isaacullah
317 posts
Aug 27, 2009
4:03 PM
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Well, I went over to hang out with Chris Michalek (Buddha) today, to shoot the shit and to try out the Suzuki Manji, and compare it to other harps. He did some tweaking on it while I was there, and I got to play it both before and after a little Buddha tweaking. At Chris's place I compared it--both tweaked and un-tweaked--against a stock Suzuki Firebreath, a tweaked Suzuki Firebreath, a stock Hohner Golden Melody, a stock Hohner Crossover, and some of Chris's own custom harps. I also own several Marine Bands, Special 20's, Blues Harps, and a couple Seydel Solist Pros, so I can compare it to them as well.
I, like many of you, am a solid intermediate level player. I know I lack lot's of experience and know-how, but despite this, or perhaps even because of this, I think my review may be of interest to you. I'll start with a wuick summary statement: In general, the Manji is an excellent 'out of the box' harp AT THE $40 level.
The Manji is directly comparable in 'out of the box' quality to the more expensive Firebreath. After the Manji is realeased, the only reason to pay more for a Firebreath would be if you really love those firebreath/promaster style coverplates (not my cup of tea).
The Manji just blew the Hohner Crossover out of the water! Untweaked, it plays much better than your average Golden Melody, Marine Band, or Blues Harp. The Crossover was just a Marine Band with a bamboo comb. To me it seemed no different than a decent stock marine band. If you love Marine Bands, you'll probably like a crossover, but it does not seem worth the extra $$ to me.
To me, the playability of the stock Manji was quite comparable to a Seydel Soloist Pro, and it actually "feels" A LOT like a Soloist Pro in the hands and in the mouth. It plays very well.
The tone of the Manji was VERY marine band-ish. I'm not a good overblower, but I could easily get a short 6ob and a little bit of a 5ob on an A harp (which is about typical for me).
When we took it apart and held the reedplates up to the light to visually compare the tolerances between harps, here is what I saw. It was slightly tighter than a stock Firebreath. It was way tighter than the stock Golden Melody. It was not as tight as any of the Harps that Chris had worked on.
In about 15-20 minutes, Chris did some tweaking on both a Firebreath and the Manji, so I could compare them. They BOTH played MUCH better. overblows were easier, the tolerances were REALLY tight, and there was way less leaked air from both of them. Tone-wise, I preferred the Manji over the Firebreath, and I like the coverplate design of the Manji way better for my playing style and experience (The Firebreath coverplates were hard for me to get used to).
Chris's custom harps were still much better than this (Obviously), and they are definately what should be considered "the standard" when making these kinds of comparisons. The Manji comes a lot closer to this standard than all other harps in it's price range. With some farily "standard" mods (gapping, embossing, etc.) the Manji becomes a fantastic harp--easily the BEST $40 harp you'll be able to buy. Until this point, I would have said that the Seydel Soloist Pro would be your best ~$40 harp, but I would now have to say that if this is you harmonica "price point" you ought to save your money and buy a Manji. If you are spending $80-$100 on stock harps, you are crazy. You can get a MUCH MUCH MUCH better harp in that price range from Chris.
By the way, Chris lent me his pedal board for the weekend, so look out for a YouTube video of yours truly playing through it. If you are curious what professional-level effect pedals can do for an average harp player, then that video should interest you...
Cheers,
Isaac
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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jonsparrow
858 posts
Aug 27, 2009
4:22 PM
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nice write up. but is there such thing as average-level effect pedals? pedals are pedals.
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Buddha
953 posts
Aug 27, 2009
4:35 PM
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Nice write up Issac!
Jon Sparrow, I think there is a difference. For example, I have a vintage Boss DM-2 in the board, most amateurs aren't going to have one of those. Most hobby-level players probably aren't going to have a HOG either. All in all, I have several thousands of dollars in that board; something hobby-level players aren't going to do unless they have money to burn.
