HarveyHarp
268 posts
Jun 22, 2011
11:10 AM
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Some of my recent dealings with my Harmonica Customers have reenforced my belief that not all players need or will benefit from a Custom Harmonica. If the first thing you do when you get a Custom Harmonica is try to see how loud you can blow it, then you probably did not need it in the first place, and will not appreciate it.
I bought my first Customs from Jimmy Gordon, in 2000, for $75 each, and I fondly remember the note that he sent me, warning me not to blow them too hard, or they would not serve me well. I still have those harps, and they have never been apart. I guess that I sometimes forget that some people blow hard, and enjoy doing so. I feel that to really enjoy a new Custom Harmonica, that you need to start off blowing it softly, and savor the sound, the vibration, the ease of bending notes, and overblowing. Then feel the harmonica out, and see what its limits are, before you go out and thrash it. If treated right, a Custom Harmonica will last a long time. In the wrong hands, a Custom Harmonica is a nightmare, and it will sit on a shelf, and you wasted your money.
A few years ago, I did a couple of harps for a rather well know local player that I will not name (No Not Johnny Sansone),and is not on this forum and he did not like them. After he told me this, he also said that he has a set of Felisko harps, and he did not like them either. Not too long ago, he told me that he has been playing my haprs for his accoustic work, and when he plays for his own enjoyment, and that they sound great, and are lasting a long time, but he does not use them in a band situation. He wanted me to do some more harps for him, without changing the characteristics of a Stock Marine Band. I agreed to do it, and proceeded to do the non reed stuff, such as comb sealing and sanding, cover plates, etc, and just a little mild reed work to make it play a little better but retain the Classic Marine Band sound and feel. I gave him his harps at a Harmonica Club Meeting, and he seemed to like them. However, at this particular meeting, Jason Ricci was there, and Jason let him play on of his Custom Harps, which I had worked on, and this player says could I make his play like Jason's? After a few buts on my part I agreed to finish the complete customization of his harps. A few weeks passed (I have to admit that my heart was not in it) and I gave him his completed harps, at one of his gigs, and he proceeds to blow the crap out of them, and hand me a couple back later and says that they were locking up on him, and that he wants them to play like a good stock Marine Band. After I reminded him that that is what I did originally, he says that he did not remember the conversation. I opened them up pretty far, and he will be happy, but did he need my customs? No. He just needed a good Stock Marine Band.
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HarveyHarp
Last Edited by on Jun 22, 2011 11:12 AM
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apskarp
484 posts
Jun 22, 2011
11:23 AM
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Well, as I see it - stock harps are also "custom harps". The goal of the set up just is just to get a playable harp that will satisfy a large range of different players.
So they are targeted to specific market segment - just like hand made customs are. The difference is that hand made harps are targeted to individuals with different playing habits and so you can't find a general setup that would satisfy all the individuals...
That's how it goes, it's the same with all products. To take an example from high-tech business: Smartphones such as iPhone of Symbian try to move the customization work to customers who can select which applications they want to download for their phones. Lower category mobile phones have just a fixed set of features that you can't change after you byu the device..
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Tuckster
843 posts
Jun 22, 2011
11:26 AM
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I have but one custom, a Chris Michalek MB in C. It plays beautifully,responding to the slightest breath. I wanted it set up for OB's just so I could be sure it was me and not the harp if I couldn't do them. I can get the OB's, for sure. I love playing it solo in the quietness of my home. I would never gig with it in a band. It's gapped 'way too tight to be practical when the band is loud,which is almost always. It's gonna stick on me-guaranteed. What I'm looking for is a harp that plays consistently across all 10 holes. It doesn't need to be gapped super tight-that won't work for me in a gigging situation. I blow pretty hard,but not to the point where I'm blowing out harps.
