didjcripey
106 posts
Jun 28, 2011
11:44 PM
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I have just been given (yes, given; they don't call me 'Lucky' for nothing) a Fender Super Reverb. It needs a bit of TLC and is going to be a project, and I wondered if anyone had any opinions on its suitability as a harp amp?
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Lucky Lester
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5F6H
752 posts
Jun 29, 2011
3:54 AM
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Well all models of amp vary somewhat, due to changes in production run & manufacturing tolerances, but a Super Reverb is typically a VERY suitable harp amp.
Make sure that is properly serviced, if the old handwired version, with good power supply caps. So long as you are happy with the weight of the amp, there is no good reason to ever let it go. Congratulations!
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hvyj
1458 posts
Jun 29, 2011
4:34 AM
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Assuming it is a black face (or a Reissue) this is an EXCELLENT harp amp. The dry channel has a much different tone than the reverb channel. You need to really experiment with the tone control settings in order to get the amp dialed in. Putting casters (wheels) on it is not a bad idea given its size and weight.
I have a Reissue. This is the preamp tube configuration I like for this amp: Three JJ ECC81's (12AT7's) in V1, V2 and V3, two JJ ECC83S's (12AX7's) for V4 and V5 and one JJ ECC832 (12DW7) for the phase inverter in V6. The Reissue is spec'd with 12AT7's in V3 and V6 and 12AX7's in V1, V2, V4 and V5 stock. For the remaining tubes I use: JJ GZ37 rectifier tube and a matched pair of JJ 6L6GC's in a hotter grade for power tubes. I really like JJ tubes. I plug into the #2 input of whatever channel I use. Absolutely my favorite tube amp for harp.
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2011 4:39 AM
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JTThirty
129 posts
Jun 29, 2011
7:36 AM
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Rick Estrin used a Super Reverb for a long, long time.
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Ricky B
www.bushdogblues.blogspot.com
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barbequebob
1684 posts
Jun 29, 2011
7:44 AM
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I had one that I bought in 1977 who bought it brand new in 1965. Back in the 70's, the 4 most desired amps for harp were all Fender, the 4-10 Tweed Bassman, Super Reverb, Twin reverb, and 4-10 tan Concert Amp.
The original SR has a much better reverb thank than what's in them now. Like a Twin, it weighs like a ton of bricks because of the reverb and tremelo in it.
The one I had, I sold it in 1983 to get the 4-10 Bassman that I still own to this day. I paid $300 in '77 and sold it for the same price back then to a guitar player who still uses it now, but has told me it was often too loud for some of the gigs he played.
If I knew how the vintage market was gonna be and had the cash to keep it back then, I'd have made an easy extra $1200 if I had sold it now.
The originals used either CTS or Oxford made speakers wheras the RI's uses the P10R Jensen RI speakers (the originals NEVER had those).
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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HarpNinja
1494 posts
Jun 29, 2011
8:44 AM
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It is a piece of junk. Ship it off to me and I'll take it off your hands. ;)
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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toddlgreene
3084 posts
Jun 29, 2011
8:49 AM
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This thread had me searching fleabay for Fender Super Reverbs, and I happened upon this bad motorscooter:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Fender-1975-Super-Six-Reverb-Amplifier-Excellent-/140569657256?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20ba9abfa8
Wonder how great it would be for harp? Would it roar like a HarpKing? I do know that my back hurts just thinking about moving it.
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Todd L. Greene
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hvyj
1459 posts
Jun 29, 2011
10:02 AM
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@BBQ Bob, I don't think there's much difference between the reverb tank in the original black face and the Reissue. I never had a black face SR but once upon a time I did have an original black face Princeton Reverb. Now I have a Princeton Reissue. Not much difference between them.
I've played through original BF SRs (although not extensively) and I didn't really hear any difference between the reverb in them and the reverb in my Super Reverb Reissue. The biggest difference between the originals and the Reissues is that the sound and tone of the Reissues is more consistent. The originals would vary somewhat from amp to amp and sometimes from time to time even using the same amp.
Some of the newer Fender tube amps like the Blues Jr. and the various Devilles have sold state reverb drivers and solid state rectifiers. But the Super Reverb Reissue and the Princeton Reverb Reissue have tube driven reverb and tube rectifiers, just like the originals. No point to point wiring in these reissues, though.
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2011 10:22 AM
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5F6H
753 posts
Jun 29, 2011
10:22 AM
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There's no difference between the reverb circuits between the 60's BF & the RI, however reverb tanks were always variable & nowadays seem to be less consistent and many complain that the newer tanks are prone to being bright & overly "boingy".
