528hemi
326 posts
Nov 30, 2012
12:48 PM
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I am going to take a look at a 1998 59 bassman reissue on Sunday. He is the original owner and only played teh amp in the house. The amp is in mint condition. It has the blue eminence speakers.
Were all the amps from 1990 through 1998 all the same or are there differences? Does it matter if the amp is a 1990 or 1998? I understand with tube changes alone, this amp can sound great.
Is 550.00 a decent price for this amp?
Thank you,
528hemi
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Joe_L
2199 posts
Nov 30, 2012
1:37 PM
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Yes, it is a good price. All of the reissue Bassman's that I have seen for less than $600 have been real beaters. That's a lot of amp for "inside the house."
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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FMWoodeye
493 posts
Nov 30, 2012
2:08 PM
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I paid $800 for one recently. It had the recommended tube changes, so all I had to do was plug in and play. I have a difficult time getting it up and down stairs, though
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528hemi
327 posts
Nov 30, 2012
4:08 PM
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Here are some pictures
Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2012 4:17 PM
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Rick Davis
941 posts
Nov 30, 2012
4:58 PM
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Yes, it is a good price. Buy it.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
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bonedog569
732 posts
Dec 01, 2012
12:19 AM
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Very good price - with those blue alnico's. I paid a tad less for one in equally good condition, - but it had the green Jensen repro's which sounded pretty bad till I combined them with two other speakers.
Take a look at Rick's page on laquering. Once you fall in love with the amp - it's something you may want to do. A bit messy and time consuming, but not technically hard.
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Rick Davis
945 posts
Dec 01, 2012
8:55 AM
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Yeah, you are gonna want to brush some lacquer on that bad boy. Use Minwax Polyshades Satin Classic Oak.
My project amp
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
Last Edited by on Dec 01, 2012 10:56 AM
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Willspear
228 posts
Dec 01, 2012
9:25 AM
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Eminence blue frames are one of the best harp speakers around.
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528hemi
328 posts
Dec 01, 2012
11:03 AM
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Thanks Rick...I will definitely lacquer the amp and thank you for the link. I never lacquered before.
Is it fair to say volume wise the bassman would be equivilent to a Super Cruncher? After I am done I will probably sell one or the other depending on my liking.
What is the consensus for tube mods for the amp? I saw some videos on David Barretts site where Mark Overlan(SP?) tubes were 5U4 rectifyer, V1 5at7, V2 5au7, V3 5ay7. He also added a bias control and changed a few resister Wattages to handle more current.
Are there any links to the best mods for this amp?
Thanks again,
528hemi
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Rick Davis
946 posts
Dec 01, 2012
11:14 AM
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The Bassman will be way louder and more present than the Super Cruncher. 4x10 Bassman-type amps have a distinctive sound.
The mods you listed are good with the exception of the 12AT7 tube in V1. I would strongly suggest a 5751 or a 12AY7 in that socket. The 12AU7 in the secondary gain stage is very good. The 12AY7 in the phase inverter is also good.
Yes, a bias trim pot and more robust plate load resistors where you use the 12AU7 tubes. That should get you started toward a very nice amp.
There is info at my blog about the steps I took when modding my Bassman.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
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Joe_L
2201 posts
Dec 01, 2012
12:15 PM
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Personally, I wouldn't mod it. I would just make the tube substitutions that Mark Overman picked. I've played through that Bassman after making just the tube swaps and bias adjustments. It is a fine sounding amp. The speaker swap he did improved the sound, but vintage Jensen P10Q's are getting pricey.
It should louder than a Super Cruncher. I dropped off a couple of amps for David Barrett's amp comparison a few years ago. The only amps louder than his Bassman were the Harp Kings and the 6 foot tall Wezo 45 stack.
When it was all said and done, I wouldnt be surprised if Mark sunk as much dough into that amp as it would have cost him to buy a Sonny Jr, but it does sound really good. David Barrett has done one, too.
Gary Smith has been running around with some sort of home grown Bassman thing lately, too. He wouldn't answer any questions about the amp. I guess it's his new secret weapon.
I would play it after swapping the tubes before going any further. You may like the sound as is.
The Baseman is making a comeback.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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528hemi
330 posts
Dec 01, 2012
12:36 PM
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Hi Joe,
Yes, I am going to make the exact tube changes as Mark, including the 12At7 in V1 and then put in a 5751 suggested by Rick to see which I like better.