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MP
1712 posts
Jun 22, 2011
11:32 AM
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i think you pretty much said it all. at least two players (very good blues guys BTW) brought me customs
'to adjust' they were not happy. heh heh. these were
sleighs and a jimmy gordon.
i didn't want to mess w/ great customizers work.
i did it anyway. i raised the gaps slightly on various blow reeds but not enough to compromise the volume. the 2 and 3 and 6 normally make them happy. sometimes the 4 and 5.
i suspect it is because they are used to dumping air
heavily and just useing harps you have to fight w/ for years and years.
oh well.
actually, i keep a few of my personal harps stock. i think the modern hohners, in general, are just fine OOB
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
Last Edited by on Jun 22, 2011 11:37 AM
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Tuckster
845 posts
Jun 22, 2011
11:57 AM
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MP-exactly! I'm used to playing Blues Harp-not a very airtight harp.You really have to work at playing them. It was such an adjustment to play Buddha's custom. Maybe if I played all custom, I could adjust. But to go from custom to playing a leaky stock BH is just too much!
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MP
1713 posts
Jun 22, 2011
12:17 PM
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yeah tuck,
not too long ago i put together a pro harp out of parts shredder sent and some of my own. it's just a blues harp with a plastic comb.
every now and then i'll leave the house with it (i can't leave home w/out a harp on me, it's like forgeting your keys) and give it hell.
then when i get to my customs it's like whooah! back off dude!
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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HarveyHarp
269 posts
Jun 22, 2011
12:22 PM
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MP, I too have adjusted numerous custom harps by other customizers, , including several of the original Harrison's and normally just open the gaps a little. I normally do not even charge to do it as long as I am doing other work for them as well. I to not like to try to change the action of someone elso's harps
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HarveyHarp
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MP
1714 posts
Jun 22, 2011
2:32 PM
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harvey,
i would have liked to play, not adjust, one of those original harrisons. everybody does things slightly
different.
but back to your question. 'really need'.
no for adam
yes for boris plotnikov
no for me, but i use 'em anyway. i mean yes! yes! err not really but okay, if you're going to twist my arm.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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Todd Parrott
523 posts
Jun 22, 2011
2:34 PM
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You are correct that some players don't need a custom harp, as I believe as BBQ Bob says, that most players play too hard.
I need custom harps for overblows and overdraws, but before I was heavy into overblows and overdraws, I had a few customized harps that still worked well for hard playing (as I used to do), and still played way better than stock harps.
These days, I'm mainly using Spiers' harps, which I must say are a very good balance, as they allow me to play hard, yet get all the overblows and overdraws, and overbends, extremely easily. I never encounter any problems with them choking or sticking, though I have adjusted my playing a little bit since I started using them a few years ago. I didn't have to adjust too much though.
I simply couldn't play what I play now without them.
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walterharp
618 posts
Jun 22, 2011
2:41 PM
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that is why joe used to offer 3 levels.. his level two is specifically set up for that hard player.. opened up cover for loudness, some tightening, but less reed work and less gapping.
if nothing else taking care of the reeds with bad tuning marks across them to weaken would make the harps last longer.
all in all if you can't play your tight custom harp at a gig, that is a pretty clear sign that you are an emotional person who gets a bit riled up when the band is cooking.. fun but hard on the tin sandwich.
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jim
867 posts
Jun 23, 2011
8:36 AM
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"Do I need a custom harmonica?"
Anyone who's asking him/herself this question:
you DON'T.
If you did - you would not doubt about that.
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Stevelegh
238 posts
Jun 23, 2011
8:47 AM
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I think everyone should own at least one custom harp. You learn a lot about what you like and don't like and generally how an instrument can perform. Before I bought some Spiers harps, I could barely gap and play the 6OB. Now I understand the technique and the mechanics, I've found a happy medium between my playing style and gapping. My non customs are not a patch on the Spiers harps tonally and volume wise, but I can now gap for overblows to suit me.
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Barry C.
270 posts
Jun 23, 2011
9:37 AM
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I own just one (Seydel 1847 customized) but it's clearly my favorite and loads better than all my OOB harps. So much more responsive...I did have to adjust to using less breath though.
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~Banned in Boston!
