A couple of days ago, I had a discussion here about chromatic harmonica positions. I expressed the opinion that there are 12 positions on any harmonica and therefore playing in Eb on a C harmonica was 10th position.
Several people told me I was screwy, that Eb was an alternate 3rd position. It seems that many people divide chromatic harmonica positions into two sets: the button-out set and the button-in set, like this:
C chromatic, button out:
Position Key -------- --- 1st C 2nd G 3rd D 4th A 5th E 6th B 12th F
C chromatic, button in:
Position Key -------- --- 1st Db 2nd Ab 3rd Eb 4th Bb 5th F 6th C 12th Gb/F#
So, if that's the case, what positions are C and F on a C chromatic harmonica?
It seems to me that positions are a phenomenon associated with diatonic instruments. I never heard the term used the way a it is used here, until I started playing harmonica. No one ever talked about playing a sax or a clarinet in 3rd position, even though the sax is in Eb and the clarinet in Bb. You just played in a key. You did have to be careful to state concert pitch or instrument pitch so the sax and clarinet would be in the same key. (If you say 3rd position to a trombone player that means the slide is just short of the bell and it is used to play notes Ab, Eb, C and high Bb depending on your embouchure.)
If your playing chromatic, position has less meaning. If you just hold the slide in one position and play it like a diatonic, then I think your chart makes sense.
Last Edited by STME58 on Jun 06, 2013 2:02 PM
It's not my chart, STME58. That chart belongs to the "Eb is 3rd position" team.
But positions are still a useful concept on chromatic because they come in multiple keys. If sax players carried 8 to 12 saxes in different keys, they'd probably have a similar concept.
Last Edited by timeistight on Jun 06, 2013 2:23 PM
"F would be 12th position on a C chromatic-button out.
C would be first position on C Chromatic-button out."
Why not 5th and 6th position on a button-in C?
I can play an F major pentatonic scale (button out all the way) and an F minor pentatonic scale (button in all the way) in a single blues chorus. Am I playing in 12th when the button is out and 6th when it's in?
Pushing in the slide lever raises the scale to C#:
BLOW C# E# G# C# DRAW D# F# A# B#
(E# and B# are to all intents and purposes the same as F and C.)
In theory it is possible to play in all keys with a chromatic instrument, but in practise, only a few keys are commonly used. Just as most blues on the diatonic is played in the key of the draw chord (cross harp), most blues on the chromatic are played from the draw chord. Probably 90% of the blues numbers recorded using the chromatic are played in the key of D. The draw chord on a C chromatic is Dm6, but this can be used as a substitute for a I chord (as an implied D13#9 chord) in a blues in D. It can also be used as a substitute for a IV chord (as a G9 with no root) in a blues in D and the blow chord can be used to suggest the V (implying an A7#9). (These substitutions work in a blues, but not necessarily in other forms of music.) Those of you who play third position on the diatonic harp will find that many licks can be transferred directly from this style to the chromatic. The D minor pentatonic scale can be played without using the slide and with one slide jab to add the flat fifth note, the classic blues scale in D can be played. Little Walter played many tunes on the chrom in this key and on many of them he alternated between chromatic and diatonic, for example "Blue Lights"1, played on a 64 in C and a diatonic in G. Many players use different key harmonicas to be able to play this style in a variety of keys - Rod Piazza and Paul Oscher are fond of Bb chromatics, as was the late William Clarke.
The key of Eb can be played in much the same way, by just holding in the slide button. The Eb minor pentatonic can be played without slide movement and the blues scale in Eb with just one slide dip. Little Walter plays in Eb behind Muddy Waters on "I'm Ready"2. He also plays in Eb on Muddy's "Don't Go No Further"2 and on "Diamonds at your Feet"2, both tunes uncharacteristically featuring quite a lot of use of the slide button. George Smith also plays in Eb on his classic "Blues In The Dark"3, but my favorite Eb performance comes from Kim Wilson on The Fabulous Thunderbirds' "In Orbit"4. Here Kim swaps between the chromatic and an Ab diatonic.
