If you mean to make your entire income from playing, it's ridiculously hard. Remember Adam has a day job.
There was a great post by Jason about what it takes and what it does to you and what sacrifices you need to be prepared to make. It was a seriously jaded and cynical post. Hopefully someone will be able to post the link.
*edit* ha! that's it right there - Honkin' beat me to it while I was typing!
Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2011 1:35 PM
Becoming a pro harmonica player is virtually impossible. Only a few select players achieve that goal. The reality is that it's harder now than it's ever been to become a pro musician, let alone a pro harmonica player.
Here's a link to the article by Jason that MrV mentioned. Jason Ricci - Stay in College
Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2011 1:41 PM
I would not use Jason as an example-Jay Gaunt and Josh King-16 and 12 I think their respective ages-will be pros,will stay in college,and have learned from some of the top pros. They have the backing of record lables,their parents watchfull eye,and support from some of the top musicians in the USA and Europe. You have to have an IN through the music business,and some money to get started. You also need a good booking agent,and a good financial advisor,along with a good lawyer. Jay has already established himself,touring the states and Europe,and cutting two full length CD's.
It was a year ago this week that I was first payed to play with a band. I've played 5 more paying gigs since for a grand total in earnings of of $490.00.
Take away gas to practice and to gigs, minus what I spent on food and drink at the perkless places.....The amp, the custom harps, the mics, the time consumed, and my better halfs bads days because of it all.
How close am I getting to turning pro?...lol
I do imagine it is tough for a young man that decides early on in life to blow harp for a living. We need to suppot and promote kids like Brandon and Alex.
I'm loving every minute of my harp experience. A local Monday night blues jam got so good that the owner of the place invited us to do it this Friday night when the place is always packed. Nobody gets paid, but we have a blast.
I do try my best to see every pro harp player that comes near east TN, buy CD,s and attend festivals and camps.
"You also need a good booking agent,and a good financial advisor,along with a good lawyer"
In the words of Jason's article..."Nobody wants you, until you don't need them."
None of those guys work for free so you can't afford them unless you're already pulling in big gigs. (or living off a big trust fund) It's a vicious circle.
The best you can hope for is to front a successful band for a few years, you might get picked up by a small label, but they'll owe you nothing - you'll be their bitch. Good luck.
If you can't sing, then you should just forget it now.
Why not? Because he's run into problems in his life? Did you even read his essay? It's as heartfelt a look at what it's like, right from the trenches, to try and break into the music business as a performer as I've ever read. It's an incredibly insightful account about the obstacles one faces.
So Jay Gaunt's cut two full CD's. So what? Jason's got five. How does that address what the OP's question was?
Jason's essay was as on point regarding the OP's question as anything he'll ever read on the subject.
"You have to have an IN through the music business,and some money to get started. You also need a good booking agent,and a good financial advisor,along with a good lawyer."
If you are good a booking agent will want you, but a record label won't unless you are already established. Mailing lists, mp3/CD sales, and constant draw at gigs is all necessary.
Be one or more of the following: A prodigy, innovative, one of the best, an amazing song writer, outgoing, young, good looking... etc.
I know a few harp players who make a living at it. I did for a few years back in the day.
If you want to follow the Jason Ricci model of relentless touring you need to be prepared for hard work, lots of frustration, and you better have very modest expectations about earnings. You gotta live like a rat, and as we know those who chose this life tend to die young.
Another pro player I know almost never tours. He relies largely on lessons: in person, via Skype, and mp3s lessons sold through his website. He also records and performs, and lives a pretty good life. He is an exceptional player.
Another pro player is Gary Allegretto, who not only performs and records, but also focuses on educating young people about blues harmonica through the Blues Foundation's various blues in the schools programs. He is good at this and is very well paid for it.
You need to augment your income with money from sources besides performances: teaching & recording, perhaps selling a line of harp related products like mics, custom harps, cases, amps, etc.
The place to start is to become an exceptional player, of course, and to work the social networks hard, such as Youtube and Facebook. You will need to play in several bands (at first) to make even a minimum sustainable level of income.
The way to get where the legends are is to keep at it. It takes superhuman determination and painful sacrifice.
But some do make it to a "Pro" level. Best of luck.