I will need to install a Bias Pot and most likely up the wattage ratings on a few resisters to be safe, not change thier values then Stain it and should be good.
Maybe I will keep both amps then. Guess could say 1 large, 1 medium and I have a 10/12 watter which not really small but will leave it in that catagory.
528hemi
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Joe_L
2203 posts
Dec 01, 2012
12:49 PM
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I talked to Mark about this once. He started with a tube combo that Sonny Jr put into his modded reissue Baseman. I don't remember what it was. He lifted it off an amp that Sonny Jr had on eBay a few years back. Mark knows a lot about tone. I like the look of those amp unlacquered.
It never hurts to have a big, medium and small amp.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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528hemi
331 posts
Dec 01, 2012
1:00 PM
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Well maybe I wont lacquer it. :) I am pretty careful with keeping my amps clean. And if I do not like the amp for any reason I can sell her and let the new owner decide what they like.
528hemi
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Mojokane
622 posts
Dec 01, 2012
7:48 PM
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You're teasing, right?
...shitty amp, give me the guys number...
He should be ashamed of himself for trying to sell you something that sucks for harp. Grab a Sonny Jr.
Seriously, if you met Buddha on the street would you kill him?
They are a staple for the player who needs gear for every size venue. ...you'd be crazy to not buy it.
That is an absolute steal....and a half! A 10 out of 10!
A grand slam...you have been blessed!
and messing with the tweed is a sketchy deal...not easy to do...I'd leave it, like you say. Wait til you hear it. You'll fall in love. I have one(90). And nearly threw my back out hauling it up my stairs, too.
That's the only downside.
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Why is it that we all just can't get along?<
Last Edited by on Dec 01, 2012 7:57 PM
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Rick Davis
948 posts
Dec 01, 2012
8:49 PM
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Joe is right: You should play the amp for a while before deciding to mod it at all. Mark Wenner of the Nighthawks plays a stock early 90s Bassman RI and he sounds pretty good. You can't really get the volume over 2 1/2 but the amp is still good.
Yes, the Minwax is not a true lacquer but so what? It looks good and does the job well; keeps the tweed from fraying and gives it a very cool golden color. I learned about it from pro guitar friends.
I agree about having big/medium/and small amps. I have Bassman/Mission/Champ. Pretty much covers all the bases.
JD, I had a silverface Twin for about a year, with big Altec speakers. It weighed nearly 100 lbs. Stock Bassman RI is about 53 pounds; mine is 63 pounds from two ceramic speakers and other tweaks. It is heavy. Now it is on wheels, so not too much of a drag. But I wouldn't want to lug it up 3 flights of stairs.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
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Rick Davis
949 posts
Dec 01, 2012
8:52 PM
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528Hemi, yep that is the stuff and that is where I bought it.
Minwax at Home Depot
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
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SuperBee
677 posts
Dec 01, 2012
10:48 PM
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Nice find! We don't see them at that price over here. Cheapest I've seen is twice that. More usually $1300. Don't see many. Even my old DeVille (97) was $900.
Yeah, large medium small. And a spare in each category. And something weird. And something to experiment with. And maybe a small medium, and a medium large....
I love my 410.
That's a great series of videos Mark and David made about the Bassman. He did another one with a later version too, and Gary Smith brought his original reissue in. Lots of AB comparisons and guys who know what they're talking about
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Greg Heumann
1871 posts
Dec 02, 2012
8:42 AM
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I would buy it in a heartbeat at that price.
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/Greg
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528hemi
332 posts
Dec 02, 2012
9:35 AM
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Just picked it up and it is in the trunk of my car :) I do not find it heavy. I was suprised. It is really Mint! The original manual and hang tag included, He even swapped out v1 to a 12At7 and V2 to a 12Ay7 to save me a few more dollars. He had new tubes in the box. I check my super cruncher and it has a 12At7 in V1 and 12Au7's for V2 and V3
This amp was originally on Ebay starting at $675 with a buy it now at $745 with 40 shipping. So sent him an eamil and said if it did not sell I will give him $550 and pick it up.
Now to sneak it into the house when the wife goes out. :)
I cant wait to check it out. I am not going to laquer it. I like it the way it is right now. It is that clean!.
Does anyone have a link to how to add a Bias control to this amp or exactly which resisters to up the wattages ratings to be safe running a 12Ay7 in V2 and a 12aU7 in V3?
If I set the tubes up like this and play for 5 minutes, will it blow the stock resisters?
