hvyj
2000 posts
Dec 09, 2011
7:39 AM
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Nice energy but most of the notes you were playing didn't fit the chord changes particularly well.
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crispyagain
14 posts
Dec 09, 2011
7:49 AM
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Can someone confirm or dispute JP's review. Thanks
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MrVerylongusername
2104 posts
Dec 09, 2011
8:05 AM
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Nothing sounded off to me. Sounds like you were having some fun. That's what it's about.
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HarpNinja
1970 posts
Dec 09, 2011
8:18 AM
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I don't read guitar tab, but I think the chords are G, D, A, and C? I know a lot of guitar players have to tune differently to play the song, but can't explain why.
At any rate, my understanding is that it is diatonic to the key of G...so a C harp in 2nd position should work really well.
In fact, just off the top of my head, and I can't listen to the recording of yours right now, using the mixolydian mode should work over the whole song.
While I understand you can try and follow the harmony of the song, me thinks that it can be played diatonically with one scale. BUT, I too would like to know more of the theory needed to play it correctly.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
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harp honkin
84 posts
Dec 09, 2011
8:20 AM
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Sounded just fine to me.
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KingoBad
1003 posts
Dec 09, 2011
8:43 AM
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You didn't move with the chord changes. You repeated the same basic thing over and over (like the A A A chorus form). There is nothing wrong with that, except it does not generate much interest. It was like comping through your solo. There are plenty of great players who can do that, but they usually have set it up before hand - with another 12-16 bars.
It is rock harp, however. We are holding you to a little different standard of what we expect to hear out of a harmonica.
My biggest problem with the playing wasn't the repetition. It was the sound. You come in sounding like a dying squirrel compared to the guitars which are rocking right along. If you had come in with more presence and bottom end -even if straight into the pa - would have sounded better. If you are going to solo - be at least on the sound level as the other instruments.
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Danny
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hvyj
2001 posts
Dec 09, 2011
8:50 AM
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What you played wasn't horrible, but this tune is NOT a I-IV-V chord progression so note selection has to move differently to fit the changes. Personally, I do not consider this tune to be a particularly easy tune to play harp on. Keith's guitar is tuned to an open G on the original.
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tmf714
911 posts
Dec 09, 2011
8:51 AM
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The song uses B,G,D and A chords-that's it-very simple.
The song is in G so a C harp in second position would suffice.
Keith uses open G tuning on this one-the high E string is tuned down to D,and the A is tuned down to G.
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HarpNinja
1972 posts
Dec 09, 2011
8:52 AM
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Whether over the entire chord progression or the vampy part, you should be able to play pretty much anything in the middle of the harp and be playing workable notes, FWIW.
I usually stay out of the evaluate my playing threads, but I will try to give this one a listen and chime in just because I like this song.
I might have a live recording of this tune from my old band's first gig.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
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crispyagain
16 posts
Dec 09, 2011
8:58 AM
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Thanks for the opinions people...yes Ninja...please give it a listen.
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GamblersHand
302 posts
Dec 09, 2011
9:12 AM
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I've tried it before using the vocal line as a basis, then start embellishing from there
e.g.
I met a gin soaked bar room queen in Mem phis
2d 3d' 2d 2d 2d 3d' 3d'' 2d 2d 2d'' 2d
Those 3d' above aren't the minor third, more a quarter tone to make it sound more hip
It's more difficult over the A major to D major part of the verse (unless youre good at holding a 3d'' with good intonation) so a 4 draw bend (3rd of the A) to 4 draw unbent (on the D)works ok
Last Edited by on Dec 10, 2011 4:49 PM
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FMWoodeye
112 posts
Dec 09, 2011
9:13 AM
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Just as in your earlier song, I like the way you approached the solo, the opening licks, more creative than the ubiquitous 4 hole draw. It's pretty brief, so not a helluva lot you could do anyway. I mean, if you come in with a ton of intensity, maybe it doesn't comport with the song. Yeah, you could have been louder, but I don't think you were terribly soft. As for not moving with the chord changes, I'm not seeing it as a problem, not like you played any "wrong" notes. Of course, anything can be improved upon.
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dougharps
130 posts
Dec 09, 2011
10:47 AM
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I agree that C in 2nd playing in G mixolydian is a solid approach to the song.
I don't think you played anything "wrong", and your playing was acceptably in tune/time with the changes. If you have not played this song much, you did an OK job soloing, and added energy to the music.
You did limit your note choices to a small range and avoided the low and high ends of the harp, which could have expanded the impact of your solo.
You would need to have solid bend control on the two, three, and four draws to play this well utilizing the low end in addition to the middle. If you were to venture beyond the six blow to take it up the high end have your blow bends on nine and ten blow notes. Overblows are not needed to cover this.
So, there is room to build a better solo in your interpretation of this song, but you did OK in my book, especially if you haven't spent time exploring possible solos on this song. And you did add energy.
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Doug S.