Little Walter plays in the unusual key of B on the Muddy Waters tune "My Eyes Keep Me In Trouble"2. This key still manages to keep some of the most important notes as draw notes. Many of these licks could be transposed to the key of C by merely playing them with the slide button held in, as George Smith does on the tune "Monkey on a Limb"5. Walter Horton displays a distinctive approach to playing in the key of C on the tune "Blues"6, mostly using the blow chord as his starting point. George Smith also uses this approach on tunes such as "Boogie'n With George"7 - a style which was heavily influenced by The Harmonicats and which in turn was quite influential on West Coast players like Mark Hummel.
The E minor pentatonic scale can also be played without slide movement. Again, it is easy to add the flat fifth of the scale and to transpose it easily to the key of F, but neither of these keys have been used much by blues players. The F major pentatonic scale requires no slide work and can be raised to F# by holding the button in. Stevie Wonder has recorded many solos in these keys
The G major pentatonic scale can be played without slide work and the G blues scale is not too difficult. Those of you who play any second position on the diatonic above hole four shouldn't have too much difficulty in playing in this position on the chromatic. Listen to Toots Thielemans play his version of the Sonny Rollins blues "Tenor Madness"8 to see what can be done with this key. Also, many of these ideas can be transferred to Ab by just holding in the button.
Another key which has proved unpopular with blues players has been the key of A, even though the A minor pentatonic (the same notes as the C major pentatonic) is also built into the instrument.
And this article from Slidemeister-Since chromatic and diatonic harmonica use the same tuning (solo tuning, found on holes 1-4 of the chrom, repeated in three or four octaves, and 4-7 of the diatonic), we can speak of positions on chrom. 1st is C, 2nd is G, 3rd is D, 4th is A, 5th is E, 6th is B, 7th is F#, 8th is C#, 9th is Ab, 10th is Eb, 11th is Bb and 12th is F. I have been informed that major or minor does not matter with regard to position, and so Cm is still 1st position. That's not how I think of it, however. Cm would be Eb, and it would be 10th, unless it was Dorian, and then it would be 11th. I think in terms of positions on chrom, but not numbered positions, just by tonality
Last Edited by tmf714 on Jun 06, 2013 3:14 PM
Much easier and sounds better with slide in and third position-would be very hard to get the timbre and blue third that Kim and Walter get if you tried to play those songs in 10th postion-playing blues chromatic is really about the degrees of the scale.
"Much easier and sounds better with slide in and third position-would be very hard to get the timbre and blue third that Kim and Walter get if you tried to play those songs in 10th postion"
I don't understand that at all. Third position on a C harp is D; why would you have the slide in when you're playing a blues in D?
"don't understand that at all. Third position on a C harp is D; why would you have the slide in when you're playing a blues in D?"
They are not playing in D-they have the slide in playing in Eb using third position-try playing along with those tunes-get any C chrome and play along with the slide IN to any song in Eb-just have to be familiar with third position note placement-if your not,you need to get hip.
It is a C chromatic so E-flat is 10th position. To get the notes for E-flat minor it just so happens that they can mostly be found as draw notes with the button in and you can play them as if you were playing 3rd position with the button out.
You're still playing a 10th position key but doing it as if in 3rd.
"It is a C chromatic so E-flat is 10th position" Only true with the button out-with the button in you are in C#-all sharps on blow and draw-that's where the third position layout comes in-you need to remmeber,we are talking 16 hole chromatic here,so the note layout is changed from a 12-14 hole. The circle of fifths still applies,just button in.
"Only true with the button out-with the button in you are in C#-all sharps on blow and draw"
So if I play in F or C with the button in I'd be in 5th or 6th, by your logic. What happens if I let the button out in the middle -- do I change to 12th or 1st until I push it in again? That doesn't make any sense to me.
