danbower
9 posts
Jan 23, 2012
5:18 PM
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sometimes i stumble upon a minor music referance. can anyone explain the difference?
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Jim Rumbaugh
656 posts
Jan 23, 2012
6:01 PM
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The simple answer
A minor chord, or minor scale, has the 3rd note flattened 1/2 step. On the famous DO,RE,ME scale, the ME is flat.
(note, I originally posted the above statement with an error, arzajac pointed it out and I corrected it)
To hear a minor chord on your regular diatonic harmonica, draw in on holes 4,5, and 6. The minor chord has a "dark" or sinister sound compared to a major chord. You hear major chords when you blow on that same harp.
There are some more complex answers, but that should be good enough for starters.
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HarmoniCollege March 24, 2012
theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
Last Edited by on Jan 23, 2012 8:00 PM
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arzajac
725 posts
Jan 23, 2012
6:31 PM
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Er, the third note is ME. The TE is the seventh...
Sharps and flats mean that the note is shifted a semitone up (sharp) or down (flat). This is just a the standard way to convey which note to play at a particular time and has nothing to do per se with whether the scale is major or minor (or another quality)
If you sit in front of a piano and play the white keys from C to the next C up, you just played an octave of the C major scale. If you play the same keys, but start on the A and go up to the next A, you just played an A minor (natural) scale. The difference is in the distance between the notes.
A major scale has the following number of semitones between notes in this order
2-2-1-2-2-2-1
A natural minor is as follows:
2-1-2-2-1-2-2
If you play a major scale that doesn't start on C or a natural minor scale that doesn't start on A, you will need to use sharps or flats in some places to hit the note that corresponds to the correct number of semitones between the notes. For example, F major has a flat B. Take a look at a piano keyboard and count the spaces between notes - each key, black or white, is a semitone.
I hope this helps more than it confuses the issue!
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Last Edited by on Jan 23, 2012 6:33 PM
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smwoerner
29 posts
Jan 23, 2012
6:59 PM
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I’m new to all this music theory stuff but, I’ll try to explain it the best I can.
Major and Minor are Scales. Scales are comprised of a combination of notes. Flats and Sharps are notes.
There are twelve musical notes C, (C#/Db), D, (D#/Eb), E, F, (F#/Gb), G, (G#/Ab), A, (A#/Bb), B. Thus if you look at a piano you’ll notice that while there are many keys it is actually a repeating pattern comprised of 7 white keys and 5 black keys for a total of 12 notes. The next 12 sound the same just a little higher.
Notes such as C# and Db are actually the same note. The notation “#” means that the note is 1/2 step or tone higher than the named note and the “b” symbol means that the note is 1/2 step or tone lower than the named note.
So in the C scale you might have any of the12 notes.
The C Major Scale is made up of the following 8 notes C D E F G A B C (7 of the 12 plus the starting note one octave higher).
The C Minor Scale is made up of the following notes C D Eb F G Ab Bb C
Notice that the 3rd , 6th and 7th notes are lower than in the major scale, thus giving it a darker feeling when played.
Now that should all make sense. But, don’t think that # or b notes are what make a major or minor scale. It is how these notes are combined. Let’s look at the key of D
The D Major Scale is D E F# G A B C# D
The D Minor Scale is D E F G A Bb C D
Noticed what happened, we replaced the 3rd, 6th and 7th notes with a note that was 1/2 step or tone lower than the ones in the major scale. So in this case the D Minor Scale still feels darker in relation to the D Major Scale even though there is only one black key. That is because we still have three notes that are lower than the Major Scale.
There are many different major and minor scales based different way of combining sets of the 12 musical notes but, these are the most common for western music.
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Jim Rumbaugh
657 posts
Jan 23, 2012
7:33 PM
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Thanks to arzajac for pointing out my previous error. It's confusing enough when the facts are right, even worse when the facts are wrong.....(of course , then it isn't a fact) :)
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HarmoniCollege March 24, 2012
theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
Last Edited by on Jan 23, 2012 8:01 PM
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Jim Rumbaugh
658 posts
Jan 23, 2012
7:59 PM
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What arzajac and smwoerner said is correct.
Like I said earlier,"There are some more complex answers"
For example, here are the names of some of the different minor scales:
natural
harmonic
melodic
dorian
There are probably a few others. I have not taken the time to memorize the difference between them. But they all have one thing in common:
the third note of the scale is flattened 1/2 step.
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HarmoniCollege March 24, 2012
theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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nacoran
5132 posts
Jan 23, 2012
9:46 PM
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There are 12 notes in a chromatic octave, but in almost all music you never use more 7 of them (although you may play them in more than one octave.)
The easiest way to visually see the difference is with a piano. If you play a C chord on a piano (CEG) you are playing a major chord. If you lower the E to Eb you are playing a minor chord. Actually, if you start on C and only play white notes you get a major scale. If you start on A and only play white notes you get a minor scale. There are lots of other choices for which pattern to use to get your 7 notes.