There are alternative tanks to the 2 spring, like the 3 spring, short decay tank, plus there is the 1Meg dwell resistor in the circuit (R26 on the RI, pins 2 & 7 of 12AT7 reverb driver tube), which can be reduced to tame the reverb somewhat. Gerald Weber also popularised the trick where the reverb out RCA is fed back into the normal channel #1 input, making the normal channel controls reverb & tone controls on the wet effect.
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2011 10:23 AM
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hvyj
1460 posts
Jun 29, 2011
10:32 AM
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@5F6H: I've heard about routing the reverb through the dry channel, but have never really seen a clear explanation of how it's done. If you know, can you post an explanation? Aren't the dry channel and reverb channel out of phase with one another?
As far as "boingy" goes, in my experience, how the tone controls (and, of course, the reverb control) are set has a significant effect on that. It's one of the things one has to pay attention to when dialing in the amp. All tank reverbs do have some "boing," though. But I like the depth one gets from tube driven reverb. And you can run a touch of subtle delay into the reverb for really nice dimension that sounds particularity good for harp.
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2011 10:44 AM
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5F6H
754 posts
Jun 29, 2011
11:18 AM
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There are 2 RCA cables running to the reverb tank, the "reverb input" cable, sending the tapped preamp signal to the tank & the "reverb output" cable feeding the reverb signal back to the reverb output RCA.
Replace the RCA to RCA reverb output cable with 6' of guitar cord with a right angled RCA plug (or a thin cable with a straight, short RCA plug...so it all still fits in the tank bag) at the tank end and a regular 1/4" jack at the other. Instead of plugging the cable back into the reverb output jack, you now plug the 1/4" into the Normal #1, you use Vibrato #1 for the harp mic.
If you find a 1/4" to RCA converter plug you can hook it all up as stock if required...though the adaptor may stick out the back of the amp some, so remove before transporting the amp.
In parallel (when daisy chaining the inputs) yes, the 2 channels are out of phase & signal level drops off, but this method dosn't suffer the same phase cancellation.
Boingyness - yes, all tanks have some "boing" but nowadays it seems to take more cherry picking to get a warm, lush tank. Some vendors have even stopped selling the accutronics tanks because of this.
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2011 11:32 AM
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didjcripey
107 posts
Jun 29, 2011
3:09 PM
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Thanks for the responses guys. @Harp ninja, its in the mail.
It is one big, heavy bastard, but I am sick of being drowned out by the guys I play with, so it should be good till I can find some more reasonable musicians. Its not a reissue, but an original silverface. Rats have destroyed one of the speaker cones and some speaker wires, but otherwise it appears mostly intact; I'm sure there will be some work and expense involved in getting it up to scratch, but I now feel confident its worth it.
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Lucky Lester
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hvyj
1461 posts
Jun 29, 2011
3:34 PM
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"I am sick of being drowned out by the guys I play with, so it should be good till I can find some more reasonable musicians"
It's not so much a matter of "reasonable" as it is a matter of balance. For example, the guitar player in my band got a custom Fuques guitar amp with two 12s. (GREAT sounding amp, btw.) I could easily keep up with him volume wise using my SWR Baby Baby Blue bass amp, but that amp has one 10 and the guitar had a lot more presence because his two 12s were moving so much more air. So i started using my Super Reverb (four 10s) and everything is nicely balanced. In my band we don't like to mic any amps unless we are micing all the amps. Why? Same reason: Balance.
If you get your SR tubed right and dialed in properly so you don't get feedback you WILL be able to be heard and hear yourself. Much better over all sound`, IMHO, than the "use a small amp and mic it" concept. The SR gives you real depth of tone and as much authority as you need or want. Use it wisely, though, or the stage volume may get even more out of control.
Put casters on it for sure.
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bonedog569
349 posts
Jun 29, 2011
5:09 PM
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@todd I've got one of those - an orphaned head actually. Back of the garage sale find ten years ago - $15. It is a 100watt amp w/ 4 6l6's - basically a twin reverb but with six speakers. I put it in as twin cab and was using it for a while with harp. Heavy as hell but a powerfull sound. I don't think of it as an ideal harp amp though - more into the little valco's and gibsons these days.
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5F6H
758 posts
Jun 30, 2011
3:42 AM
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@ Todd re. Super 6 - "Wonder how great it would be for harp? Would it roar like a HarpKing? I do know that my back hurts just thinking about moving it."
As Bonedog says, it's a Twin Reverb chassis mated to 6x10, the 6x10" cab has casters down the side...you could always split it into a separate head & cab. Apparently Bill Clarke used one before he got a tweed bassman. No, it won't sound like a Harpking...there's more to the Harpking sound than 4 or 6x 10" speakers. Nevertheless, just like the Twin Reverb/Dual Showman Reverb heads, it can make a good amp for harp.
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jnorem
1 post
Jan 24, 2014
7:48 PM
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I have a 69 Super Reverb that I've just had reconditioned, meaning a cap and tube job, basically. It's suddenly very loud, and the harp tone is pretty mediocre. I'm thinking a guitar player would love this amp.