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Tommy the Hat
46 posts
Jun 23, 2011
10:00 AM
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I don't know much about all this but it appears to me to be similar to Guitars. SRV used to play a strat with an extra fat neck that was said to be hard to play for the average player. He also is said to have replaced the frets on his #1 (the old beat up 3 tone strat) with fat frets from a bass guitar. His strings were set high and a higher guage of 13's. Some players who have a light touch and play fast prefer their guitars set up with a low action. Others remain stock. Some get rid of the tremolo and make the guitar a hardtail while others go the other route. I guess you set up to your likes and dislikes/style of playing.
For many I'm sure a stock instrument is fine. After years of playing you may decide to tweak a little. I would suspect that first you need to know exactly how it is that "you" play though.
Tommy
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Seven times down Eight times up
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hvyj
1452 posts
Jun 23, 2011
10:30 AM
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For me, the clear advantage of custom harps is more precise accuracy on the bends. I don't OB and my customs are not set up to OB. I don't like those tight gaps at all and my customs are not gapped low. But, for example if one is playing jazz heads along with a sax player, you damn well better be able to hit bends with precise accuracy ON PITCH and this is certainly a lot easier to do with consistent accuracy using a custom harp. For me, the acid test of good intonation is playing with a horn player. FWIW.
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Diggsblues
840 posts
Jun 23, 2011
11:35 AM
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If you want to study Out of The Box by Howard Levy I
think you will need one to get good overblows.
I do them on out of the box Harps but a custom harp
just responds faster and with more body overall.
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Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind
How you doin'
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Shredder
279 posts
Jun 23, 2011
11:53 AM
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I'm not an over blower per say but I can get them. I set my harps up kind of in the middle as I play with a kind of loud Rock/ Blues band. The action is close but not to close. I can choke a reed when I get carried away but I've worked on my breath force control and can play a tighter harp now. I need a harp that dosen't loose to much air so I can hold out long single notes & draw and blow bends.
I have started lightly embossing some harps I feel are to air'y.
Thanks to MP from this fourm for educating me on how he sets up his custom harps. I was on the right track but it was nice to compair notes from another harp mechanic.
I play G/M's and S/P 20's. Mod the covers , set the action and may be lightly emboss and channel the reed plate on some holes is all I need. Like was stated before the newer G/M's and S/P 20's seem to be tighter OOTB than ones from 3 years ago.
To me gapping is the single most effective operation of improving a harp for me.But then like M/P said" It's a lot af small things added together that makes a super custom harp".
Mike
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MP
1721 posts
Jun 23, 2011
12:19 PM
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hey mike,
appreciate the kudos. chromaticblues and i have formed sort of a free masonry of two and he has given me invaluable advice along w/ tons of parts. i'm just passing on what little i know. btw, i'm buying a cherry wood comb from him for the GM plates you sent me. a little b-day present for myself.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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chromaticblues
897 posts
Jun 23, 2011
4:34 PM
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This is an interesting topic. The real answer is everyone needs a custom harp. Ask anyone that has bought one of my $44 SP20's. They aren't embossed at all. They are just setup. Anyone that plays stock harps would like there harps much more if the reeds were setup right! No you gapping them doesn't make them right. It just makes them better!
As MP stated I don't plan on bringing what I know to the grave. I love playing the harp like most of you and am glad to help and/or offer advice. I trouble shoot, repair, modify and maintain things all day 6 days a week. So for me its enjoyable to sit at the table and put some of my skills to work on something that I and other people will enjoy.
Its not easy buying custom harps. Its not easy picking the ones to buy.
The thing I can say that I believe you all will understand and this is from personnel experience is; To play custom harps you have to totally commit. Stop playing stock harps. Get customs of your favorite harps. Start there. Get good at those before you expand to different tunings and/or different types of harps. You have to simplify at first. Buy an A Bb C and D. Get good at those harps before you play out.
Last but not least not all customs are made equal!
Choose wisely!
Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2011 4:37 PM
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apskarp
486 posts
Jun 23, 2011
10:27 PM
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Now a little more pragmatic answer to the question.