528hemi
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2012 9:45 AM
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5F6H
1432 posts
Dec 02, 2012
10:20 AM
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Discharge the caps on the RI by unplugging the amp from the wall & throwing the Standby switch into play mode...this drains the caps (ON THE RI ONLY, not on original 5F6As or on many repros) in about 30 secs.
Bias control - buy the bias pot kit from Kendrick (replaces R41 with a 50K, top adjust, multi turn cermet trim pot, glue in place use solid core hook up wire), you may also still need to reduce the value of R40 to explore the full range of possible bias current settings, maybe 4.7K here or 10K depending on rectifier. I'd go low here like 4.7K or 6.8K (6.8K total would be a 10K 1/2W resistor in parallel with the 22K at R40), because the cermet pot at R41 will allow you to bring the bias up to any level. R40 mod is easy to do, relatively, just tack a new resistor in parallel with the 22K value that's already there.
V1 & V2 will be fine with 12AY, 12AT, 5751, 12AX7 with the stock plate resistors.
The plate resistors for V3 are R28 (82K grey/red/or) and R29 (brn/blk/yel) use 1W carbon film types...bigger W rating *if* you can find some that fit. However, I would say that the Super Cruncher/Super Sonny/Avenger circuit is a little different to the RI, so using a 12AU7 in V3 does not have quite the same effect (doesn't mean that you shouldn't try it, or that you won't like it...just that a higher mu tube like 5751/12AX7 often works fine in the RI). Running the amp for a few minutes with a 12AU7 in V3 is very unlikely to kill anything, if you want to try it to see if it is a goer.
When firing up to set bias the first time remove the power tubes, power up, set the negative voltage at pin 5 of the power tubes to -60vdc. Power down, fit power tubes & power up again to set exactly by mA.
If you are not familiar with working around high voltage circuits, or have no idea of what I just said actually means, get a tech/suitably qualified person to do the work.
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www.myspace.com/markburness
http://www.facebook.com/markburness
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2012 10:22 AM
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528hemi
333 posts
Dec 02, 2012
11:16 AM
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Thanks Mark! Exactly what I need to know.
Was just going to buy a dual bias meter. Looks like with that meter you just plug it into the tube socket
connect your multimeter set on milliamps and read the settings?
528hemi
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harmonicanick
1765 posts
Dec 02, 2012
11:34 AM
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they sell for £800+ here in the uk
snap it up before someone else
best amp apart from ampeg or sonny
you need to be young and strong!!
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5F6H
1433 posts
Dec 02, 2012
11:44 AM
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Yes, that's a good plan, it's a relatively safe way to set bias. Check whether the adaptors you order are read in milliamps, or millivolts (they can come configured either way depending on from whom you buy - most have a 1ohm resistor in series with the tube cathode, in the socket adaptor, & are read in millivolts, which then convert directly to miliamps).
The adaptors are great for checking amps like BF amps that have an externally accessible bias pot, as you don't need to disturb the chassis. Another option for the RI (as you have to remove the back panel anyway) is to remove the yellow (ground) wires that run to pins 8 & 1 of each power tube socket. Link pin 1 & 8 of each socket individually, with the lead of one end of a 1ohm 2W resistor (one resistor each per tube socket), bend the resistor body up & away from the socket & reconnect the yellow wire to the free end (keeping everything short & tidy). You can then read bias, to ground, in millivolts at the bare jumper lead between pins 1 & 8 (this is supported at both ends by the socket pins). Resistors should be matched & read exactly 1ohm ("zero" your meter by crossing the probes in the ohms setting and deducting any default reading like, e.g. "0.3ohms", 1ohm resistors will then read 1.3ohms).
...but I'd still prefer the discrete probes, as they can be used on any 6L6/6V6/EL34/6550/KT88 amp.
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www.myspace.com/markburness
http://www.facebook.com/markburness
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2012 11:47 AM
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Mojokane
623 posts
Dec 02, 2012
1:12 PM
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Glad you grabbed it. That was a no brainer.
Like Superbee stated. The need for small, medium, and large amps,...and a back up for each as well...is so true.
Occasionally, I too will delve in to "the weird, and something to experiment with" categories.
Here's my latest gear candy. For you eyes only..
Ofcourse, the Kalamazoo One head is self explanatory, ...and we all know how it sounds.
The other head was something I got off Ebay a couple months ago. A 1959 Philco console mono amp. It was that weird shaped thing I showed the forum a while back. With the output transformer on the backside, and knobs on the sides, too. Which made it hard to put in a small size head cab.
