Some say that to string a few notes together which make sense equals a musician, however, that can hardly be compared to a concert pianist for example. When I get together with the drummer, guitarist and bass guitarist, I realise just how little I know of the technical terms for a start. My present band plays plenty of material which is not blues related and I find I'm having trouble knowing what to do with harp as all my background has been in blues. The drummer suggested I record all the numbers I'm having trouble with and they'll do just the rhythm so as I can work on them at home. Great suggestion, and it's what I will do. But it brings to mind again, just what is a musician. I mean I feel pretty thick sometimes not knowing what these other people know. I know I do a pretty nice job at gigs, as I've had a number of people come up to me and say "really nice harp man", so maybe I just ought to get over it and think to myself "well, I make some nice noises".
It's a continuum. A good way to learn the theory behind it all is Mr. Rubin's Meat & Potato series of vids. Shame on you Michael, for not putting a link in your post. :)
@Leatherlips: It's never too late to learn. Your library is full of books on music, lots of community colleges do rudiments of music courses, or you could take some piano lessons.
I tend to agree with Gene's "it's all reative" take. I view it as a spectrum. But certainly, if after gigs you've had people come up and compliment you on your playing, it's fair to consider yourself a musician.
I'd have to disagree with the "anyone who studies music" definition, though I understand Michael's reason as a teacher for adopting that perspective/philosophy. From a practical standpoint, there's a certain level of competence on some instrument that is assumed when one is referred to, or refers to themself as a musician.
By Michael's logic, it would be quite reasonable for you to refer a friend to someone looking for a musician for a party, even if they couldn't play a lick on anything, as long as they "study or studied" music. I'm guessing the party thrower wouldn't be too thrilled......unless he/she wanted their guests to be entertained by a discussion of the difference between major and minor scales....and the utility of the circle of fifths.
Last Edited by on Aug 01, 2012 11:51 AM
A musician is a human embodiment of music. A musician finds music where there was none, using silence as a canvas to bring something out of nothing. A musician must have music in his or her heart. A musician only finds music instead of making it.
Old school answer was knowing the standards. Are you a player? I think that's BS, but I grew up hearing it from corp trained drummer who still backs big bands at 84. He thinks blues is garbage. He can't hear it. The irony of playing Marine Bands.
If in your heart you feel you are a musician then you are. Very simple but true. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
If I am asked what I do, I say what my day job is, and that I 'also play music'.
I think of learning music as a process of becoming. I never seem to arrive at the thought, "Now I am a musician."
I'd been listening to music all my life and then one day I just couldn't stand not participating any more, so I began.
I had felt myself as standing 'outside' the knowledge of how it was done, and wanted to get 'inside', because if the experience of listening was so great, how great would be the experience of conveying music?
I've worked with various art-forms in my life, but when I committed to music, it felt more permanent. It didn't matter how good I would be(there's always someone better right around the corner), or where it would lead, if anywhere.
I just wanted to figure out how to play 'competently', and play with others, to try and create a musical landscape that a listener might enjoy or get something out of in some way...and, after a dozen years, and several musical configurations, I'm still working on it.
When asked what he had to say to artists of all disciplines, Wynton Marsalis replied, "If you got it... give it."
Maybe you're an amateur musician vs. pro. I find that a safe assertion. That could encompass the range from "yep,he's an amateur" to "damn, he could be a pro".
The fact that you think about playing to fit the song is a good thing. I know plenty of players who would try to jam in those blues riffs weather they fit or not. I think music is a never ending learning experience. I'd venture that even the pros will say they never stop learning.
Last Edited by on Aug 01, 2012 4:10 PM
'Musician' just sounds a whole lot better than writing 'Retired' or 'Pensioner' on some ridiculous intrusive form. And the pay is probably the same or less? But I never make such claims. Just a thought.
If you are university trained through the eg 'Conservatory of Music' & hold a degree in Music then perhaps you can say you are a Professional.