I have been playing custom harps about 18 months. My total playing time with harps is about 3 years. So this is the basic data I'm coming from. I guess I'm officially an OB player nowadays, as I do use them from time to time on gigs too - and there are few licks where I use 6OB in our upcoming album.
I started with customizing my own harps with the help of Chris and about year later I got my Buddha harps. What I notice nowadays is that while it was really hard at first to get the OB's on custom harps, now I can pretty easily OB regular OOB harps too. So my embouchure has been developing while playing the customized harps.
So for me it has been musically beneficial to use custom harps and learn to play songs that require OB's - because of that I'm now able to use OB's and thus expand my playing musically.
But OB's aren't the only thing, half-valving is another area of customizing that can expand the musical abilities even further...
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groyster1
1148 posts
Jun 23, 2011
11:00 PM
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I have custom sp 20s,marine bands and 1 crossover all by members of this forum chromatic,mp and harvey harp and can testify that they play so much easier than any of my oob harps,the best of which is a suzuki hammond in Bb give these men a try and you wont have to wait light years like you do the other custom harp in question
Last Edited by on Jun 24, 2011 8:23 AM
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boris_plotnikov
572 posts
Jun 24, 2011
10:49 AM
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I really need at least gapping. I can play something on any harmonica, but hardly can play on stock harp bunch of tunes I used to play on a custom.
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Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
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Miles Dewar
977 posts
Jun 25, 2011
9:42 PM
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My harmonicas break too fast to buy a custom.
Plus all the usual Drama from customizer's Beliefs just constantly leaves a horrible taste in my mouth. It's like hearing a really Bad salesman. A Non-Closer. Sickening......
I would like to check out that $44 one some time. Very reasonable price.
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jim
872 posts
Jun 25, 2011
10:31 PM
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you need to spend at least 5-6 hours with the reedwork. Count the expenses based on that idea.
You can also watch my "Custom Harp Uncut 1" series and see for yourself what it takes to make one. Over 8 hours of full-length video.
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apskarp
487 posts
Jun 25, 2011
11:17 PM
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actually the time & effort required to make a custom harp varies greatly. It can take 40+ hours if one goes to the depths Chris used to go - or it can take just 1-2 hours like some other customizers do.. It all depends what is done and what is the quality of work intended.
I use just 1-2 hours with my own harps and they play well for my own needs. Of course I have the advantage of being able to work with the harp during the whole life-span so I don't have to try to get everything right from the start..
Actually I think it would be best that people would just learn these things themselves so they can be sure the harps play according their of preferences. The top customizers high-end harps can be used to the full potential only by the top players..
The whole idea of a word "custom" is that it is made by individual specs. Still that word seems to be used as a synonym for "high-end". It's a confusion of a usage of language. Hand-made high-end harps with optimized tolerances and setup vs. Customized harps for individual needs. We talk about the latter whereas the discussion is actually about the first..
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apskarp
488 posts
Jun 25, 2011
11:33 PM
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In fewer words: It's a good custom harp if it fits your needs. If you need a high-end harp to do stuff like Howard it takes time to make one and the costs are higher. If you need something "less" it might only take 1-2 hours to do the job and so the cost is smaller.
The luckiest players don't need anything but a OOB harp with some minor gapping - 20min work.. :)
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Brother Tuck
36 posts
Jun 25, 2011
11:39 PM
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Miles Dewar
978 posts
Jun 26, 2011
12:45 AM
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Lmao Tuck!
Your pictures are beginning to become Epic. I'm still laughing over the Cenile Gussow one.
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---Go Chicago Bears!!!---
Last Edited by on Jun 26, 2011 12:45 AM
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Big Daddy Ray
12 posts
Jul 21, 2011
4:29 AM
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Need? Not necessarily. Want? Yes. Much like a nice car. It is nice straight from the dealership but there are certain things you can do to make it run smoother and more efficiently so why not?
