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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Breathing problem
Breathing problem
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mikiek
1 post
Aug 15, 2012
2:37 PM
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Hey guys - I'm one of the raw beginners.
I'm stumped on something and wondering if you had any suggestions. The 4 draw bend came pretty easy for me, I'm able to control it pretty well. The 2 draw & 3 draw bends are giving me fits. I understand Adam's point about getting a good clean draw (no bend) and I can do that OK. However the bends, when I can get them, are flat and pretty wimpy.
I remember in one of the videos Adam talked about breathing thru your mouth and kind of shutting off your nose. With that in mind I tried a few bends while holding my nose. Low and behold the bends came out clear as a bell - a good half tone on the 2 draw and 2 of the 3 halftones on the 3 draw. I even had good control over them. But if I hold the bend and let go of my nose, I lose the bend almost immediately.
So, my problem seems to be breathing. I assume a lot of the air used in my bend attempt is going out the place of least resistance - my nose. Was wondering if ya'll had any suggestions on how to stop the air flow at my mouth and keep the nose shut. I'd hate to have to wear a swimmers nose clamp when I play......
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orphan
169 posts
Aug 15, 2012
4:07 PM
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Welcome mikiek! Those two holes are tough to master, and I'm still working on tone and intonation on two and three draw. It does get better! One of the things that I picked up from the Iceman on the forum here really helped me get things sorted out. He suggested playing the note and just listen as you play thinking about the position of your mouth, tongue, lips etc. What muscles are you using and are they tensed up or relaxed? Play the note you are trying to bend on a harp that has the note without any bending. Three draw bent 1/2 step is G on an A harp. Blow hole 4 on a G harp and listen to how it sounds. Relax and try to get that sound on the A harp 3 draw bent. If you notice you are bringing air through your nose when you try to bend, just play the note unbent. Check to see that you are only breathing from your diaphragm through your mouth. Then bend the note down again. If you are already getting the note to bend, you are changing the position of your tongue. Your breathing shouldn'tchange in order to bend. When I try to force things to happen, I find I use all sorts of muscles that have nothing to do with getting the sound I want. You could use the nose clamp, but if you focus on the inside of your mouth you will learn quickly how to stop the air from coming through you nose when you bend notes. Having a harp or another method to get the reference pitch develops ear training as you work on your bending technique.
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Baker
237 posts
Aug 16, 2012
2:14 AM
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Hi Mikiek. Try (without a harp), opening your mouth and making a snoring sound with your nose. The snoring sound is the soft pallet in your mouth vibrating. That is what you need to use to block off airflow through your nose. Try making the snoring sound but stop at the point when you can't breath in through your nose. That's the action you are looking for.
This is also useful when playing unbent notes, as allows you to control your tone much better too.
I hope this makes sense.
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SuperBee
505 posts
Aug 16, 2012
3:23 AM
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Mikiek, there's an exercise JimiLee showed me to help with this. I'm about to have dinner so I'll get back to you shortly. All the above is cool too.
If I recall correctly the idea is to put the harp in your mouth, breath in through the harp, out through your nose. Try to not let the air out through the harp, but don't use your tongue to block it. Try not to move your tongue. I had to plant my tongue behind my bottom teeth to keep it out of the action. Do this a bit and then change direction. I found it more difficult in through the nose without letting air in through the harp. Once you get the hang of it, try to speed it up, short little quick ones, maybe 10 at a time, then change direction. Just do this a couple of minutes, a couple times a day, for a week or so. I mean you can do it for a month or more, it won't hurt. The idea is that it makes you learn the muscle control and after a while you can just do it without thinking.
You can do it without the harp too, but with the harp is better.
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Last Edited by on Aug 16, 2012 4:05 AM
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The Iceman
401 posts
Aug 16, 2012
6:46 AM
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You can use voluntary muscle control to close the air access to your sinus. What I've found interesting is that a lot of players are unaware of where the "control spot" is.
When you blow out a candle, you will unconsciously close this flap.
Just learn where it is, what it feels like and choose to keep it closed or open.
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The Iceman
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asterix135
1 post
Aug 16, 2012
11:26 AM
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I'm also a pretty raw beginner - although maybe a little more advanced than you are, because I was facing this same issue a few months ago.
Same thing - I could bend the 4 draw well, but the 2-draw (especially) would not change tone for me - unless I pinched my nose shut when magically it did a deep bend.
I don't have an easy solution other than practice. Just keep working at it every day for at least 10 minutes (or until you're frustrated enough to give up). Keep trying different things with your tongue and throat following the general "this is how to bend a note" advice you've gotten.
For me, I started getting some shallow bends, and then got deeper as I figured out what was working and tried harder to do that. I had read somewhere that it takes 2-3 months to reliably bend the 2 draw, and that's what my experience was.
Now, I can reliably get all draw bends on a D & C harmonica. On lower keys, I can't get all the way down to the bottom on holes 2 or 3 (on an A, for example I can get 2 steps on the 3 hole and about 1 1/2 steps on the 2 hole). But I figure it'll get there. I just keep devoting time to bending exercises each night and little by little I'm getting there.
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The Iceman
403 posts
Aug 16, 2012
3:47 PM
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4 U beginners...something to consider.
1st. You've got to learn to close that flap that gives breathing access to your sinus cavity voluntarily and keep it closed during bending techniques. (Hint - it's the same flap you close when you blow out a candle).
2nd. Bending is merely a redirection of the air flow up and over your tongue - and the tongue does not have to arc up very much at all. You have to discover the "sweet spots" on the roof of your mouth - the spot your tongue touches when you say "T" "D" "K" and arc back area of your tongue towards the spots near "D" and "K".
3rd. Keep your throat open and relaxed
4th. Just inhale - don't suck in.
Play gently, arch your tongue and discover. Once you get it, you will be amazed at how little you really have to arch the tongue to produce all the bends.
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The Iceman
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