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tookatooka
420 posts
Aug 27, 2009
4:36 PM
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Isaacullah. Thank you very much for doing that for us, I can tell you it is very much appreciated. I'm looking forward to ordering one just as soon as they become available. THANKS.
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When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
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Aussiesucker
339 posts
Aug 27, 2009
5:09 PM
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Sounds good. Thanks Isaac for the review. Just a few questions?
1) confirm the tuning?
2) where is it made ie Japan or China? Not that this makes any difference other than price which sounds good.
I have tentatively placed an order with a local internet based outlet who is yet unable to confirm price or availability.
Interestingly I understand the local Suzuki agent/ distributor is not yet considering to import the Manji!!
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isaacullah
319 posts
Aug 27, 2009
5:17 PM
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I'm glad you guys like it so far. Jon, yes there are "average-level" effects. All the effects I own are very average. I have a Danelctro Fab echo (modified by me to have adjustable delay time) that cost $15 new and took about another $2 in parts and about an hour of time to mod. I have a Danelectro Fish and Chips equalizer ($25), and Starcaster (no name Fender knock off) Chorus pedal ($18, closeout special). These are all quite average, but good for the $$ pedals. I just did a little intial tour around Chris's pedal board, and WOW, you can't even compare my crappy stuff with what he has. That HOG is fickin' AMAZING. And the Echo Park is damn cool too, as well as the DM-2. Ridiculous. I'll work with it a little more, then I'll make a video sometime this weekend...
~Isaac
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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isaacullah
320 posts
Aug 27, 2009
5:22 PM
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Aussiesucker: I'm one of those guy's who does not really hear much difference between TET and Compromise chords. It's not tuned like a marine band, but the TONE is very marine band like. The tuning was just like that of the firebreath, which I think is tuned equal. The chords sounded pretty good to me, and I play marine bands all the time. I have no idea where they are going to be making them. I would suppose it to be Japan since harps of this quality are not generally made in china (usually it's your $15 and lower ones that get made in China).
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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Aussiesucker
340 posts
Aug 27, 2009
6:04 PM
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Thanks Isaac. Havn't tried a Firebreath but have plenty of Suzuki harps incl Promasters, Bluesmasters, Harpmasters & the Chinese made Folkmaster.
I actually love my little Folkmasters. Great tone, tight, well made & inexpensive (cheap?). Conversely what is not so great is volume and tacky cover plates. I fix the volume problem by prying the covers further apart at the rear. The Manji would not worry me if indeed it were made in China.
What is noticeable about the Manji is the comb which is actually a comb shape as opposed to the plastic bodies with enclosed chambers as used on SP20s, Bluesmasters, Harpmasters, Lee Oskars etc.
The Manji comb with flush protruding reed plates looks similar to MB's, Blues Harps, Promasters and Folkmasters. Begs the question, which I know has been discussed before, as to what advantage this comb design might bring? For me it means a little (lot) less comfort but an improvement in my embouchure ie better mouth contact. What are the findings of others?
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Zhin
328 posts
Aug 27, 2009
7:14 PM
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That's an interesting review and thank you for sharing that Isaac. I wished we got to hang out while I was at Chris's place!!
I personally found the Manji to play very differently and sound different from a Marine Band. I don't know why but it's just what my tiny little asian ears tell me.
I have compared a stock MB and Manji in C so I'm pretty sure.
I think the Manji uses Equal Temperement (ET) tuning as opposed to the MB's Just Intonation (JI) tuning. ET tuning typically sounds harsher on the chords but more pronounced and on pitch with the single notes. What surprised me a lot was the fact that the Manji did not sound too harsh which is a very good thing.
The Manji has a more mellow tone (less brightness) which could be attributed to the thicker/denser coverplate design. It's not a bad thing as I always personally felt the MB can be a little too sharp sounding at times, especially on the higher keyed harps.