I only have one and it is one that Randy Sandoval worked on. I am very fortunate to live fairly close to him. It was my GM in the key of G that I had just recently purchased at the time and he did a lot of reed work on it and got it in tune and put one his awesome combs on it. Once he started messing with it we both realized that it was way out of tune straight out of the box.
Overall he spent 6-8 hours on it.Part of it being so time consuming was the fact that it was a low key harp which takes more work sometimes because of the thicker reeds.
Having done lots of reading on the net as well as chatting on sites such as Harmonica Space before it died down I knew to be careful with my harps because I did not want to blow out any harps like I heard so many beginners do.
The first thing I did was find out just how little breath it would take to sound the reeds. they actually sounded a couple inches before the harp got to my lips as a result of the air coming out of my nose. Needless to say the customized harp took very little breath to get good volume and tone from compared to before.
Knowing how much work can go into customizing, and realizing there was so much more he could do which would take many more hours, the money charged for these customized harps is more than worth it.
There are simple things anyone can do to make your harps perform a little better but if you can ever afford it get at least one custom harp. You will never regret it. Just treat it right when you get it. There is no need to blow like Dizzy blew his horns making his face blow up like a puffer fish!
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scojo
263 posts
Jul 21, 2011
8:07 PM
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As an OB/OD player, I can't imagine playing without customs (lately the very nice Seydel 1847 harps that Buddha customized and HarpNinja made play even better). It's not that I can't OB/OD without them... It's that I can do everything, including overbends, much more smoothly, effortlessly and transparently with a good custom.
I wasn't always an overbend player, but even then, a good custom helped me play better. But I don't know that it made as much of a difference as it does now.
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colman
55 posts
Jul 24, 2011
4:00 AM
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there is no magic mojo to have any harp player do it to it, work is the learning curve.basic reed set up should be part of harpin.guitar players most like know how to set up there instrument.as do most other players of any instrument.SET it up then play your a$$ off,why is there more set up talk here than playing.all the best set up harps are not gonna have any body get the sound of the players of 50`s and 60`s
and i`m sure all they did was adjust the reeds a little."shut up and play your harp" is the quickest way to learn,any thing else is secondary. have fun.......
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kudzurunner
2617 posts
Jul 24, 2011
4:21 AM
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@scojo: That word "effortlessly" is a tricky word when deployed in blues contexts. Some people--many people, perhaps--would argue that SOME effort is a good thing where the blues are concerned. That's why the grimace is part of the blues gestural vocabulary, along with drops of sweat. They harken back to the blues' origins in field labor. What would Honeyboy Edwards have said to a guitar tech who promised him an axe that performed "smoothly, effortlessly, and transparently"?
I produce a better sound, frankly, when I have to fight for it a little. I used a range of harps on the album I've just finished tracking--stock MB's, several Crossovers, and two of Joe Spiers' harps. They each have their advantages. Ah: and because my Bb's had blown out, I used one other harp--black plastic comb but MB coverplates--that somebody had given me several years ago and that I'd never used. I didn't have time to set it up. It was sticky on a couple of notes, even after I tweaked it slightly, and those slightly flubbed notes are a part of the recording. I actually responded, in the recording, to the flubbish notes by playing differently, more loudly, in an effort to clear the harp.
Sterling Magee, for what it's worth, strung his guitar with heavy jazz strings--not the light, smooth, effortless rock strings that are "easier to play." He developed unbelievable calluses on his fretting hand, and he could do dizzyingly fast and complicated AND soulful stuff on that guitar. Effort of the right sort can be a key part of the blues vocabulary, the blues method. There are many roads to excellence. There's nothing wrong with the customizer's art, nor with people who swear allegiance to custom harps, unless they begin to claim that their way is the one best way for everybody, in all circumstances. Then they become fundamentalists. I'm sure you're not that. I'm just saying.