@Honkin-Right-re-read the second sentence of Jason's article-Jay and Josh are two of the most dedicated,straight laced kid's I know-why? Because the parents have been there every step of the way-I realize some day they won't be,but they are now,at the most important stage of their careers. Jason disrespected one of the top players today during an interview with Jay,and then went public with it-that's the kind of shit a true professional won't due.
You know what tmf? You got a bone to pick with Jason about something? That's between you and him.
I have no idea what kind of kids Jay and Josh are, nor do I care.
I stand by my effort to help the OP, by pointing him to one of the best essays I've read about how to get to the point where you can live off of your earnings from playing/touring, from a guy who, at least for a while, did just that.
Say what you will about Jason's personal failings, or your perception of his failings, whether real or not, the essay was right on point about what the OP was asking. It told about the realities of dealing with booking agents, managers, club owners, touring etc. in a thoughtful, insightful way.
Of course, if you happen to have an "IN" in the music business and the financial wherewithal to hire an entourage from the get go......well that's another way to go.
One last thing, if we're picking our music collection by how "straight laced" the artists are, isn't that the Pat Boone channel.....24/7.......just sayin'
Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2011 3:40 PM
Why does SONNYD keep lobbing these grenades into the forum, wind you all up, and never come back with a "thanks guys, good info" kind of reply? Just take a look at his past posts and you'll get the picture. What do we know about his guy? ----------
Your personal feelings about Jason have nothing to do with this.
The truth is the world of clubs, promoters and record labels is a sleazy, nasty world inhabited by shady parasites. Even a weekend warrior like myself has dealt with club owners that got nasty and refused to pay, gear stolen at gigs, promotors who broke contracts, agents that ripped us off.
It's bad enough dealing with that on an occasional basis.
The reality is that for every 1000 players only one or two will ever really make a living as pro players. It takes far more than good supportive parents, playing skill and being around pro players to make you into one.
Even if all the balls are in your favour, you're still unlikely to make it as a pro. It's a tough life and requires a lot of dedication and sacrifices. 99.9% of players simply do not have what it takes to be a pro player. I'm not talking about playing skill. I'm talking about all the other stuff that goes into it. For example:
How many people will live of just one small meal a day and live in a van/motel room with four other guys?
How many people will accept not knowing where their next meal, paycheck, bed for the night, next gig, next holiday or when their next day off from work will be?
How many people will accept being ripped off on a regular basis by agents, promoters, bar owners, etc, etc?
How many people will live without health care, insurance, reliable transport, a steady relationship, family home and all the creature comforts?
Those are just some of the hardships that most pro players face at one time or another. Not to mention that many at one time or another also become addicted to drugs or drink and have those demons to cope with as well. It's a really tough life being a pro and the reality is that most people simply aren't cut out for it.
To be successful at anything musically you have to have the 'X Factor'. Now I know over here there is a TV talent show, which I have never watched, which is called the X Factor. So, not having watched it, I probably don't know what I'm talking about.
Ok, I think it is possible to land jobs with groups, even successful groups, but I think it would have its limits & the pay might never be certain. You would need to be good, very good, presentable, flexible in what you play, possibly double up on other instruments and sing. Plus being able to teach harmonica to supplement an already meagre income. Just my thoughts from no real experience.
I have a cousin who is a world class violinist & who plays with orchestras all around the world. But the calls are few and far between & the income poor. But she loves it, & it fits in with her other commitments in raising a young family. On the other hand we have 'X Factor' entertainers /entrepreneurs like Andre Rieu who undoubtedly is not considered as a great violin player but would probably be amongst the highest paid.
I think it helps if 1) you are young 2) good looking as it would make the harmonica more 'cool' 3) present yourself well 4) play what people want to hear ie not play for yourself or other harmonica players, and 5) have that X Factor whatever it is!
Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2011 8:09 PM
tmf714, What are you talking about? I just re-watched all four of the Jay Gaunt/Jason Ricci interview videos, and I still have no idea what you could possibly be reffering to.
Who is this "top playr" that Jason supposedly "disrespected", and how exactly did he "direspect" him or her? I was paying pretty close attention and I have no idea what you're talking about, it makes me wonder if your imagining things.