Also, the reeds of the Manji feel slightly harder to manipulate/bend compared to the MB which was significantly easier or softer to play. This is my only gripe but maybe it could just be a gapping/tolerence issue or my breathing technique that's incompatible which is easily resolved by breaking out some of those custom tools... >:D
Though what I'm doing here is just a basic comparison between 2 stock model and nothing more.
As far as stock harps go, the Manji is clearly better. Oh, and the fact that it uses a composite comb just makes the deal all the more sweeter. Basically you can dunk the thing in liquids and play as sloppy as you want and never have to worry about swelling/warping harps. Of course, if you're into custom harps, this wouldn't be an issue... ever.
I'm looking forward to seeing this great harp put on shelves so I can pick some up. :)
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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin
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Zhin
329 posts
Aug 27, 2009
7:26 PM
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Aussiesucker, combs like that generally make it easier to bend/overblow notes based on the principle that the closer your mouth is to the reed, the better control you will get on that reed.
Those combs obviously try to help bring your mouth closer to those reeds. Though of course, different models will play differently. There are too many other permutations that can affect things.
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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin
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isaacullah
321 posts
Aug 27, 2009
8:29 PM
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Zhin, good to hear from ya! It's been a while since you've posted over here, no? Yeah, too bad we didn't get a chance to hang, I did not know you were coming down here...
I know what you mean about the Manji being "mellower" than a Marine Band. I think that you are correct that the coverplates have a lot to do with that. I didn't head to head it with MB, so I'm only comparing memories (though I'm pretty damn sure I know what a Marine Band sounds like--I hear it in my sleep! :) ). To me, while the Manji was definitely mellower (ie. less brassy), the overall timbre of the tone was very marine band-ish. I think if you put MB covers on the Manji, or visce versa Manji coverplates on the Marine Band they would be very similar sounding. Could be the style of the reeds, could be the vented coverplates, could be a combo of several things, but the color of the sound (again, minus the brassines and the tuning style) were very similar to my ears... But everyone hears things differently, so I could just be FOS.
Cheers,
Isaac
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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Zhin
331 posts
Aug 28, 2009
1:00 AM
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Well if you're FOS then maybe you should go do more of that bathroom woodshedding. ;P
Naw but seriously your opinion is valid.
The side vents of the Manji do lend a similar effect/sound like the MB. The dimensions of the reeds are kinda similar in a sense because they are long and narrow type reeds (not entirely certain though).
Personally I think both harps are pretty different from each other in a lot of ways but that's what I like about it! :)
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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin
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MrVerylongusername
487 posts
Sep 03, 2009
7:42 AM
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For those who don't follow the Harp-L discussions, there has been some discussion about the Manji pricing. It seems that the $39 figure that is floating around is somewhat optimistic. In the UK, according to one poster, retail will be £55 ($89) and in the States the MSRP will be $60 (according to Brendan Power). The $39 figure is the minimal advertised price i.e. your best deal.
Another awaited harp ends with pricing disappointment for us Brits!
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Kingley
350 posts
Sep 03, 2009
8:27 AM
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Yes so true MrV!!
Well we Brits always get screwed on the price of musical gear. Whether it be mics, amps, guitars, harps, etc.
To me though it makes no difference as to the price of the Manji.
I will continue to play Marine Bands which I customise myself. As they are the best harps I have ever played!
In over 20 years of playing I have never found a harp that even comes close to a Marine Band.
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tookatooka
443 posts
Sep 03, 2009
8:35 AM
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Yeah, kind of pisses me off. Rip-Off Britain. How is it the HarpMaster is $20 in the US yet over here in the UK it's £23? I wouldn't pay £55. How dissapointing. £30 would have been about right in my opinion. Maybe if the replacement reedplates are reasonably priced we could get those and fit them in our ProMasters, BluesMasters and Delta Frosts if they fit. Looks like the holes line up.
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When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
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Zhin
350 posts
Sep 03, 2009
8:50 AM
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So apparently the Manji uses a compromised tuning just like the Marine Band.
But the chords sound very different when compared back to back. I wonder why.