Last Edited by on Jul 24, 2011 4:25 AM
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groyster1
1201 posts
Jul 24, 2011
6:57 AM
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@kudzu
if you were performing live I bet no one could tell whether you were playing your stock MB or one of joes custom harps-it would be the same music only easier to play joes custom jobs
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Cristal Lecter
77 posts
Jul 24, 2011
7:10 PM
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Hi every body:
I can see 3 possible scenari here:
1) You're a chicago/folk blues traditional player and you don't want to play anything else, then I would say you don't need a customised instrument, as long as it plays, it doesn't really matter...I don't think that Sonny Boy Williamson, Sonny Terry or Little Walter were looking particularly to this part of the problem.
2) You're a Chicago blues player but you're capable of playing with velocity, invention and you want to sail on "unusual type of harmony on some songs, then yes the customisation is a necessary step...Getting these harmonicas from customisers is a good idea, but after 5 years of intensive playing and trying to find some answers,I think the best customiser would be YOURSELF, because we've all a different morphology and a different way of bending, then it makes sense to adapt your instrument to you (and now vice versa)
3) You're a full, accomplished musician and you want and can play ANY kind of music from Jazz fusion (Sébastien Charlier), concertos (Howard Levy) you name it.....: Then even more YES you need a Ferrari to responds straight away to the very slight breath or bend/overbend. It's not a surprise to know that the harmonicas of the masters of the modern way of playing the diatonic, are set up extremely tight....
Since in this world, nothing is black and white but shades of grey, there're some harmonica musicians that are able to play anything on any harmonica and sounding great (Howard Levy confesses that he has began to set up his harps 15 years after he "discovered the over bends).
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Never try to be as good as someone else, succeed to be the best player you can be!
Last Edited by on Jul 24, 2011 7:15 PM
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Matzen
188 posts
Jul 24, 2011
7:39 PM
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"set up should be part of harpin. Guitar players most likely know how to set up there instrument. As do most other players of any instrument."
I found learning how to set up a guitar (and other intruments) fairly easy. The harmonica on the other hand has been quite a hassle to set up! I am still tring to figure out how to gap correctly (which is really all I am interested in at this point), and having trouble with that! There seems to be a lot more "detailed" information out there on setting up other instruments, but not the harp. Most everything I have been able to find has been quite vague! Sometimes I feel as though (some) people "in the know" don't want to share their techniques?
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Last Edited by on Jul 24, 2011 7:41 PM
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Big Daddy Ray
23 posts
Jul 25, 2011
7:03 AM
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Matzen. There are a load of customization tip videos on Youtube.
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Matzen
190 posts
Jul 25, 2011
7:59 PM
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I've checked most of them out. I have found some helpful vids, but I've also found some videos that seem to contradict what is said in others. Also, some seem to leave out small but important bits of information.
I guess what I am trying to say is... at least for me (and I think for others), trying improve a harmonica seems like some sort of great mystery! I understand how to seal a comb, open backs, tune and such, it's just the tweaking of the reeds that seems quite difficult. I guess I just need to keep messing up harps until I figure it out!
Last Edited by on Jul 25, 2011 8:08 PM
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Big Daddy Ray
27 posts
Jul 25, 2011
8:21 PM
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Yea.They can't give it all away :)
Some you have to learn by experimentation.
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Sarge
65 posts
Jul 25, 2011
8:26 PM
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The type of music I play certainly doesn't require custom harps, but I have them anyway. I guess just cause I wanted them.
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
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chromaticblues
941 posts
Jul 26, 2011
3:51 AM
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Cristal is right about anyone that is serious about becomeing a great harp player would be better off learning how to do it themselves.
The pro of this is indipendent of customizers and there fees.
The con is man does it take a long time to get good at it! If your not in a hurry and you want to get better, but your harps are holding you back then now is the time to start taking some of your harps apart and figure out why some work well and why others don't. You need to do this from reed to reed. What I found was the better I got at working on them the better I got at playing good harps. Then the better I got at playing the more I demanded from my harps which made me make better harps.
I never would have gotten to the level of harp playing I'm at (and I'm not done) if it wasn't for figuring it all out!
@Matzen Figure out where you are with your level of playing and covey that to a customizer and buy a harp. Then take the covers off and look with a magnifying glass to see what was done. Then try to duplicate it. If you want to learn it bad enough you will.