In fact Jason was quick to jump in and defend/praise a "top player" who is often maligned by other harp players (ie. John Popper). And he went on to talk about how he tries to be quick to see where people are right, and not where they're wrong.
@REM-I believe he asked Jason take it down-out of respect,Jason complied. And no,I am not imagining it-but like I said,I am sure it was removed. And out of respect for Jason and the player,this will be my last post concerning this subject.
Jason Ricci may have some flaws, but that does not detract from the validity of his essay about the Pro life. I pretty sure Jason knows WAY more about it than tmf714.
I admire Jason Ricci and I wish him the best in his struggles. Lord knows I have battled personal demons in my life. No need to kick a guy when he is down.
Short answer, nearly impossible. As someone pointed out you have to be cut out for it and that to a certain degree means being more than slightly warped and somewhat dis-functional. All the negatives and draw backs that have been cited are absolutely true. No one in their right mind would actually want this job. The music is what saves you. It's not what you do. It's what you are.
But you know what, "professional", by definition, is not just about getting paid. It's about how you conduct yourself. How you go about your business irrespective of money. Do you show up on time or even at all? Are you prepared? Do you let drink/drugs get in the way and make you an ass? Do you treat others, yourself, and those who have gone before with respect? I've known loads of musicians who call themselves "pro" that I do not consider professional and would never work with or hire. If your goal is to be a true pro start with attitude and worry about the money later.
I notice a lot of a lack of response to this thread from a whole lot of forum members who, one would derive from their previous posts, should have something to contribute.
Hell, I make a great living playin' harp. I do it 11 hours a day while I drive my truck.
If it weren't for the blues, I'd just be sittin' there lookin' out the window. ----------
Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.
I have the secret-- In order to become a pro harmonica player, you only have to do one thing . . . Whatever it takes--everything--put all your eggs in one basket. Beware--be sure you want what you are asking for. One thing is for sure, only pursue a life of a professional musician if you desire nothing else--and there is a lot of stuff out there in the world--is it better than music? Some people don't even HEAR music--it's just noise to them (and I don't mean harmonica). I just turned 59, and I have played music for a living most of my life--but it's harder now than it was when I started (for everyone), and there's not many folks at the top. In the words of Groucho, "don't worry about the money--there isn't any" 8)
Last Edited by on Sep 03, 2011 1:07 AM
Of course I second EVERYTHING that Jason said in his essay, this is an extreme high definition picture of the actual market.
I just want to add something:
- Being a musician is one thing (with all what it means to be one), marketing it is something else. Whatever the instrument you play, it's difficult to make it as an everyday living for a long period of time.
I've just said every instrument but I should add NO ONE CARES ABOUT HARMONICA, as much as I'm deeply addicted to this instrument, everyone has to be lucid and facing the truth.
- Another 2 cents I want to add, is that being a pro as a musician, and even if you have to want it, I mean REALLY want it, THIS IS NOT A PROFESSION, but luck, talent, opportunity and WORK can sometimes pay off but there's NO GUARANTEE...
I love being a Suzuki endorsee (Suzuki people are THE BEST I've ever met in this business), I love to be an Audix endorsee, I loved to be a Blowsmeaway endorsee (Greg was an angel) , it's super nice to have inspired many people to discover the practice of an instrument thru my videos. But I paid a price for that I' ve spent the last 5 years practicing up to 8 to 10 hours a day (Greg Heumann can testify) regardless my HUGE poverty, regardless the fact that I've lived in the street during 4 long weeks in June 2010, regardless the fact that I've been in depression (I'm still in a certain way) I've my opinion on the subject why I've failed to be a pro musician, but at least I'm lucid, I know I've got something special, Peter Madcat Ruth, Jason, Jerry Portnoy,Rob Paparozzi, Carlos, Charlie Musselwhite, and many other pros have testified it (I'm not pretentious with saying that this a fact and i can prove it), even Adam the owner of this forum BUT I'm only too stupid to market it seriously.
Ok I give you one clue, I'm socially impaired and I think too little of myself to sell it properly
PS: Yes it hurts as hell of not being able to produce my first CD, and not being on the road, but in 50 years I'll be dead (may be much sooner) so who gives a fuck (sarcasm here)...And if you think about it, to be an honest and caring person is another goal to reach. ---------- Never try to be as good as someone else, succeed to be the best player you can be!