I was so stoked at how good it sounded, I hastily made this cab just to take it out and play it ASAP. At such a low investment (off Ebay), it was a good start at something uniquely mine.
I asked Ellis Bourbonais to help me out...
He did..out of pity. And some cash/barter deals, too.
LOL! you gotta laugh at my work. I laughed, too.
But this is waay nicer lookin...NO?
He ended up with this...a work of art. And alot of modifications to get it to fit. He's amazing.
I did the peripherals like glides, handle, etc.
The speaker cab has a Rola alnico 12. Nice big tone, lots of bottom. And does the whole spectrum really well. Good for a Model One(5 watt), yet able to handle the 6L6's (25-30 watt).
The over all results have made it worth it. Just try to find a matching set of cabs like these.
I haven't tallied the over all investment. There was plenty of barter, too.
Hey, 528hemi, didn't mean to high jack your thread..
You got the Bassman!!!...good one.
That's a good step toward having a great set of amps at your disposal.
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Why is it that we all just can't get along?<
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2012 1:17 PM
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Rgsccr
124 posts
Dec 02, 2012
1:35 PM
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I want to follow Rick's advice and laquer my '90s Bassman '59 reissue. I read his description on the amp blog, and it sounds easy enough. Please forgive my ignorance, but I have a couple of couple of questions. What exactly are the chassis and the baffle? Rick recommends removing the chassis and loosening the baffle to be able to move it back a bit. Also, is it absolutely necessary to do this, or could you leave them as is and really mask everything off. Thanks. Rich
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2012 1:37 PM
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5F6H
1434 posts
Dec 02, 2012
2:53 PM
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The chassis is the chrome metal amplifier part with the knobs, input sockets, transformers & tubes in it. You could mask off, but it would look a bit naff if you ever came to sell the amp.
To remove the chassis, unplug the amp from the wall AC. Throw the standby into play mode.
Undo the 4 corner screws on the upper back panel that covers the chassis (don't worry about the screws that hold the tube cage if your amp has one, leave the cage attached to the back panel). Gently remove the power tubes & rectifier tube (making sure they are cool to the touch first, use a gentle, circular rocking motion & make sure the metal clips aren't stopping the tubes from coming out, by pushing them up towards the chassis) & put the tubes somewhere safe.
The chassis & circuitry is now exposed, but you can't be shocked by anything as long as you leave the standby in "play" and don't reconnect to the wall AC (even so, don't poke about in there in case you damage anything) Undo the 4 corner screws that hold the lower back panel & remove it
Gently but firmly pull out the 4 RCA connectors that carry the speaker wires from the bottom of the chassis, between the preamp & power tubes. Unscrew the AC cord strain relief , plastic "P" clip that is screwed to the inside wall of the wooden cabinet.
Remove the amp's handle. Start to unscrew the 2 screws that run through the wooden cabinet, one at each end of the control panel, the chassis will start to loosen and drop away from the cab. There is a bracket at the AC cord end of the chassis that will support the heavy, power transformer end of the amp but don't undo the screws & nuts all the way, just loosen them so the nuts turn with finger pressure when the chassis is not bearing against them. Supporting the chassis so it doesn't clank about too much, turn the amp upside down (a sofa can be a good place to rest the cab supported by the seat backs, or the edge of a bench with the chassis screws just overhanging so you can still access the screw heads & their nuts). Undo the 2 chassis screws & nuts the rest of the way, remove the screws & slide out the chassis, the output transformer in the middle of the back of the chassis is a good handhold, support the heavy power transformer/AC cord end of the chassis too.
You can now see the 3 screws at the very top of the speaker baffle & their nuts, and the 3 screw at the very bottom of the speaker baffle, to loosen if required.
Reverse the entire procedure to re-install MAKE SURE THE SPEAKERS ARE RECONNECTED BEFORE POWERING UP, or you will kill your power tubes, possibly the output transformer too.
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www.myspace.com/markburness
http://www.facebook.com/markburness
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5F6H
1435 posts
Dec 02, 2012
2:53 PM
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Duplicate post deleted.