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kudzurunner
2626 posts
Jul 26, 2011
4:20 AM
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I'm so old-school that I think of a Hohner Crossover as a custom harp!
I pretty much agree with the tenor of Cristal's three-part analysis. But when it comes to blues, where aggressive bends are a part of what's happening, I'll continue to maintain that there's something to be said for a slightly stiffer harp--more stiffly-sprung, you might say. Race cars have harsh rides. They're anything but butter smooth. They're extremely responsive but also brutally harsh, because they're so stiffly sprung.
The thing is, harp "rides" don't parse like that. You can have a beautifully responsive and expensive harp with very low tolerances that is amazing for jazz playing, but it's not necessarily the best thing for gutbucket playing--just as a Ford Indy car won't necessarily win the dirt-track race.
I picked up a stock MB in A yesterday and realized, as I began to play it, that I've been spending too much time with better harps (Crossover & custom) and my chops had weakened. After half an hour of very hard playing, I'd started to come back into form. Working with a stock harp, working all your bends, forces you to develop great lip strength. That's a GOOD THING. People on this forum underestimate how important it is. Talk to an upright bass player. Better yet, try playing an upright bass. It takes a tremendous amount of strength. Once you practice and develop that strength, an electric bass is child's play. The warm rich sound of an upright is a function, in part, of how thick the strings are, how heavy the action is (relative to an electric guitar, for example), how much effort it takes to play.
Super light guitar strings may be easier to play, quicker and smoother in some ways, and certainly much easier to bend, but they don't necessarily have the best tone. Some good tone, especially in blues, is a function of how much effort it takes to create the sound.
I took out a brand new Crossover in D yesterday. MUCH easier to play than the MB I've been working with. It will let me compensate for weaknesses in my technique--in my lip-strength, I should say. But I'll be a better player on BOTH harps if I've spent time on the cheaper, stiffer harp, learning how to make it do my bidding.
Again: if you're playing Howard Levy / Carlos del Junco style stuff, if that's what you want to be doing, you can feel free to ignore what I'm saying. My point is simply this: there are always tradeoffs. Some of the best things are worth working for, and this holds true for tone on the harmonica. One element of that "work" is the sheer physical strength it takes to produce a good tone on a sub-optimal instrument. This doesn't mean that one should avoid the modern world and its improvements. It does mean, though, that 90% of the world's great literature was composed in longhand, with pen and paper, not on word processors; that the greatest runners in the world come from the poorest countries in the world (Kenya and Ethiopia, where the standard of living is a couple of dollars a day), and that 95% of the blues sounds that most of us claim to love were made on stock harmonicas.
Optimization is a good thing, but don't assume that it only consists of technological improvements. A lot of great stuff has been accomplished on supposedly "sub-optimal" equipment.
It's fun to be a gear-head, but don't confuse a passion for gear with the much larger and more challenging discipline of becoming a musician. You can spend all the money you want on the latest, most expensive and hot-rodded harps, and it will help your musicianship only incrementally. The musician you are, or aren't, will still shine through. It's like somebody with dreams of becoming a professional bike racer who buys THE most exotic Cannondale for $25K. What they really need to be doing is putting in hours of training every day, for a period of years. They can do that on a much less expensive bike, and come closer to achieving their dream.
But it's very tempting to think, "If I spend X amount of money on the thing that the pros--or most of the pros--are using, it will immediately vault me that much closer to achieving my dream."
Not true. The journey to accomplished musicianship is indeed a journey. The pros took a long time to end up with the particular instrument that they're now using to make great music. Scratch a master musician and you'll almost always find somebody who spent quite a bit of time using sub-optimal equipment. Working with and through that sub-optimal gear was an absolutely essential part of their developmental process.
Last Edited by on Jul 26, 2011 4:35 AM
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hvyj
1612 posts
Jul 26, 2011
5:02 AM
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With most stock harps the player does have to fight the harp more. I'm not so convinced that this is necessarily a good thing.
