|
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Gussow in Princeton Alumni Weekly
Gussow in Princeton Alumni Weekly
Page:
1
tmf714
824 posts
Oct 07, 2011
3:29 PM
|
Don't know why this article has not appeared on this forum yet,but I will introcduce it. Members from this forum have commented on Harp-l about it,but strangley enough nothing here until now- http://paw.princeton.edu/issues/2011/10/05/pages/5226/index.xml?__xsl=/cms-print.xsl
|
waltertore
1535 posts
Oct 07, 2011
3:47 PM
|
I read the article just now. I was impressed with it. I learned alot and found nothing offensive in it. I have offended people in the music scene unintentionally by doing music the way I do and being honest with what I say more times than I can remember. I will take an honest musician anyday over one that smiles to everyone, is always looking to snake up the ladder, and fears ruffling anyones feathers. I belive in telling ones truth and that will set you free and the bottom line musically is to play music that is your truth. If one speaks with honesty and there is no anger in their statements, those who are offended, have their own issues to work out. the main thing is to speak without anger in your heart! Walter
----------
walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,800+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Oct 07, 2011 4:54 PM
|
RyanMortos
1151 posts
Oct 07, 2011
4:25 PM
|
Lotta chatter on harp-l the last few days on this article, not exactly positive. Though, I think they're misunderstanding or just not knowing things Adam has said in his past.
----------
~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Steven Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
See My Profile for contact info, etc.
|
Michael Rubin
277 posts
Oct 07, 2011
7:54 PM
|
I think when Kim says, "I'm one of them.", he not only means he can play as well as his heroes and with true blues spirit, he means he is accepted by that group of people as a family member. I agree with that sentiment. Kim Wilson plays real blues as well as the classic players and they all knew and loved him and played 100s of gigs with him.
I do not think you need to be black to be a part of that family. Butter, Bloomfield, Musselwhite, Oscher, Portnoy and Wilson are all at the Thanksgiving day table.
|
kudzurunner
2730 posts
Oct 07, 2011
8:02 PM
|
Absolutely. Black fathers and white sons. White sons who did their level best to honor, respect, and fit into the tradition that the black sons, at that point, were rushing away from. That's precisely my point. This is what makes them such powerful carriers of that older tradition. They were adopted sons. But at some point--if not for their generation of players, then later on--creative aggression is required if the music is to stay vital and be embraced by younger generations.
Musselwhite is a special case. He has always had a much wider and more searching musical sensibility. And of course Butterfield had "East/West." Both of them were modernizers; Musselwhite still is. That's why his last disc was remarkable: his songwriting was completely original rather than stylized. At his age, most players/performers aren't able to do that. He did it.
Last Edited by on Oct 07, 2011 8:13 PM
|
walterharp
717 posts
Oct 07, 2011
8:24 PM
|
is there really bad press? of course there are bad aspects, this journalist did sense some of the potential split and drove the wedge of controversy into it.
i come at this as a scientist on other issues who has experienced similar things, wanting to explain EXACTLY what i meant.. many journalists are correct in that they know the public is not interested in that, but when my colleagues read it, i cringe at best.
it is obvious that adam loves music/harmonica/harp players/blues deeply (order random here) and his statements certainly are excellent evidence of that!
|
Frank
7 posts
Oct 08, 2011
6:45 PM
|
Because the truth is, Jason Ricci and Sugar Blue and Carlos del Junco are the Little Walters of our time. They're responding to, and transforming into a palpably modernized harmonica sound, not just the received tradition of the blues harmonica, but jazz, R&B, and post-James Brown funk tradition of OUR time.
Could Dennis Gruenling's name be added to that list?
Last Edited by on Oct 08, 2011 6:45 PM
|
tmf714
827 posts
Oct 08, 2011
6:55 PM
|
@Frank-I would have to say no,and I think Dennis would agree. Dennis is a tradisionalist,steeped deepley in Louis Jordan,Red Prysock,William Clarke,Little Walter and George Smith. I don't hear that in any of the people you included.
Dennis prefers not to use speed,but accuracy and phrashing,along with his signature tone to get his music across,while employing minimial overblows and overdraws.
He pushes the boundaries,but remains true to the masters.
Last Edited by on Oct 08, 2011 6:58 PM
|
Kingley
1669 posts
Oct 09, 2011
2:21 AM
|
My take on this is quite different to many people on here I suspect. I'm sure that many others will disagree with my view.
I see people like Carlos Del Junco and Jason Ricci as harmonica players who are moving away from blues (in it's traditionally accepted forms). They are forging a new type of music that whilst it may be blues based, has many other elements to it's form. This to me is not blues. It's a new style of music that is as yet undefined. It might I suppose come under the vague umbrella of the genre called "World music". Carlos Del Junco in particular stands out as the one harmonica player (to me at least) who has gone beyond classification by genre. He is simply a musician who chooses to utilise the harmonica to express himself. His recorded material bears testament to this. It draws from many styles of music to form a truly eclectic mix of music,
Dennis Gruenling is to me the epitome of modern day "blues" harmonica. He seems to me to be the next logical step from where Little Walter, etc, left off. He plays in a uniquely refreshing way and yet retains a massively strong sense of what the music should be, without diluting it unnecessarily. He is the one modern player that comes to my mind as carrying on the flag whilst pushing it forward at the same time.