The confusing thing about music is that sometimes the same word gets used for a couple different things. Major and minor scales are different than major and minor chords- in fact, a major and minor scales both have major and minor chords in them, but they are arranged differently.
On harmonica, you'll also hear people talking about positions, which again, kind of has two meanings. There are two ways to play in a different position. The first, simple way is to just start on a different note (but the number isn't the same as the hole number, it's got to do with the Circle of Fifths, but that's another story). Lots of players play minor scales in 3rd or 5th position that way because the arrangement of notes just works out to play different minor scales there. The second, more advanced way to play in a position is to use bends, overblows and all that stuff to bend the scale back to being a major scale (or maybe a blues scale).
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Nate
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gene
1006 posts
Jan 23, 2012
11:27 PM
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Hmmm...Lemme try one:
If a song is in Gm (G minor),for example, there will be a couple of notes in the song that will always be flat (unless otherwise indicated). These notes are Bb and Eb. On sheet music, the flats will be indicated at the beginning of the sheet and usually won't have to be indicated again in the body of the score.
If, in this Gm song, you find a C# or something that doesn't belong in the Gm scale, that's called an "accidental." If you find a B or E natural, those are also accidentals.
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arzajac
727 posts
Jan 24, 2012
5:30 AM
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Jim: It's those darn French people - they have a different name for everything!
Dan: Here is an image of what I was trying to say:
The G scale has a sharp note in it. That's to make the intervals between the notes match the major scale. Since you are starting on the G, the white keys don't match up and therefore you need to use one sharp.
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Last Edited by on Jan 24, 2012 5:32 AM
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The Iceman
221 posts
Jan 24, 2012
6:06 AM
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Major sounds HAPPY
Minor sounds SAD
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The Iceman
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Pistolcat
129 posts
Jan 24, 2012
7:14 AM
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Maybe I misunderstood the OP but I read it like if there were a difference in flat, minor and sharp. For example: the flat third is sometimes ( often ) referred to as the minor third. You don't often call it sharp second, which I supposed it could be called, enharmonicly.
In blues, you don't call the scale degrees Psharp at all, right? You say flat or minor or maybe "blue" third. Where blue third is meant that the note is somewhat flat, but not flattened to the "real" flat or minor. The flat fifth and flat seventh aren't referred to as minor.
Well think at least. Others might correct me but I think this what the op meant.
I can recommend Michael Rubin's meat an potatoes for better explanations and further musical theory concepts that adhere to the harp.
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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timeistight
301 posts
Jan 24, 2012
9:06 AM
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@danbower: Your question is too vague to answer (though that hasn't stopped people from trying).
"Minor" might be referring to intervals or chords or scales or keys depending on the context. Can you give an example of a minor music reference that you've stumbled on? What difference are you trying to understand?
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MP
1960 posts
Jan 24, 2012
10:25 AM
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sorry....can't help myself..have to correct you...aaahh!
it is mi and ti. oooff! okay, i'm better now.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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Pistolcat
130 posts
Jan 24, 2012
11:01 AM
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MP, I think you're wrong. "Mi a name I call myself /.../ Ti a drink with german bread." It just doesn't make sense. It's either you or Julie Andrews who are wrong and I haven't seen you outsmart any Nazis lately so my buck is on Fräulein Maria.
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"Doe a cat, a cat with a gun!"
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timeistight
302 posts
Jan 24, 2012
11:42 AM
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The name of the song is "Do-Re-Mi" so none of the lyrics are literally correct. The tonic sol-fa Maria is teaching the kids uses "Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do" for the major scale. (And, BTW, tea is a "drink with jam and bread".)
To bring this back to the major/minor thing, I think it's easier to think of the minor scale starting on "La":
"La Ti Do Re Mi Fa So La" = the natural minor scale.
"La Ti Do Re Mi Fa Si La" (Si is a half-step up from So) = the harmonica minor.
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Pistolcat
131 posts
Jan 24, 2012
12:43 PM
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Thank you timeistight. It was a joke. Not very funny but Hey, that's me.
... I really did think it was German bread though. Funny that. Or not.
Edited because: not funny either...
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
Last Edited by on Jan 24, 2012 1:01 PM
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lumpy wafflesquirt
512 posts
Jan 24, 2012
2:01 PM
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I think the best answer for the OP is to look up the meat and potatoes lessons on youtube, sart at number 1 and work your way through. all will be expalined in great detail.
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"Come on Brackett let's get changed"
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nacoran
5136 posts
Jan 24, 2012
2:33 PM
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We should have him thoroughly confused by now. Definitely recommend Meat & Potatoes. The problem with explaining theory over the internet is you rarely know exactly what the other person already knows. You tend to go back to the start, but then you try to condense it and by the end it's often more complicated that it needs to be because you leave out steps that aren't necessarily complicated but that need to be understood to understand the later stuff. Micheal does a great job of starting at the beginning and covering all that stuff.
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Nate
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Michael Rubin
416 posts
Jan 24, 2012
2:37 PM
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Thanks guys.
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