"you need to remmeber,we are talking 16 hole chromatic here,so the note layout is changed from a 12-14 hole."
The note layout on a 16-hole chromatic is exactly the same as a 12-hole, just add an octave at the low end.
"What happens if I let the button out in the middle -- do I change to 12th or 1st until I push it in again"
The position remains throughout the song in question-3rd.
If you let the button out-as I believe you can hear Walter and Kim do a few times during the songs mentioned,you MAY still be playing notes in the scale,thats where the degrees of the scale come in.
Your making this WAY more complicated than need be-if you want I can give you a short tutorial on blues chromatic-you need to get hip for sure.
The folks who are insisting that Eb on a C chromatic is third position BUT with the button in are confusing action sequences with key relationships.
The Dorian scale when played on a C harmonica in D and in Eb can be played with the identical action sequence, except that
-- with the D Dorian scale you can leave the button out (though you can press it in for C and F, thus changing the pattern)
-- with the Eb Dorian Scale you can play it with the button held in (though can also release it for C and F, again changing the pattern but in a different way).
So these two keys resemble each other in a limited way that blues players find useful, thus leading to a shorthand expression - "third with the button in."
But positions are defined by key relationships, not by action patterns or specific scales. Any time you pull other concepts into the definition, it stops being logical and simple. And the logically inconsistent shortcuts will stunt your growth and create mental traps if you try to get deeper into playing the chromatic.
And yes, position talk is useful if you play chromatics tuned to more than one key, in the same way that it's useful for diatonic harmonicas.
Let's say you decided to learn a simple major scale in the keys of D and Eb.
Here's how the action sequences would look like for each - presented vertically so that you can see each move side by side:
Tab: Hole number, B for blow, D for Draw, < for slide in.
D Major Scale Eb Major Scale
1D 1D<
2B 2D>
2D< 3B
3B 3B<
3D 3D<
4D 4D<
5B< 5D
5D 5D<
Try playing through each scale and you'll find that they play very differently, even though for *some* of the notes the only difference is whether the slide is in or out.
---------- Winslow
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Jun 06, 2013 6:22 PM
Also, I'd like to point out that a chromatic harmonica is one harmonica, not two. It has a single body and a single mouthpiece.
And on approximately half of the chromatic models sold nowadays, there is no such thing as a "C reedplate" and a "C# reedplate" - the notes belonging to the C and C# major scales alternate between both reedplates, shifting between the upper and lower reedplate hole by hole. ---------- Winslow
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Jun 06, 2013 6:22 PM
I'm starting to get a headache. If the position approach works for some people ,that's great. I don't think of it that way and that's OK,too. Different strokes.
The Pat Missin article was wonderful. It had enough info to keep me busy for months.
Edit--Winslow-that was a great clarification for me.
Last Edited by Tuckster on Jun 06, 2013 6:29 PM
It sure is a chicken/egg question. I think the way you look at it has a lot to do with the style of music you play or even the embrosure that you normally use. Nobody mentioned this. If you're an overblower and pucker most of the time diatonic or chrom then it's definitely makes more sense to think positions like timeistight said, because button in or out, all the time or not the note layout won't be different from a diatonic with overbends. Is that why you think that a C chrom with button in all the time still considered a C harp? Because you can get all those on the same holes on a C diatonic with overbends, is that right?
It would be a whole different story if you tongue block most of the time. Because traditional blues player & tongue blocker would look at it the cheating way, sort of like "chromatic made easy" kind of way. It makes more sense to look at it as two different diatonics to play in 3rd pos. because of those tongue block TECHNIQUES such as tongue pull, tongue slap, etc.. to me it makes all the differences.
If you think single note most of the time then maybe look at it the proper way like you do but if you often use tongue block and always think big chunks of notes for different textures and effect i think it's better to keep thinking in 3rd pos.
Tongue blocking is not exclusive to blues on chromatic. Again, adding an unrelated concept to the idea of positions just muddies the waters, and technique is not a relavent concept to positions.