But in the end we are all musicians trickling down from being superb professional musicians or skilled amateurs to just plain old wannabe's. ---------- HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
I'm impressed with all these responses to a seemingly simple question. I feel like a musician when I've got my eyes shut and I'm buried in the moment. Even time seems to shrink. I'm certainly going to try an be more kind to myself and concentrate more on what I do well rather than that which I don't.
First time someone pays you to play, consider yourself a musician. Up until then you are a learning amateur. You might be incredibly good at home, but you gotta play in front of people to graduate. I entertained family for yrs. growing up. When I got paid to play, I was hooked.
I own a car, but that doesn’t make me a professional driver. I own a hammer, but I’m not considered a carpenter. I own several instruments, yet they alone don’t make me a musician.
But somehow, I can generate emotion or deliver my inner ideas through a variety of sounds using rhythms and melodies. I can make sounds that are happy or melancholy. I can deliver our National Anthem in a manner that makes one feel proud of our country. I can accompany others as they play or step forward as they follow me.
I didn’t have to pass a test or obtain a musicians’ license to share whatever little I can do. What I do know is that when I play the harmonica, people smile and want to know how I get those sounds out of something so small and hidden away within my grip. I may not be a musician by someone else’s definition, yet I know deep down inside that I can create music and that no one can ever take that from me. Whether or not I am classified as a musician is of small importance to me. What is important to me is the music that comes from somewhere inside and the joy it gives me to play it.
"If in your heart you feel you are a musician then you are. Very simple but true. Walter"
I like that definition Walter. It let's me sneak in the door. The only problem though is I've met a few people who are really hard on themselves who play or sing really well, even maybe with a bit of theory, who because of their negative attitude about their own abilities disqualify themselves.
i have seen so many threads in various places that ask this question. the first thing to keep in mind is, whether or not you have ever had a lesson, if you make pleasing noises on a harp you are doing something most people don't do. it took a long time before i would consider myself a musician because i had never taken music theory or harmonica lessons or even studied in any concrete way.
eventually, if you are very stubborn like me, you will know enough and be able to apply enough knowledge- even that learned seemingly by osmosis- to the art or craft of playing a harmonica. at that point you may be a musician.
finding one's way through a chord progression with a band- or to me this is much harder- the ability to do a solo harp piece that hangs together- and is pleasing to the ear- this is a crucial asset to develop.
truth is, some "musicians" leave me cold. i am definitely more a gut player than a brain player. while i do some jazz oriented material i'd much rather do the gut wrenching blues based stuff because it pleases me, and seems to please audiences as well.
case in point: we attended a jazz/blues jam recently for the first time and the jazz outfit on stage was pretty tight and pretty pleasant. Jolene and i got the stage and managed 2 songs before the host swept us off- not before the audience showed some real appreciation. we had hit them in the breadbasket, skirting their brains for the most part.
perhaps one way to make the realization of whether you are a musician or merely a player is, can you do the same thing twice in a row, or can you improvise a different part most every time to the same chord progression? and does it make sense and please your peers, your audience, and yourself?
to be honest i seldom ask this question of myself these days. i am a gut based mostly blues harp player who can write lyrics and arrange songs, not to mention many cover songs i am fluent with. i am unafraid to take any stage with any musician even if i am outclassed here and there, since this is a learning opportunity every time out.
if you hear a recording of yourself there may be a moment where you are critiquing the skills displayed, and then you realize, wow, that's ME! i have had moments like that. and in that initial few seconds i have afforded "that" harp guy a lot of respect. maybe that's when i became one. ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
""If in your heart you feel you are a musician then you are. Very simple but true. Walter"
I like that definition Walter. It let's me sneak in the door. The only problem though is I've met a few people who are really hard on themselves who play or sing really well, even maybe with a bit of theory, who because of their negative attitude about their own abilities disqualify themselves."