Last Edited by on Oct 09, 2011 2:22 AM
|
kudzurunner
2731 posts
Oct 09, 2011
5:49 AM
|
Kingley and I have disagreed here, more than once, on how to categorize Jason and Carlos, but he and I share the same extremely high regard for Dennis. After seeing his show at SPAH, I would certainly agree that he is in a category by himself. His singular mastery of the low harps and his innovative way of swinging 12th position--I'm thinking of JUMP TIME, back in 2000 or so--deserve to be called bar-raising, modernizing moves, and I'm happy to call him a friend and source of continuing inspiration.
|
Littoral
388 posts
Oct 09, 2011
6:10 AM
|
Kingley,
Your point resonates with me -although the boundaries of accuracy fade throughout this topic.
This is where my eyebrows raise skeptically:
Gussow:
"Because the truth is, Jason Ricci and Sugar Blue and Carlos del Junco are the Little Walters of our time."
I don't get that. I would think that Howard Levy would lead that list but it may be illuminating that he's not even included. No, the list wasn't intended to be all inclusive, but if Levy isn't modern blues then I guess it explains why I rarely listen to him or Ricci -except (often) to marvel, study and steal as much as I can.
Last Edited by on Oct 09, 2011 6:11 AM
|
silpakorn
99 posts
Oct 09, 2011
6:15 AM
|
I'm sooooooooo with you Kingley, and never understand why this issue keep going on and on. Why don't people seperate the blues and harmonica sometimes ? I think it's just branching out as well not just transforming, I mean while a lot of new player mixing up the blues with something else there'll be also new players that wanna do just old school stuffs as well and eventually they will come. JR is like Steve Vai, I mean would you call Steve a modern blues guitarist because he can play blues and happened to be in the movie "crossroads" ? No, he's him, he's something different, just like another guitar heroes of that period. Everbody was based on the blues but no one bothered talking about it, but it's not just them in the guitar world otherwise they would have known as modern blues guitarist.. the next decade you got people like Keb' Mo', Derek Trucks, Joe Bonamassa.. people who I'd call modern blues guitarists and IMHO in the harp world that would be some people like Dennis, JJ milteau, John Nemeth for example, I know they don't have the same style but they have something in common, something that made me "feel" that they are modern blues harp players... for the other pros that (surely)can play traditional but choose to do something else in their albums and gigs they're something else different.
|
kudzurunner
2732 posts
Oct 09, 2011
9:15 AM
|
I should of course have included Paul Delay along with Jason, Sugar, and Carlos. A fearless modernizer steeped in the tradition.
Apart from Delay, the most interesting West Coast bluesman to me, by far, is Rick Holmstrom. I was blown away by HYDRAULIC GROOVE. Given the sort of old school blues that he'd been successfully purveying, looking back to the 40s and 50s jump blues that dominate the backward-looking scene there, there was no reason to imagine that he would lift his head, take notice of what was actually happening in contemporary black/urban music--namely, hip-hop grooves, breaks, with techno additions--and create a mixtape that fused that stuff with his stuff. It's highly creative and genuinely contemporary. It may not be to everybody's taste. But it's brave, bold, and interesting; it's one way of navigating the traditionalist/modernist divide:
http://www.amazon.com/Hydraulic-Groove-Rick-Holmstrom/dp/B0000695VA
Last Edited by on Oct 09, 2011 9:15 AM
|
groyster1
1481 posts
Oct 09, 2011
10:51 AM
|
if I were to do an interview,it would be recorded with the interviewer given a copy and asked to only print my quotes that were on the tape.....but I am not a very trusting person,based on my experiences with others
|
Kingley
1671 posts
Oct 09, 2011
11:04 AM
|
Littoral - Howard is predominantly a "Jazz" player. Of course he can play blues if he chooses too, but it's not his genre of choice.
Last Edited by on Oct 09, 2011 11:04 AM
|
nacoran
4717 posts
Oct 09, 2011
12:19 PM
|
Walterharp, the thing is, that's not what a journalist is supposed to do. A journalist is supposed to present the facts and not editorialize. They have a duty to get the facts right. (Of course, it's a pet peeve of mine. I went to school for journalism and one of the reasons I ultimately didn't go into the field was I got fed up with how sloppy people get with the facts.)
No one else is going to mention Ed Begley Jr.?
:)
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
5F6H
885 posts
Oct 09, 2011
2:34 PM
|
"Because the truth is, Jason Ricci and Sugar Blue and Carlos del Junco are the Little Walters of our time. They're responding to, and transforming into a palpably modernized harmonica sound, not just the received tradition of the blues harmonica, but jazz, R&B, and post-James Brown funk tradition of OUR time."