Most classical chromatic players tongue block, and they play in all keys. Thinking of the harmonica as two harmonicas is a useless concept for their purposes. (That said, most of them play only a C harmonica, so position talk is also useless for them.)
I tongue block 90% of the time, and I use a lot of splits and partial chords, sometimes alternated to create "broken" chord combinations that don't exist as full chords. I also use several different keys of chromatic.
Thinking of the chromatic as two harmonicas is absolutely useless for this kind of playing, because you're always thinking of the possibilities that exist on both sides of the slide, and combining them rapidly. it's easier to think of it as an integrated whole that has two planes: The blow plane (both slide-in and slide-out) and the draw plane (both slide-in and slide-out)
Because I play several keys of chromatic, position thinking is very useful, because I can more easily figure out the chordal possibilities relative to a specific key of music played on a specific key of chromatic because each of the 12 positions has its own unique set of possibilities that are identical for that position on another key of harmonica.
---------- Winslow
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Jun 06, 2013 6:59 PM
I know that there's the only RIGHT way to look at it both for the physical of the instrument and for the theory. That's why I said 3rd pos. thinking is cheating. What I was tryin to say is I think lots of people using that approach and that's why this discussion doesn't seem to end.
This discussion started from a LW clip in another thread and there were clearly two groups of people discussing from two different stand points.
Anyway, now that you're here, hope you don't mind me asking a question, when famous blues chrom player like Hummel, Estrin, William Clarke play tunes that has elements of swing/jazz do you know if they look at it the way you've described or look at it as 3rd pos with some extra passing notes from button?
@tmf OK, you don't want to call it 10th position. So if it's third position, why is it in Eb? Do you play 10th position on a diatonic harmonica? Does anybody, except for Howard Levy? Oh, and this guy . . .
As I said in the quote from Slidemeister (which was not attributed to me, but REEALLY sounds like me), I think positions on the chromatic, but more in terms of tonalities than numbered positions. So Eb has three flats--Ebm is a DIFFERENT KEY. Does that make a difference to you? It means you can't leave the button in . . . BTW, I personally get driven nuts when blues players start playing third position on a chrom and NEVER PLAY THRU CHANGES. It sounds great in the root key, and it never goes anywhere. Can anyone tell that I am not a normal harmonica player?
Last Edited by Gnarly on Jun 06, 2013 8:16 PM
Its relative to C Major. Eb Major is the 3rd Flat key in the cycle of 4ths. Similarly, when referring to 12th position as "1st Flat" its relative to C Major > F Major, being the next Scale a 4th away from C - Containing 1 flat note.
It is implied that these concepts are transposed across various diatonic Harmonicas.
In any sense, Positions are particular only to Diatonic Harmonica playing and IMO, youre better off studying music and learning the foundation music theory as it applies to approaching Harp than worrying about all this positioning mumbo jumbo... ---------- Big Blind Ray's YouTube Channel The Big Blind Ray Trio
Last Edited by BigBlindRay on Jun 06, 2013 8:31 PM
The first-flat, second-flat idea for naming positions has a problem:
F Major has only one flat, while F minor has 4 flats, and F Dorian has three flats. But F, regardless of the scale or number of flats, is still 12th position. So the number of flats is not an adequate way of describing a position.
Howard Levy was the originator AFAIK of the "first-flat" way of describing positions, and when I posed the same question to him, he admitted that it was problematic. ---------- Winslow
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Jun 06, 2013 9:21 PM
I had thought of "position" on the harp as where on the harp you play, ie. which hole is the tonic. I just realised that position could also be a contraction of "transposition", which is what someone has to do if a Bb and C instrument are reading off the same music. Is this just a coincidence, or is there a sense of transposition in the term position for harmonica?
I wish to point out that this passionate discussion started the other day when I asked how Little Walter was playing Don't Go No Further with Muddy Waters....wow, I had no idea!