And I could have sworn I asked someone in the Suzuki showroom at SPAH told me it was ET tuning as well. Ah well.
Why do the chords sound so different though?
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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin
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tookatooka
444 posts
Sep 03, 2009
8:59 AM
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I may be wrong here Zhin, hopefully someone will correct me if I am.
Marine Band is JI Tuned
Manji is Compromised tuned.
Compromise is a compromise between JI and TET.
Hence difference in chord sounds.
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When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
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MrVerylongusername
488 posts
Sep 03, 2009
10:04 AM
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The Marine Band hasn't been JI for a long time. It too is a compromise tuning. Good point about the reedplates though!
Last Edited by on Sep 03, 2009 10:06 AM
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isaacullah
324 posts
Sep 03, 2009
10:43 AM
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Yes, I agree that while the Manji is a great harp, $60 is TOO STEEP for it. $40 would be just about right IMO. And I also don't understand how a harp can appreciate $20 in value before it even comes out. What's up with that? I played the Manji, and it was really great, but I also know that many of the improvements to the harp also involved improvements in the manufacturing process. This means that Suzuki isn't really increasing their overhead too much by making the Manji. So why jack the price?
Also, especially considering that you can get a firebreath for about $60 here in the States already. Are they going to drop the price of the firebreath then, and replace it in their tier with the Manji?
Anyway, this news really disappoints me... I was so optimistic about this, and now the rug has been pulled out from under that.
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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harpwrench
81 posts
Sep 03, 2009
10:46 AM
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Pardon the pun, but compromised tunings aren't all equal. har har har
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tookatooka
445 posts
Sep 03, 2009
10:49 AM
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This what Brendan said on the Harp-l site. It may not be as bad as we think.
Quote.
Just to clarify on the Manji price, $39.95 is the MAP (Minimum Advertised Price). The MSRP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price) will be $59.95 in the USA. That's the price advertised on the Suzuki USA site, the official Suzuki distributor.
The prices you can buy the Manji at from other outlets will fall between the MAP and MSRP range over time,ï as is normal for all harmonicas. You just have to search online to see this is the case, where prices for established models can be bought for considerably lower than the MSRP. That will happen for the Manji too, as stocks increase.
It's your choice whether you wait for the price to drop or order now at the MSRP.
End Quote.
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When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
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isaacullah
326 posts
Sep 03, 2009
10:55 AM
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hmm... well, I guess that's not quite as bad as I originally thought. It still feels a bit disingenuous to have bandied about that $39.95 figure so much when the harp was being revealed, only to say that that's the THEORETICAL minimum price, and the actual price could be as high as $59.95. I wonder how long we'll have to wait before we see a price drop? Seeing as manufacturers seem to be raising the price of harps by about $5 every two years, I wonder if we will ever actually get to see that $39.95 price anywhere? I don't know, this is still a bit depressing news...
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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Maciekdraheim
43 posts
Sep 03, 2009
11:40 AM
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Last friday I also had a chance to test it during the Brendan Powers workshops in Bydgoszcz, Poland. One guy also tweaked it a bit, so I was blowing in a "custom" Manji. I'm impressed with it. Fast reaction, very nice tone, ease of playing. I'm not an overblower, but on this one those notes were popping up without any effort and I could play them long. Very good harp!
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snakes
340 posts
Sep 03, 2009
12:01 PM
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For what it is worth I have just converted my harp preference in the last 6 months to the Suzuki Fire Breath. I too am anxious to try the Manji to see if the tuning makes the tone difference noticeable to me (I am just an intermediate). My point is about pricing. If I was to order my Fire Breath's from the Suzuki USA website they would cost $99.95 (US dollars) with shipping added as an extra cost. I order from another reputable dealer in the US and they are delivered to my door for $65.00. So we'll just have to wait and see and make sure we shop around to see what the cost of the Manji will actually be for us cost conscious shoppers. Hope this helps.