I also noticed that I can't turn it up without it feeding back as much as I used to. It seems that fixing this amp has screwed it up.
The pots used to scratch, it was a noisy, cranky old bastard, but it sounded great when I used it. I run an Astatic JT30 through it.
The tech I took it too is the real thing, he knows his stuff. So there's that. My question is, are there any modifications that could be made to the amp to make it more "harp-friendly?"
Thanks,
J
Last Edited by jnorem on Jan 24, 2014 7:53 PM
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Greg Heumann
2572 posts
Jan 24, 2014
8:07 PM
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I just worked on an SR for a friend. Before I did my thing, it was a feedback monster - couldn't get volume to 2, runaway feedback - very uncontrollable. I put a 12AU7 in the phase inverter spot (last preamp tube before the power section) and now you can get both normal and reverb channel volume knobs to 5/6. It didn't hurt the reverb or vibrato. Changed V1 to a 12AY7 and made the normal channel even friendlier - volume at 7. Done.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
Last Edited by Greg Heumann on Jan 24, 2014 8:08 PM
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jimr
60 posts
Jan 24, 2014
8:27 PM
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jnorem
Servicing your SR may have returned the power supply voltages to normal, to the detriment of suitability for harmonica. You could use a 5U4 or 5R4 rectifier to drop the voltage to everything. (Mark Burness might disagree and instead suggest biasing the power tubes very cold)
Also reduce the plate voltage of the preamp section by increasing the value of the last power supply resistor. The first stage preamp tube plate voltage is 270V according to the AB763 schematic. I think about 125V on a 12AX7 sounds best for harmonica.
Jim
Last Edited by jimr on Jan 24, 2014 8:28 PM
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jnorem
2 posts
Jan 24, 2014
8:42 PM
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Nice, I wasn't expecting such quick responses! Thank you, guys.
I'm going to run these past my tech. The thing I'm missing is a sort of high and tight treble with just a hint of distortion, which this amp used to provide.
Very much appreciated, fellows.
J
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5F6H
1737 posts
Jan 25, 2014
6:06 AM
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Jnorem, did the tech just clean the scratchy volume pots, or replace them? If he replaced them, ask if he used Alpha 1MegA pots (also available from Mouser - brass coloured pot bodies, metal shaft, very smooth feel - why people like them). These pots often have a very fast taper & make dialling in your volume a pain - CTS 1MA pots are a slower taper.
If the amp was good before, serviced & running at the same spec, it will still be good. They do get a bit "loose" when unserviced for very long periods, but this is not what they are meant to sound like, nor what they sounded like when new.
JimR has a point in that the amp is now probably running closer to design & a little tighter. Indeed, I'd try playing with colder bias (reduces feedback, adds crunch) but as long as your bias is between 8mA & 33mA (hotter = smoother, chimier, but not burning anything up) per tube it's a matter of taste, like how you set a middle pot, or any other.
As you say the amp is "very loud", this suggests you have volume to spare, so I'd agree with JimR that a softer rectifier might work in your case. Usually it's the other way around...people want more volume.
I like the cheap Russian 5881WXT, these are tough as old boots and have less gain than most other 6L6 tubes (at the same bias).
It may be worth asking the tech if he noted what the bias was when he received the amp, he may have "fixed" this if it was cool.
I think he probably did a good job on your amp, just a few things that would be essential/normal for good operation with guitar (high bias, faster pots, gainy tubes in preamp & power amp)aren't so good for harp.
+1 on the suggestion to drop preamp voltage, I like 170vdc +/-20vdc on a 12AX7 in V1/V2 with this kind of amp (a little less on a bassman)...but as with bias, this is something that can largely be tuned by ear, by the tech.
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www.myspace.com/markburness
http://www.facebook.com/markburness
Last Edited by 5F6H on Jan 25, 2014 6:11 AM
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Barley Nectar
254 posts
Jan 26, 2014
6:20 PM
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OK, got some time to comment. I have a 76 SR here that was near a basket case when I bought it. Chassis needed freshened. Cab was a mess. Grill stretcher busted all to hell. The whole thing had a thick film of nicotine, cab looked brown!
I rebuilt the chassis and did a few mods. Some of this needs to be reversed so I won't comment on that.
Cosmetics: Fender tolex is tough stuff. After disassembly I scrubbed the cab with Comet and a stiff brush until it rinsed clean and was back to black. Next glued down loose tolex with Dap contact cement. This is only good on small areas as the cement will cause the cloth backing to separate on vintage tolex. Elmers carpenter cement works also but you may have to clamp or tape large repairs. After you get tags and loose seams glued use a black magic marker to touch up spots. Wipe marker spots with a rag to blend in while still wet.