A follow up and thank you...all the passion has emboldened this intermediate player to pick up his chromatic and learn the real way the song was played and not seek a work around diatonic solution.
You know what? I'm doing it!
I was always afraid of the chromatic. I think I got mine at a garage sale 25 years ago. I never picked it up. It's got a funny taste. Am I going to die?
And that button. Who am I, Stevie Wonder? The notes are in different places. I've got enough problems.
But I'm doing it. Or some version of it.
So again, 1000 thank yous to the wonderful people on this forum.
@timeistight "Get hip to Winslow" No. I think you can still get H.I.P. from Winslow...but volume 3 is out of print. :)
MBH Webbrain - a GUI guide to Adam's Youtube vids FerretCat Webbrain - Jason Ricci's vids (by hair colour!)
Last Edited by bluemoose on Jun 07, 2013 9:56 AM
That's an interesting way to look at it, and the first time I've heard it expressed that way.
The word "position" when use by violinists and guitarists refers to location - it means literally where your left hand is positioned on the neck - first position is the farthest out, plays the lowest notes, and uses the most open strings.
On harmonica, position describes key relationships although, as Tom notes, it's easy to hybridize the concept to refer to location, as in the hole where the home note of the key is located.
When you transpose, you take a set of relationships between notes, for example, a scale, and start that relationship pattern on another starting note or another home note (tonic note, of key center).
Now, if you only play a C harmonica, then you just transpose the note relationships to from the key of C to the key of Eb, or A, or whatever. Then you need to master the techniques to achieve the resulting notes (blow draw, bend, overbend, slide in or out) and to string them together into the action sequences needed to play whatever scale, lick, riff, or melody you want to play.
When you play harmonicas tuned to multiple keys, then the position concept becomes useful. The key of Eb on a C harmonica plays the same as D on a B harmonica or C on an A harmonica. Now, instead of 144 possible relationships (12 keys of music x 12 keys o harmonica) you only have to deal with 12 (or really only three or four for a lot of players).
In that sense you're taking a transposition and re-transposing it but in a different way. Learning to play in Eb on a C harmonica involves some work - you the player have to do the transposition, at least in the sense that you had to learn how to play in that key.
But when you take that Eb learning from the C harmonica and apply it to a B harmonica to get the key of D or to an A harmonica to get the key of C, you're letting the harmonica do the transposition.
This is a little like the world of saxophones. Saxophones mostly come in Bb (tenor and soprano saxes) and Eb (alto and baritone saxes). If you have music in the key of C, you'd write it for tenor sax in the key of D (if you wrote it in C, it would come out in Bb). For alto, you'd write it in A to make it come out in C.
Now let's say someone in the sax section is reading their part and at a certain point in the tune needs to switch from tenor to alto. The part would be written out so that when the player is playing tenor, his part is written in D. When he switches to alto, that section of the tune is now written in A. So, in harmonica terms, he's switching from third position to fourth position.
This is similar to what Charlie Musselwhite does - though without the written parts - when he switches between different keys of harmonicas during a solo to play in second, then first, then third positions.
So, yeah, you could say that "position" as a harmonica term incorporates the concept of transposition. ---------- Winslow
I am glad you posted the saxophone parallel, Winslow. I lost a long post last night that included this idea, but your post is more clear than my lost post.
What you describe is how I use multiple keys of chromatics (and diatonics) to choose a harmonica (or multiple harmonicas) for any given song. I take advantage of the modes easily available in a position to more easily play a song and improvise.
I played Bb clarinet as a kid, and for a long time have been aware that the key of an instrument changes the actual key you are playing in on that instrument. When playing a song from sheet music in C on clarinet, I was actually playing in Bb.
With harmonicas being more affordable than many instruments, switching instruments was a shortcut to playing material and improvising in keys far beyond my reach playing only a C chromatic.
Another analogy other than the sax is that of a guitar capo. I have seen bluegrass hotshot soloists often play in the G "position" but capo up to other perform music in other keys at high speed. They learn the licks that work with bluegrass in G, and the capo to switch keys.