Last Edited by on Sep 03, 2009 12:02 PM
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jaymcc28
136 posts
Sep 03, 2009
12:02 PM
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Hi All: I work with retailers and I'm pretty familiar with the whole "MAP vs MSRP" pricing. It's actually pretty popular in the ski equipment industry. Almost all ski shops sell at MAP. Go look at a pair of skis and the price tag will probably say "MSRP: $350, Our Price: $275". The "Our Price" in this case is most likely MAP.
A MAP is set by the manufacturer to help out the smaller "mom and pop" stores. By setting a MAP it keeps the Big Box retailers (i.e. Best Buy, Walmart) from selling products as loss leaders. It also helps the "brick and mortor" stores that have a high overhead, compete with the internet outlets that have relatively low overhead.
Brendan is right that the Manji will probably initially sell somewhere between MAP and MSRP but it will also come down in price. Vendors will set the price based on (among other things) a) the cost that they paid compared to the margin they want to realize, b)Availability of the Manji compared to the market demand, and c) what the competition is selling them for.
You can also use MAP to your advantage. Let your vendor know, particularly the smaller shops that value your business, that you know MAP is $39.95 and that you're willing to hunt for the vendor that will get close to that. By the way, MAP doesn't mean the lowest price that can be CHARGED, only ADVERTISED.
I agree with Isaac that it is a shame that the $40 price was being thrown around so much when the manufacturer themselves intend to charge $60. But, hey, that's Capitalism.
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congaron
103 posts
Sep 03, 2009
4:49 PM
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DOn't forget, suzuki has establ;ished itself as a "bang for the buck" company, especially in harmonicas. I really expect to see the manji right at or about 40 bucks on the web. I bet a little sweet talking will get it there if it isn't.
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Zhin
352 posts
Sep 03, 2009
6:58 PM
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"Pardon the pun, but compromised tunings aren't all equal. har har har "
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH XD
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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin
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jonsparrow
927 posts
Sep 03, 2009
7:33 PM
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lol only something real harp nerds would understand ^^
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snakes
343 posts
Sep 03, 2009
7:38 PM
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jonsparrow - you ever get out to Seattle area look me up and I'll buy ya' a drink (or a coffee if that is yer' druthers). Stay cool man. Nice harpin' on summertime btw.
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The Gloth
327 posts
Mar 30, 2010
6:42 AM
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I finally got the Manji I ordered last year. At first try, I'm not convinced by it at all. It's louder than average harps,but I find the tone is nothing special. It's not air-tight, even less than a blues harp. And some bends are difficult to get. Maybe I'm unlucky and got a Manji not well set out...
I really hate to open a harp and work on the reeds, it's not my thing at all, but I may have to learn how to do it so I can play that damn thing... buggers !
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Philosofy
347 posts
Mar 30, 2010
6:55 AM
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You just got it??? After my Christmas fiasco with Coast to Coast, I've ordered 5 from Rockin Ron's, and always got them within 3 days.
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The Gloth
329 posts
Mar 30, 2010
7:13 AM
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Well, I ordered it through a music shop, and at the time it wasn't available for Belgium yet. The shop was supposed to phone me when they got it, but they didn't and I eventually forget the thing.
Today I went to the shop to buy some harps and see if they got the valved Promaster in C that I ordered more recently. The girl went looking in the arrivals and shows me a Manji in D. I said it wasn't the promaster, but I was interested in the Manji anyway. Her answer : "sorry but it's an ordered harp, it's reserved for someone". Me : "oh, too bad... hey wait ! I think it's me who ordered it !". And that was the case.
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ness
175 posts
Mar 30, 2010
8:40 AM
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Maybe it needs a little break-in too?
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Harpengr
2 posts
Oct 19, 2010
12:23 PM
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Does anybody know anything about replacement reed plates for the Manji?
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snakes
581 posts
Oct 19, 2010
4:14 PM
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Check with Rockin' Ron in San Diego. He is here => http://www.rockinronsmusic4less.com/index.html
Hope this helps.
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