If the amp now looks pretty good get some Murphys oil soap and mix with warm water as directed. Slather this on the tolex and let dry. Next buff, the cab with a towel to a mild luster. It will not be shinny and slippery like STP Son of a Gun leaves it. The Murphys gives a more correct tolex finish. NICE.
If the cab looks crappy, break out the black shoe polish and go to it. Buff with a good shoe brush as the Army taught recruts. You will be amazed at the results.
Chrome stuff will clean up nicely with "Bar Keepers Helper" available at grocery and hardware stores. The Murphy's soap will stop corrosion from coming back on chrome after cleaning.
Murphys works well on grill cloth also. Grill cloth is made of plastic. First vaccume the grill with a brush attachment to remove dust. Mix Murphy's as directed and gently massage this into the grill cloth using a clean naturel hair brush. I use a small round shoe polish applicator brush, clean ofcorse. Rinse with a damp towel. Avoid soaking the grill and stretcher to avoid warpage of the frame. Let air dry and buff gently with a dry towel. This shines up the logo too. Murphy's soap will restore the color of the grill but it will still look vintage. If the grill cloth is baggy in spots a hair dryer will shrink it and tighten it. Not too much heat though, go easy.
I have used these methods many times on tolex amps, works great. Good luck with the SR, heck of an amp...BN
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Jan 26, 2014 6:26 PM
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jnorem
6 posts
Jan 27, 2014
4:39 PM
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My god, the wealth of info on this thread alone is enough to recommend this forum to anyone who plays blues harp.
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Barley Nectar
257 posts
Jan 27, 2014
5:58 PM
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LOL, I hardly ever play blues. The fastest way to empty a bar around here is to play blues...BN
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jnorem
7 posts
Jan 28, 2014
4:21 PM
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"LOL, I hardly ever play blues. The fastest way to empty a bar around here is to play blues…BN"
Interesting. What do you usually play?
Last Edited by jnorem on Jan 28, 2014 4:22 PM
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Barley Nectar
263 posts
Jan 29, 2014
9:28 AM
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Light Rock, new wave country, bluegrass, folk, alternative, reggae, funk, rockabilly. I have even played metal much to the amazement of some young guys, LOL. No jazz though, I can't follow it on the small harp. This is the beauty of being a full time jammer, you play what the leader selects.
Went to a jam at North Country Brewery last night up in Slippery Rock PA. Sat in with three different players by invitation. I heard one blues song all night and it was an original.
I really get annoyed when people think that the harmonica is only suited to blues. I have been bucking this sentiment for years! I realize this is a blues forum but our instrument is suited to all types of music. A good player can make it sound like a horn, accordion, bagpipe, flute, organ, tuba, screemin freekin Les Paul thru a Marshall stack and yes it can sound like a harmonica. The sky is the limit...BN
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1847
1484 posts
Jan 29, 2014
9:40 AM
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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jnorem
8 posts
Jan 30, 2014
4:31 PM
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That's almost unbelievable, but he really does sound like that. Of course, he's got a huge array of effects pedals and stomp boxes to help him achieve that Jimi-plays-harp sound. That's just amazing.
I'd love to see what effects gear he's using. I saw a photo where it appeared he was playing an XB-40.
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MagicPauley57
158 posts
Jan 31, 2014
9:01 AM
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Im fortunate to own an original '66 blackface super reverb.
Its a great harp amp, originally i bought for guitar, but i play harp on the normal channel as i keep the other for guitar, so i can leave the settings ready
Yes it's a bit big and heavy, but the valve rectifier gives it the sag that sometimes is lacking on the vibrolux.
Some of the reissues can be a bit temperamental, i know a friend who has had a great time with one, and another whos had it back and forth ro the shop with loads of niggly problems.
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Kingley
3421 posts
Jan 31, 2014
9:39 AM
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The Super Reverb is a bitchin' harp amp. Rick Estrin used one for about 25 years, so that should tell you something about them.
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1847
1485 posts
Jan 31, 2014
11:38 AM
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if i remember correctly, robert lucas used one
is that one in this video?
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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jnorem
23 posts
Feb 04, 2014
4:14 PM
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After playing around with various settings, I've come across two that sound quite good, a real straight-from-the-amp electric sound.
Normal side, channel 2:
Bright off, volume 4.5, treble 6, bass 10.
Vibrato side, channel 2:
Bright on, volume 8, treble 2.5, middle 3.5, bass 0.
Those are pretty damn loud, but I'd like to squeeze a bit more volume out of it. The sound, though, is just how I like it. The real test, of course, is using with band.
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Rubes
792 posts
Feb 05, 2014
1:57 AM
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@ Barley Nectar...........right on man!
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Old Man Rubes at Reverbnation
Dads in Space at Reverbnation
Benny and Rubes at Reverbnation
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