That being said, I am not discounting the value of expanding the number of keys in which I can play on a C chromatic, and I think that learning to sight read would be a great skill to develop.
I think the value of "positions" for chromatic is if it helps you play the music you want to play without playing in difficult keys on a C instrument. It also allows some chord opportunities.
Despite my use of this approach, I would recommend that if someone really wants to play chromatic harmonica they should focus on playing in many keys on a C chromatic.
You can always buy other keys later and "transpose". The more keys you can play on a C instrument, the more fluent you will be on other keys of chromatic.*
*Unless you have perfect pitch and not just relative pitch. With perfect pitch it will probably cause you problems to switch keys of chromatic harmonicas. ----------
I both developed deeper knowledge on a C chromatic and also used it on other keys of chromatic.
The perfect pitch and reading elements can be confusing at times.
I'm not a great sight reader but I have learned to sight transpose for some keys of chromatic. For instance, I use a D chromatic a lot for celtic/fiddle tunes, so I'm used to reading, say music in D and playing it in first position on a D chromatic (or seeing music in G and playing it in 12th, or music in E and playing it in third). But recently a I wrote an arrangement using a Bb chromatic to play in Bb (1st), C# minor (10th), and E (7th position). For that I found that reading a transposed part was helpful because I'm just not used to sight transposing for a Bb harmonica.
I don't have absolute pitch naturally, but I do have a sort of pitch memory that at times mimics absolute pitch. It's never given me a problem in reading on diatonic harmonica, but if I spend a lot of time with a C chromatic and then switch to another key of chromatic, I can get a little discombobulated. ---------- Winslow
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Jun 07, 2013 11:08 AM
speaking on behalf of BLUES HARMONICA and not off topic things like celtic/clasical/ country western. there are 2 exactly 2 keys you can play blues on a chromatic harmonica. whatever the key of the chromatic is lets say for shits and giggles its A third would be the next key which would be B you can play blues on a A chrome in B 3rd. if you have any skill you can pop the button in and play in 8th which is also B (usually high squeeky stuff on the high notes where there are no valves.) now if you keep the button in the harp is now the next key from A which would be Bb you can play blues in C in third let the button out you can still play in C in 10th around the middle somewhere. now if youre really good you can play in 5th position C#m button out and Dm. 5th position is the next notes up from 3rd. you dont need any charts to do this. ive heard people can play blues in first on a chrome i cant, it just aint blues. there is no second position on a chrome. why didnt little walter, carey bell, and george smith play all 11 positions on chromatic? gee i dont know maybe they had better stuff to do like play blues and not classical and world music.
George Smith did play first position blues on chromatic. So does Mark Hummel and maybe others. Remember, first is a strongly chordal position, and all the blue notes are slide-in draw notes (Hello Stevie Wonder). maybe it just ain't blues when you do it, but they seem to have found the blues in first on chromatic.
Dennis Gruenling sometimes plays in 12th on chromatic (as in F on a C chromatic).
Fred, you say B on an A chromatic is third (true) but then you also say that B is 8th, and played with the button pushed in. Maybe you meant Bb. As far as any key being squeaky, I don't why it would because you can play any position anywhere in the range of the harmonica. Blues is everywhere, you just have to be resourceful to find it.
Little Walter, from what I've listened to, played mostly third and occasionally 10th on standard chromatic. He also sometimes played the Koch slide harp (tuned like a diatonic) in 9th (Ab on a C harp).
I'm less complete in my listening to Carey Bell, but my overall listening experience is that most blues chromatic players stick mainly to third, with occasional use of 10th, and sometimes first. Very few have stepped out in public at least in all 12 positions on chromatic. And yes, there are 12, not 11.