For an accomplished player with well developed technique (like Adam) fighting the harp may strengthen chops. But a less accomplished player who has to fight the harp in order to make it sound right may never actually develop refined technique because he may be too preoccupied struggling to make the harp do what he wants it to do that he never develops precision by learning to do exactly what is necessary to get the desired response.
If you know what to do, fighting the harp may develop strength of technique. But for a player who are in the process of figuring out what to do, IMHO, having to fight the harp only makes the learning process more difficult and confusing. But, YMMV.
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colman
58 posts
Jul 26, 2011
5:48 AM
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I want to have and use both,MB with higher gap reeds and also tighter gap reeds.harps set up for OB etc. seem to need a lighter touch in order to get best responce.a harp set up with higher reeds lets you get a big fat honk tone ,and my using a OB set harp the bent note seems to be thinner although nice sounding.
look at some of the fat honking tone James Cotton
got on recordings in the 60`s i`m still amazed.when you go into the chromatic choices of notes you are going out of original blues singing and it becomes another musical form.james cotton was playing those few blues notes with gospel fervor.also look at
Albert King playing a few blues notes but he was singing the blues,its great to have many types of music and i`ll mess with them all but when i play the blues i`ll sing it with those few notes,i`ts a language,speaking in tongues...have fun.
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groyster1
1213 posts
Jul 26, 2011
6:52 AM
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theres no doubt I can accomplish more on the few custom harps I have or suzuki manjis or hammond but as far as practice goes I use big rivers or even johnsons which are certainly not as strong as marine bands but if I want to sound my best jamming I will take the customs with me
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HarpNinja
1531 posts
Jul 26, 2011
6:59 AM
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All harps would benefit greatly from just gapping. Beyond that, it is a toss up based on playing style. For me, it would be a huge bummer to only play stock harps.
IMO, most beginners who are just getting a handle on bending would benefit greatly from playing a really nice harp. That doesn't mean the best in the world, but a harp that is at least airtight and well gapped.
If you are wanting to overbend, I think it is CRUCIAL to try a well set-up harp. That can range from well gapped/profiled, to all out custom, but I can point to a number of examples where a harp has been otherwise butchered but can overbend and it creates a lot of bad habits and sounds.
I also think, for most players, having top of the line customs is overkill in all keys. At least half my builds have been for semi-pro to fulltime musicians...I get why you'd want them at that point. But for me personally, I can do the majority of my gigs on 5 or fewer harps. Buying 12 customs would be a waste of money.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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groyster1
1216 posts
Jul 26, 2011
9:38 AM
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@ninja
yes I dont need an F# or Db custom it would really be a waste of money
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hvyj
1614 posts
Jul 26, 2011
10:41 AM
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Well, it depends. F natural minor in fifth position requires a Db harp and that is a key that gets called often enough that i do use a Db harp. Bb natural minor also gets called for which I use an F# harp in fifth position. But these keys don't get called very often at blues jams.
But for the kinds of music I play in those keys precision bending to pitch is usually important, so i have customs in each of those keys and they do get used.
Last Edited by on Jul 26, 2011 10:51 AM
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JInx
17 posts
Jul 26, 2011
12:22 PM
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Do I need a good consistent embrasure to appreciate a custom harp? Or will a good custom help me develop one?
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jonlaing
292 posts
Jul 26, 2011
12:41 PM
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@JInx I think you'll get a mix of opinions on that one, but for me, I think I had a fairly decent embouchure before my custom, but my custom has helped me develop it further, and now I even play my non-customs better as a result.
On a side note, I was already an avid overblower before my first custom, which I got all of a couple weeks ago (built by Mike Fugazzi). It was a bit of an adjustment to relearn my embouchure, but again, once I started getting used to it, I played all of my stock harps better.
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walterharp
660 posts
Jul 26, 2011
12:44 PM
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It is easier to learn to overblow and overdraw on a custom. if it is not working you know it is your fault, not the way the harp is set up. not to say you must have one to do it
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