nacoran: Thansk. I use this definition because I have no right to judge anyone on how they feel. My personel benchmark for an artist is simply a pure extension of the soul. Anything short of this falls into commercial art. 99.99999999999999999999% of what is called art and music in our world falls in this catagory. Because most are trying to conciously get somewhere, some sound, something of thought which in turns controls the soul, and creates the self doubt byproduct. The mind will forever anaylize, compare, shame, doubt, etc. If one looks at the spectrum of others doing the same stuff they do for their identity they are in the head and will always find things wrong with what they play. The soul does none of this and the uniqueness of ones soul makes them the baddast ass player on the planet. Why? Because no one else can be you when you let it come out unfiltered. People dupe themselves into thinking they are doing this by saying they have no thoughts when they play. I contend that if you have a preconcived idea of format, song, song list, beat, riff, or anything, that is preconcived, you fall into the head catagory.
Look at a small child. They have none of this. They are the teachers of what I am talking about. As I get older and time shortens on this earth I have little pull to the commercial art world. This includes most music being made today. I prefer to live in that childs world and there is no self doubt, self judgement, shame. Just pure expression of emotions, dreams, and wishes. What people think of me as a musician, artist, is of no concern to my soul. I enjoy living life this way! Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Like a doctor practices medicine, a lawyer practices law, or (my profession) an architect practices the design of buildings. For better or worse, the government hasn't deemed music-making to be worthy of official legal status so I think one is free to set the bar pretty low. And that's great, I don't think exalting the word "musician" is a good thing.
Making art is intimidating enough, and I think we should eliminate as many barriers as possible that keep people from practicing art. This world needs more people who practice music...god knows we have enough people who consume and purchase music. I constantly think about the fact that a hundred years ago you had two choices: listen to someone else play music or make it yourself. And while its amazing that with a couple mouse clicks I can get all the Little Walter I can handle, there is something deeply powerful and transformative about actually practicing music, in being part of the production of music. I'm not saying I'd want to listen to noises that all these musicians are making, but for society and for each individual to practice music, it rewires the brain and uplifts the soul.
This was brings up an interesting thought coming from my own musical history. Growing up my parents had me learn piano for a short while and the trombone a little longer and I managed to get just skilled enough to make it into the UC Berkeley marching band (which I did for one inglorious year). I am very grateful that my parents put their efforts and money into learning me some music, but unfortunately it never clicked. Not even ten years ago when I purchased and practiced a banjo for a while on my own.
I think each of those attempts died because I never actually practiced music. Obviously there are a lot of great pianists, banjo pickers, and trombone players, playing in all styles and training under different systems in ways that feed their souls. But unfortunately for me, I think each of my previous forays died out because I had approached practice as executing a performance using that particular instrument. I was practicing an intense exercise in mental and motor skills that happened to produce pleasant noises on a good day. But I wasn't practicing music -- there wasn't the inspirational foundation that could keep me going for the long haul.
I'm still in a honeymoon phase with the harmonica so who knows if it will last, but I have high hopes. This time I've approached this endeavor differently from before, emphasizing playing by ear, improvising, and just enjoying the journey instead of shooting for a destination. There has certainly been a lot of noises made...and just occasionally I've made some music. Nothing you'd ever want to hear, but music that came from me and music that I heard! That's why I call myself a musician. A couple months ago I wasn't a musician. I am a musician today. I suck at being a musician, but with constant effort I'm building up the skill, knowledge and experience towards being a better musician...maybe even a musician that someone other than my pet rabbits could stand listening to!
BTW I should make it clear, I'm not at all denigrating skill nor the endeavor to become more skilled. The music that one produces is limited by their own skills and anyone serious about their art should be pushing their limitations and capabilities. I'm just saying that making music is something anyone can do and really should should indulge in more often. To be doubly clear, I agree that the definition of a professional musician is a totally different beast...that "professional" word adds a whole new level expectations and standards...just like the difference between a "designer" and an "architect".
Last Edited by on Aug 02, 2012 10:42 PM