On an A chromatic, C# is fifth. But D (minor, major, or anything else) is 12th. Yes, you can play it like fifth, but that's only one of many ways to play it, and as soon as you start moving the button in and out, the two play very differently. ---------- Winslow
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Jun 07, 2013 3:30 PM
10th I would expect from Dennis. I didn't know about 6th but it makes sense - it's a really cool position. I did a whole article on 6th complete with recordings awhile back for HarmonicaSessions.com:
Paul deLay is another player who played a bit in first on chromatic (Oat Bran (I think - not where I can check), If She Is) and also did great things in second, as in his song Why Can't You Love Me? ---------- Winslow
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Jun 07, 2013 4:10 PM
WinslowYerxa said(Fred, you say B on an A chromatic is third (true) but then you also say that B is 8th, and played with the button pushed in. Maybe you meant Bb)
i meant an A chrome button in is now a Bb harp and 8th position is B. i cant play in 8th or 10th unless im playing on a chrome. i play in third on a C that would be D button out button in i can still play in D. button in C chrome in 3rd is Eb i let the button out i can still play in Eb. thats all i know. sometimes i can play in E minor in fifth on non blues songs like "i saw her standing there" yes i know people play blues in first postion and others i dont ive also found anything above 5th is very limiting as far as notes. but thats me. what peices do you suggest for first position chrome? i have a few boring weeks to kill. ok i checked the only song smith did in first was "peg o my heart" id hardly called that blues. from what i understand stevie wonder plays in 6th with the button in then lets it out and plays in first. but its mainly 6th that gives the bluesy jazz sound. that one bent draw not you can do on a diatonic in first isnt possible on chrome. well maybe if you half valve.
WinslowYerxa said Little Walter, from what I've listened to, played mostly third and occasionally 10th on standard chromatic. He also sometimes played the Koch slide harp (tuned like a diatonic) in 9th (Ab on a C harp). i heard he simply played the C koch button in 2nd position in Ab but i do 2nd and 9th on mine so i will listen again. 2nd position is possible on a koch but not on a real chromatic.
2nd position is real doable on a chrom, I do it all the time. My chrom starts on G3, there's the root, and the draw chord is Dm6, which is G7/9 with no root. Blues on this chrom is super easy, perhaps a YouTube is in order.
Fred Gomez says that somehow B is 8th position on a A chromatic if you press the slide in.
But when you press the slide in on an A chromatic, B is not an available note. it doesn't exist with the button pressed in. The notes are Bb C D Eb F G and A.
If you're dividing the harmonica into two artificial halves (A and Bb) and then naming positions according to each half, you can't very well name a position that doesn't exist in that half. It's a contradiction in terms.
so 3rd hole blow, draw 5,67 i assume this is a C chrome thats 1 and 5 where is 4? how in the hell do you bend 2nd position notes on a chrome with valves?
all i know is with an A chrome i can play in B button out and in B button in. and i can play C button in and C button out thats all i know thats all i care to do. make a chromatic position chart thats easy to understand because this one is all i can find.
well i blew out a perfectly good chromatic as a kid trying to play it in second position im never doing that again. im staying with third and whatever the position is with the button in or out that works with third and sometimes 5th button out only.
Norton Buffalo pretty much always played chromatic in second position. Norton actually had a CBH 2016 (his preferred chromatic model) specially made for him in the key of A so that he could use it to play in the key of E. And as Winslow mentioned Paul deLay also played chromatic in second position. "Why can't you love me" is a great example, and if I remember correctly I think he also plays "Nice and Strong" in second position on the chromatic. EDIT: I just went and checked and it would seem that Paul is actually playing "Nice and Strong" in 6th position (key of B on a C chromatic). This is one of the reasons that Paul deLay is one my favorite blues chromatic player, he doesn't just limit himself to playing in 3rd position so he's able to get a unique sound.
Last Edited by REM on Jun 07, 2013 8:35 PM
well i'll be damned it is possible but only sounds good on 280 chrome. i played a bit with the paul delay tune liked the button work so much i immediately jumped on my own on a backing track in G quite happy thanks something new i can do :D