I agree with @Cristal Lecter. It's really hard to talk about one way to be a pro musician. I think that very important is: 1. practise all time long and try to find holes in your skills and knowledge 2. play with many (good) musicians) 3. make a good marketing (myspace, YT,twitter, web site) 4. always to by humbe and open minded 5. take your target and go to this by litte steps 6. get feedback from pro's and everyone who listen you 7. If you want something very hard, don't let it go.
I think it's extremely hard to make a living just by PLAYING harmonica--i.e., just by performing, recording (being paid for your recordings), and playing sessions for other people. That's one kind of harmonica pro, but it's not the only kind. The other kind supplements the performance side with significant income from teaching.
The first kind of pro includes people like Charlie Musselwhite, Kim Wilson, Rob Papparozzi, and, I suspect, Rick Estrin. I've always been amazed by Rob, because he actually raised a family (and kept a marriage intact, as far as I know) by playing harmonica.
The other kind of pro includes Jimi Lee, David Barrett (who is much more in the teaching side), Joe Filisko, Phil Wiggins (who is mostly in the performing side), Dennis Gruenling, Ronnie Shellist, and Michael Rubin. These are people who make a full-time living from harmonica. I consider them pros! But they're not making a full-time living just from performing and recording--although it's possible they could. Remember: in order to make a full-time living from performing and recording your own music, you pretty much have to commit to traveling far and wide. Not everybody wants to do that. There are a very few harmonica players (like Charlie McCoy and Tommy Morgan) who make good livings primarily from studio work. There's much less studio work than there used to be, because commercials--the main source of studio work--now use far less original music (jingles) than they use to. They use classic rock and blues and soul. Nobody writes songs like "You deserve a break today, so get out and get away....to McDonald's........." or "I'd like to teach the world to sing....." A keyboard player explained this to me: studio work has been decimated, he said, compared with what it was in the 1980s.
Then there's a third category of people, like me, who make some money performing and teaching but who have full-time or significant part-time jobs that provide their main incomes. I still consider myself a pro, and if I lost my professor's job, I've got a much better sense now of what adjustments I'd need to make in order to support myself with music. (Number one change: I'd offer Skype lessons! That technology has completely changed the game for harmonica teachers.)
It's possible that I've sorted one or more people above into the wrong pile, but basically the three-part division--full-time players, full-time player/teachers, and part-time player/teachers (or part-time players)--is sound.
Last Edited by on Sep 03, 2011 5:39 AM
Interesting subject. I think a big problem for harp players in making a living is that anyone can squirt a tune out of a harp and most people don't know good harp playing from bad, with most of it being bad.
This means the second guitarist in a group will go buy a Lee Oskar from his local music store and do a Brian Jones, or someone will pick up a harp lying around the studio during a recording session. Where I am, no band wants a full time harp player as there's 20 guys who'll sit in and would probably pay for the privilege, if truth be known.
We have a much disrespected and maligned instrument and I admire all those who manage to turn a living out of it. If the devotion and time spent to the harmonica was compensated in the same way as guitarists or singers, this place would be like Millionaire's Row.
For me I have no tolerance for touring under shitty conditions and struggling to "make it" so I went to college. I still practice as many hours a day as possible. For me I am saving enough money to retire in 5-6 years after which I will simply play and practice harmonica all day. Whether I make any money doesn't matter because I will have make a living from dividend stocks. If anything it seems a waste to spend all the hours, probably many wasted hours, in the statistical off chance that you have a career exclusively from harmonica. To me it always seemed much smarter to get a degree in something useful that you can make a good salary in (trades even, rad tech, nursing, accounting, etc.) and instead of working full time, work maybe 16 hours a week then devote the rest of your time to doing what you really love: playing harmonica. Without the stress, the sacrifice, the hassle. There's is a guy where I used to live who just plays with 10-12 bands and works very little, but he's never stressed and plays tons of harmonica. Just my 2 cents.
@SonnyD just practice obsessevilly hard make your harp your friend and take it everywhere practice during traffic jams and let the chips fall where they may have fun!!!!