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jdblues
38 posts
Dec 09, 2011
11:11 AM
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KingoBad has it right, imo.
I think it's hard to evaluate your playing from this recording. Whether attributed to your tone, the amp, or the recording method, the sound of your harp just isn't very pleasant to listen to, regardless of what you play. To me, that's by far the most important problem.
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Tuckster
905 posts
Dec 09, 2011
11:19 AM
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I rarely comment on players' playing.Mainly because I'm terrible about explaining techniques. If I'm going to criticize some aspect of your playing, I damn well better come up with what would make it better. I suck at verbalizing this stuff.
Anyway,one man's ceiling is another man's floor. How long have you been playing? I've played this song cross on a C and found it to "fall in" pretty well. GamblersHand steered you on the right track IMHO
A big gripe for me when I listen to a harp player is this: The band's playing- they're talking about apples. The harp player comes in and he's talking about oranges-or worse yet-radial tires! This happens to a lot of players. It's happened for me and still happens on occasion. I think it's one of the hardest things to learn in regards to playing with a band. It's almost a separate entity from technique,yet you need technique to do it.
I don't wish to discourage you, but encourage you to explore a better way to do it.Now that you've encountered the song,you can fool with it at home at your leisure. You're playing out with bands-that's a huge step. Congrats!
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6SN7
192 posts
Dec 09, 2011
1:25 PM
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I hate commenting on this kind of stuff but I am going to take a shot.
Here's what I like, your in key, play when pointed to , didn't step on anyone, and didn't wreck the vocals. You had the sense when toplay and when not to play. That's 80% of the battle.
Solos should tell a little story. I don't think you thought much about what you were going to play, you just went for it. You seem to hold all notes for the same amount of time, played at the same dynamic from start to finish and filled the entire solo with harp. Leaving space is always nice doing a solo. Mixing it up with some chords, whether they be 4-5, 3-4 or 1-4, 2-5 adds to the mix and a fuller sound.
Your on the right track, I think you can do it better. And I think you know you can do better too. Have fun!
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HarpNinja
1984 posts
Dec 09, 2011
8:25 PM
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Somewhere I have a full clip of HT with a harp solo. However I can only find a 30s clip right now. I start on the bottom octave and do a lot of bending then work my way up. I bet 9/10 times I play the second half of the solo working off of 6 blow instead of the 2 and 3 bends. There are times were I'd play a run or glissando up to the 9 or 10 hole to end it.
http://mikefugazzi.com/files/Honky_Tonk_Woman_Demo.mp3
Anyways, I listened a few times through. I have not idea the context - if you are sitting in, playing more than one instrument, rehearsed, etc.
Sticking to just the solo, I liked the tone. You weren't high enough in the mix, but it was a good sound. Going in, I had just assumed there would be a lot of middle octave playing, and I was right. At some point, the phrasing needed to be moved to a different octave, IMO. It sounded like a lot of 5 draw bending for inflection, which is fine, but the 4 draw bend is more of a wail note here.
You guys were going high energy, so I thought the space you left was fine. You just played a pretty repetitive solo.
If you play this song all the time with them and are the harp player - so you have your hands free - the only thing I'd add is some comping so the harp doesn't come out of left field. If you were just sitting, you did the right thing by waiting until you got called to play.
I would like to repeat that the tone was very solid.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
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crispyagain
20 posts
Dec 10, 2011
8:56 AM
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Thanks for the responses. Got everything from dying squirrel to solid tone so I guess it's all in the ear of the beholder.
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KingoBad
1006 posts
Dec 10, 2011
10:41 PM
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The dying squirrel was not in reference to your tone, it was your eq setup. Your harp was not set to compete with a heavy rock guitar. You can't bring a knife to a gun fight, no matter how great your tone.
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Danny
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apskarp
559 posts
Dec 11, 2011
9:35 PM
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I felt that there were perhaps too much of the repetition there, although it could have worked well if you would have for example at the end changed the approach so that all that repetition would have contrasted it.
I had the feeling that you really didn't know what to play so you played it safe. Perhaps it was the right choice here... I don't know how familiar you were with the song, how well you heard yourself etc.
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Hoodoo Sauna
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HarpNinja
1987 posts
Dec 12, 2011
9:07 AM
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The feedback was consistent...the harp was well played, but repetitive, and it was low in the mix compared to the guitar.
One of the reasons I usually don't say much on threads like this is because of the lack of context. The other reason is the lack of objective. By this, I mean not giving a specific question for feedback.
Like I eluded to earlier: If you are just sitting in with the band for this tune, or just grabbing the harp for this tune, you are headed a good direction. If you play with the band all the time and this is an example of your contribution to the songs over three sets, there are other things to think about/ask about to provide feedback.
IMO, a huge mistake in evaluating one's playing is viewing a song in the wrong context. Had you played a 15min version of Whippin' Post with a 4min harmonica solo that was totally epic and then played this song next, the solo can be viewed differently than if the song before was Love Me Do and you warbled the whole song, etc.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
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