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www.myspace.com/markburness
http://www.facebook.com/markburness
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2012 2:54 PM
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Rgsccr
125 posts
Dec 02, 2012
3:21 PM
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Thanks Mark
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528hemi
334 posts
Dec 02, 2012
4:21 PM
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So far I played around with some tube swaps and like
for V1 12Ay7 (the AT7 was to much gain), V2 12Ay7 and V3 12Au7. I dont have a 5U4 rectifier tube so it has the 5AR4 and is starting to sound pretty good. The 5U4 sould make a nice difference. Then I will Bias it to probably between 30 and 35 to my liking. The stock 6L6 tubes are not that good. I tried the Groove tubes from the super cruncher and it sounded better. I am going to order a matched pair of JJ's
I am really liking the Tone...It is my sound.
Thanks for all the advise.
528hemi.
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Rick Davis
950 posts
Dec 02, 2012
4:46 PM
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5F6h, thank you for the nicely detailed instructions for removing the chassis and loosening the baffle.
Rgsccr, The baffle can be reluctant to move, so you may have to gently insist. Just keep working at it.
My Bassman was the same color as 528Hemi's but not so clean. The finish and stain really make a big difference, and they protect the tweed. When it is naked it just absorbs whatever moisture touches it.
If you want to keep the same yellowish color tweed you can use colorless Minwax. I chose that particular color because it was recommended by some pro guitar buddies. I saw their tweed amps and really dug the look.
BTW... that was the first and only time I had done this. It came out really nice.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
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Rgsccr
126 posts
Dec 02, 2012
5:29 PM
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Thanks Rick
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bonedog569
733 posts
Dec 02, 2012
9:05 PM
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I pulled off the metal "bassman" tag before laquering too. You get accest to the front of the middle baffled screw that way, and can lacquer that area more easily. It's just four small nails - or tacks, that hold it in place. If you remove the baffle completely the cabinet will be easy to maneuver. I hung mine up in the garage with some wire hanger I poked through the handle holes on top, twisted below, then suspended from a pipe above. If you leave it in cover it with cardboard and blue painters tape on the edges.
I tried a coat of diluted amber shellac, didn't love the color so I then used lacquer flakes. There was no problem using both, in that order anyway -there are a number of different approaches and they all work. Here are a few links - if you want to obsess over it first. (I did - but you don't need to)
I say play and tweak it first , after you fall in love, you'll want to doll your baby up.
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2673331-Lacquering-tweed
http://gretschpages.com/forum/other-amps/lacquering-tweed/10882/page1/
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/amp-central-station/2710-lacquering-tweed-cabinet.html
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Rick Davis
951 posts
Dec 02, 2012
11:10 PM
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Bonedog, I removed the Bassman badge on the front of the amp and the big silver plaque thing on the back, and after the I was finished lacquering the amp I decide to leave them off. They are still off after more than a year. I like it better that way.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
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6SN7
207 posts
Dec 07, 2012
8:58 AM
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I hope you are enjoying your amp.
What I like about the 4x10 is they get a great tone (once dialed in) and you can get a convey real visceral of the harp to the audience. You hear it and feel it in your gut.
Yeah, its heavy, but whatever, I think the weight thing is highly over rated and the bigbox has some great attributes to it.
I know folks love to swap out tubes, to improve tone,but I have found speaker selection to be equally important.
I do not care for the Fender OEM speakers and the new Italian Jensens.
I like the weber alnicos, along with one or two ceramics as they deliver a nice punch. I have had success using old jensens that have been reconed. Whatever sounds good to you, its all about playing around with the amp. Good luck, you have an excellent place to start.
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walterharp
996 posts
Dec 07, 2012
11:01 AM
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does anybody else put these up on a stand?
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1847
394 posts
Dec 07, 2012
11:13 AM
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i typically put it on top of a flight case
i have a step stool i'll use on occasion
sometimes on the floor
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528hemi
344 posts
Dec 07, 2012
11:59 AM
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So far I changed the rectifier tube to a Vintage RCA 5u4 and changed a few preamp tubes and the amp is really responding!!! Waiting for some more tubes and Pot to rebias... I see thsi thing is goign to be a monster!
I am liking it. As mentioned, it is louder then my Super Cruncher. I learned so much, Now I am going to dial in the Super cruncher to my liking as well. I always like the cleaner tone of the bassman until you lean into it. I wonder if I Bias the super cruncher higher if it will smooth out alot more and sound closer to the bassman?
528hemi
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Rick Davis
993 posts
Dec 07, 2012
1:29 PM
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Yep, fun, eh? The Bassman RI is a monsta!
I use a vintage JAN GE 5R4 rectifier tube. Lotsa sag, seems a bit darker. But the 5U4 sounds great too, especially the old NOS tubes.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
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