Some of the postings above have said just some of the things I've personally gone thru but being a pro also means that you HAVE to learn the BUSINESS side of things and a lot of that stuff now is available both in print and on the internet wheras I had to learn the hard way with tons of mistakes along the way.
From the bandleader's side, EVERYTHING falls on YOUR shoulders whether you did the (If it sounds like you're a manager at your day job, in many ways, it is EXACTLY the same thing that if anything happens, YOU hear it, the other bandmembers don't) screw up or not. Too often WAAAAAAY too many musicians, especially when they're younger, don't take any real time to learn the business side of things and it's easy to get badly screwed and I can post tons of things but it would take too much time and space here to do it, and trust me, the bsuiness side is a BITCH, and that's the polite way of sayijng it.
Just dealing with club owners/managers/talent buyers/booking agents alone can be a bitch, plus there's tons of expenses that have to be constantly shelled out, plus knowing tax issues, and when you're a full time musician, you are considered self-employed and you ARE a business and you will need to have a tax account (and they usually also double as tax attorneys as well) that specializes in the entertainment industry or you wind up getting badly screwed by sheer incompetance of people having no clue about the business.
Trust me, the music business is NOT a kid's game and the crap in open jams by comparison is more like kiddie playtime for adults and you wear a lot of hats as a pro, ESPECIALLY as a band leader and I absolutely sympathize with Jason Ricci about the business end of things because it AIN'T an easy to deal with and you need a strong constitution to deal with the all the BS that goes with it and too many people think of things in far too starry eyed ways.
At Berklee College of Music, they have courses just on the business side of music alone and if there are msuc business seminars around your area, TAKE THEM, because you will learn a lot and you'll quickly find most people's perceptions of the business is totally BS. I've gone to a few, and trust me, they were EYE OPENERS to say the least.
Whether you're on the road as a national act or you do it regionally or locally, the business side of the music business alone is enough to cause a nervous breakdown for the average person and there are gonna be times that you need to get away. Just from the bandleader point of view, you're married to your phone 24/7 just with bookings alone, let a lone having to call for subs when needed and a whole lot more and believe me, just the phone bills I've had to deal with over the years alone would make most people flip out and there's always constant phone tag.
Maybe at some point I'll get to more of the business side of things because it ain't just about playing the music in order to be a pro. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Sep 03, 2011 10:02 AM
@tooka i do thank you all for this it took me a little while to read all of this but very insightful and i think ill try college one more time just to be shur and there is not a lot you need to know about me but this I LOVE PLAYING HARMONICA AND THE BLUES.
The ideal situation that works well for me is semi-pro/weekend warrior model. I front my band and share booking responsibilities with my guitar player. Our band does anywhere from 4-6 gigs a month and get $100+ dollars a man per show as a matter of course. We stay mostly local and are starting to get invited small festivals too. Obviously, this is not big money but it paid for all my gear in the first year and is now paying for pretty nice family vacations and such. I'm working with some very good musicians now and plan to record an album of mostly originals by the end of the year. It's a vanity project for sure, but I bet it pays for itself eventually too. Overall, it makes a pretty cool little second job and if I ever get to retire from my day job in advertising I'll sure enough keep doing this for fun and extra cash. -Bob ---------- http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#!/pages/Bourbon-Bleach/161722307208585
Dennis is the exception. Even then he has to supplement his income with teaching and selling mics, amps, etc. The reality is that if you don't sing then it's super tough to make it. This is especially true when it comes to the diatonic harmonica.
"Being a pro simply means you get paid for what you do.
If you get paid, you are Not an amatuer."
Hmmmmm I know what you mean. Whilst it's true in the meaning of the word, it's not strictly true in the real world. A pro (harmonicist) is someone who derives the majority of his income from the harmonica.
And tell Howard Levy too--and Mickey Raphael while your'e at it-what about Magic Dick during his J. Geils Band days? There are plenty of pro harp players who don't sing and still made it big. Little Walter was a side man for most of his career-which means he did not sing.