"Our time" in the context of "us" being old men who love 40+year old music? You are not describing music of the contempoarary time (LW was contemporary in his day...he wouldn't have continued to be had he lived a full term, his "die" was pretty well cast by his mid 20's), you are not describing "current" music. If the time has to come when the sons reject the sensibilities of their fathers to create something new, when is Jason going to do that to you Kudzurunner... great player as he is, funky roadhouse, jazz tinged blues is not new/current/contemporary...turn on the radio & listen to the current charts ...
Bear in mind that today's kids largely ARE fans of the music tha their father listened to, the guys who saw in the popularisation of rap (not it's birth) & hip hop are middle aged men now.
It strikes me that many of these divisions/definitions are purely arbitrary categorisations based upon your personal taste & goals, rather than tangible real world trends & scenarios.
I don't see why you think Nemeth is any more modern than Wilson? Wilson was pretty contemporary in his earlier years, "Tuff Enough" for instance, work on major Hollywood releases...
----------
www.myspace.com/markburness
|
tmf714
828 posts
Oct 09, 2011
2:47 PM
|
"Cathected" has nothing to do with "Attaching",or "Attachment"-
Adjectivecathected (comparative more cathected, superlative most cathected)
1. charged with mental or emotional energy
"Cathected" is a word I sometimes use when I'm talking about the blues. It's Freud's word. "Cathected onto" means "attached themselves to," in psychological terms. It's another way of saying, "I'm one of them."
Last Edited by on Oct 09, 2011 2:57 PM
|
kudzurunner
2733 posts
Oct 09, 2011
3:07 PM
|
I don't usually quote Wikipedia, but in this case, when I googled "Freud" and "cathexis," what came up is useful:
"In psychoanalysis, cathexis is defined as the process of investment of mental or emotional energy in a person, object, or idea"
When an infant becomes attached to a bright, shiny object, that object is said to be the object of cathexis. The infant is cathected onto that object. The maternal breast--or Mama, more generally (as in "mammary")--is a crucial object of cathection. Sure, to define cathexis as attachment is a slight translation down, but not a big one. People feel anxiety when they're forcibly separated from the objects of their cathexes. When speaking with laymen, psychologists and psychotherapists talk about attachment and separation instead of using machine language like cathexes. This is called "being user friendly." I was being user-friendly, not imprecise.
When a cathection is sundered, broken, that creates pain. The infant who is forcibly ripped from its mother's breast suffers greatly.
For blues harmonica lovers who call themselves traditionalists, the tradition--however one defines that--is an object of cathection. It's something that they charge with considerable mental and emotional energy. When you're talking about ideational cathexes, the sort that show up in conversations about tradition and modernization (for example), things sort of work the same way. When I guy like me comes along and tries to reframe your cathexes in a way that opens up dialogue, it can feel as though I'm trying to take away your favorite toys.
Last Edited by on Oct 09, 2011 3:16 PM
|
atty1chgo
150 posts
Oct 16, 2011
5:25 AM
|
"There were lots of porkpie hats and baseball caps, salt-and-pepper goatees and soul patches. The vibe didn't say: 'Delta juke joint.' It said: 'Cialis commercial."
Sorry Adam, I wouldn't grace what he wrote with the word "journalism"
|
bharper
80 posts
Oct 16, 2011
5:35 AM
|
Actually, that sounds like the crowd at most blues jams... I bet HCH looked like that as well. It is no secret that the blues community is aging. The Cialis reference is pretty clever; the people in those commercials DO resemble typical blues fans.
|
bharper
81 posts
Oct 16, 2011
5:41 AM
|
This story in the Princeton Alumni Weekly was a bylined feature article, not hard news. It was more like an opinion piece than a news story. I thought it was well written. Slamming it for not being a dry recitation of the facts kind of misses the point.
|
atty1chgo
151 posts
Oct 16, 2011
6:00 AM
|
A comment on AG's last post - We just like what we hear. I don't believe that all so-called traditionalists (I number myself among them) do not like the new sound of the blues. It's just a preference for the masters. But comparing it to Baroque as opposed to other classical music forms is a bit much.
As for survival of music to new generations, it is like any thing else: the time must be taken to transmit it to the new generation, and they will appreciate it. I am continuously shocked at discovering that my nieces and nephews, despite their listening to all of the crap that passes for pop music these days, know who Led Zeppelin, Steely Dan and various other classic rock artists are. It is because their parents played it around the house or in the car, or they have turned on a classic rock station, or someone took the time to give them some CD's to listen to. And they like it and listen to it.
A while back, a sickness and disease permeated and helped ruin the popularity of one of the great forms of American music, at least in the U.S. The affliction being the concept of smooth jazz replacing other jazz forms in popular culture. What people call jazz these days is overly dependent on recycled R & B, old Kenny G riffs, and Yanni imitators. I am not by any means comparing the new avenues of blues exploration with that stuff. New can be exciting and interesting and not necessarily better. Let us just all agree that there is room for all of us under the tent, but great care must always be taken to maintain the traditional blues sound. Our reaction is quite apart from resistance to someone "trying to take away [our] favorite toys".
The great Dexter Gordon said it best about his idiom: "Bebop is the music of the future." The traditionalists hold that same viewpoint with regard to the blues.
Last Edited by on Oct 16, 2011 6:04 AM
|
Post a Message
|