Last Edited by on Sep 04, 2011 7:23 AM
Ok so today there are a small handful of harmonica players who are pro who rely solely on playing the harmonica and do not sing. The fact remains that they are in the minority. You named four out of thousands of harmonica players who are alive today! Magic Dick of course sings these days, so that would only really make it three that you named. I'm sure there might be a few more, but not many more. Little Walter doesn't count. He's been dead for many, many years, so is therefore not a viable example of today's pro scene.
In the case of Dennis and Howard, they are rare individuals and can make a living by playing in many musical arenas. Most diatonic players seem to rely on playing blues based music to get paid. Of course there are exceptions to that like PT Gazell. For the most part however the majority of diatonic players on the circuit play blues based music or in some cases country music.
Being a pro musician today whatever the instrument is harder than it's ever been. The economic situation has shut down so many venues that gigs are hard to come by. Then of course you have the singer with backing tracks and the dreaded Karaoke. Add to that the reality that many people can't afford to go out regularly and support live music. All of these things combined mean it's getting harder and harder to make a living playing harmonica. If it was easy then people like you and me would be earning our livings doing it wouldn't we?
I regularly get paid to play, but I am am not a full time musician and I consider myself a serious hobbyist rather than a semi-pro. BUT most of the other musicians I gig with ARE full time professionals and rely on music for their living and make car payments, house payments and raise kids exclusively on income from music. None of them are harp players. None regularly tour. Some have degrees in music and almost all of them can read music.
What I've learned from observing these guys is that being a professional musician is a hustle game. They hustle multiple income producing musical opportunities constantly and simultaneously. They all have multiple musical income sources. Some hold teaching positions at colleges. Many give lessons. All play in multiple bands, either as a regular band member or a sideman. Almost all will regularly pick up sideman gigs on an ad hoc basis, as well as performance opportunities like playing for shows, theatrical productions, etc. which require the player to work from charts. Most can play various styles of music with a high level of competence and almost all learn new material very quickly and easily. Most have well developed improvisational skills. There are not many studio opportunities in this area, but some of them do occasionally get hired to record.
Harmonica is certainly not as in demand as most other instruments. Of course there's blues and being able to play blues competently is de rigeur for a harp player. But, for me personally, the other gigging opportunities i get are not exclusively blues gigs and I am under the impression I get hired because I can also fit harp to other styles of music and because I can handle different kinds of minor key material competently. Although I don't sight read I can make sense of a chart well enough to work from one if i get it ahead of time, which one needs to be able to do on those rare occasions where the pit orchestra for a play needs to hire a harmonica player. It's hard to get paid for playing harp and it's even harder if you are a one trick pony. I'm not a band leader and I don't sing any lead vocals. Most of the other harp players around here who gig regularly sing and lead their own blues bands.
I could not come close to making a living on what i get paid to play. But I enjoy what I am doing and count my blessings that I get to play regularly with such good musicians from whom I learn a lot and who do make a living as full time professional musicians, even though none of them play harp.
Last Edited by on Sep 04, 2011 9:59 AM
I play mostly with full-timers too. At my gig last night we had subs on kit and bass. They fell right in to doing what I do with minimal confusion. I really appreciate that I can regularly play with guys that buttoned-up and skilled. The bar-owner is also a musician. They were all talking about how our town is unusual because you can get gigs fairly regularly that pay $100-200 a man. You can make a few bucks by gigging here. Now, move on up to a place like Nashville and musicians play for free or hustle for tips. Just too many good players that want to catch their big break. -Bob ---------- http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#!/pages/Bourbon-Bleach/161722307208585
@Bb: Certainly one of the nice things about playing with full time pros is that you get paid as if you are one. On the other hand, it is ironic that an accomplished pro with an advanced degree in music is not getting paid any more than a self taught hobbyist like me for the same gig. Count my blessings.
But yeah, working with musicians of this caliber, you can can pick up a sub who is able to handle a gig with a high level of competence with no rehearsal. I play a Christmas show annually with some "semi pro" amateurs who are all in gigging bands. It literally takes them hours to work up a tune that a competent pro could get down in a matter of minutes--if not seconds. Quite a contrast. It makes me appreciate my good fortune in having the opportunity to gig with real professionals on a regular basis.
Last Edited by on Sep 04, 2011 10:22 AM
