jnorem
199 posts
May 15, 2014
8:29 PM
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If you've played one, what's your impression? Suzuki says it's the "best harp you've ever played."
I'm wondering what you all think of it; is it that good, does it play well, does it sound good, and so on. Is it a good harp, maybe even a great one?
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Call me J
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SuperBee
1986 posts
May 15, 2014
8:50 PM
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I've only got one I consider playable. Oh, maybe 2, but I don't play the F because I have a marine band I prefer, and a MS blues harp I'd use as a backup.
The Ab I have I consider unplayable. I'd have to replace a reed. Vendor assures me that's the way it came from the factory.
The HiG may be ok. Maybe I just can't play a harp pitched that high.
But anyway, from my experience with these harps, they might be ok. My Db is my only harp in that key. I haven't adjusted it at all, so it may be that some tweaking would sort it out. But I just can't seem to get the feel for the Suzuki reeds. These are kinda stiff I think. I feel I could get used to it, but I don't really like it.
I don't like that square profile either.
This sounds really negative I know. I don't think it's a bad harp, I just prefer what I'm used to. I'm actually trying to overcome these negative thoughts, by playing it a lot, trying to understand it. It's loud and bright. I think it may be tuned quite well, which is significant. And it looks good, which isn't.
A long way from 'the best harp' I've ever played though. IMHO.
Hmm...I think I have a B also. I wonder wher that is? Must get it out and try it...
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STME58
814 posts
May 15, 2014
9:30 PM
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"best harp you've ever played." is what's known in the advertising world as puffery. I have a Promaster in Bb a Hammond in F and a FIrebreath in C. These are very similar harps and are among my favorites. I did have to replace the comb ob the promaster because the original had saw marks in it that made it leaky. I got it a couple of years ago and I have heard the production problem that caused it has been corrected. The Hammond hs a black anodized comb that is fine and the Firebreath has a rosewood comb that works well.
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SuperBee
1988 posts
May 15, 2014
10:01 PM
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Yes, I must say that mine are all old product. I bought them as NOS. And at bargain prices. I mean dead set rock bottom bargain. 5 for less than the RRP of a single. I have no complaint at all about that deal.
They do have a nice heft. I think they would be very good throwing harps. Sometimes I have felt like throwing them... But of course, that's kind of a joke...
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STME58
815 posts
May 15, 2014
10:24 PM
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@SuperBee, you might want to take the reed plates off and look at the combs. If they have deep saw marks in them, replacing the combs will make the harps much more playable. You could sand the saw marks out but you will sand the anodize off and leave bare aluminum. The biggest problem with this is that brass and aluminum create about 1.6v when your tongue touches both. You experience the voltage as a salty taste.
My Bb Promaster with comb from Blue Moon is probably my favorite harp but I have a tough time chosing between it and my low F Seydel Nobel.
Last Edited by STME58 on May 15, 2014 10:27 PM
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SuperBee
1990 posts
May 15, 2014
11:03 PM
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Yes I'll do that. I'm no fan of the aluminium comb anyway. Mine are black anodised...they're 350VG harps...but I can still taste them.
Are blue moon combs available non metal?
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STME58
816 posts
May 15, 2014
11:24 PM
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I have two combs from Blue Moon. The aluminum one on mt Promaster is anodized blue and has no taste whatsoever. Annodizing produces an aluminum oxide coating that is an electrical insulator so if it is done right, there will be no galvanic cell to create the taste.
THe other blue moon comb I have is made of Kirinite and is on a special 20. It made quite an improvement to that harp and it looks cool. It is a bit hard to assemble though as the original comb was recessed and the machined comb is flat so the cover plates must be carefully aligned.
Last Edited by STME58 on May 15, 2014 11:24 PM
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sonny3
176 posts
May 16, 2014
2:50 AM
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Yeah I got one a while ago in Db didn't play to good so I fit rid of it.For the price of them I don't think you should have to replace Combs.I guess I just like good playing harps ootb.I'll stick with marine bands.
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A440
154 posts
May 16, 2014
5:53 AM
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I mostly play Hohner (SP20, MBD, Crossover), and over the past year or so I discovered the Seydel Session Steel which I really love - I am playing them more and more. Last year I decided to try a Suzuki - either a Promaster or Hammond. I found a Hammond in A on sale for $47 on the web (one of those music shops linked to Amazon). So at that price, I decided to buy one. While the Hammond is slightly different from the Promaster, I guess they are very similar.
The Hammond build quality and finish is excellent. It's a heavy harp and feels good to both hand and mouth. It feels smaller than the Hohners, and certainly is smaller than the Seydels. For me, that has been a negative aspect: it is harder to hold and there is not much space on the harp to get a deep mouth position while keeping my finger in the rounded "trough" of the top cover. So I need to move my finger forward to hold it by the edge of the cover instead of in the trough. At first this was awkward, but now I am used to it.
The holes seem a bit smaller and closer, so sometimes I accidently hit a bit of the neighboring hole. This might be me just getting lazy, after getting accustomed to the bigger holes on the Seydel.
It is very air tight. The sound is really nice. It has a clean, sultry, dark tone, which I think is specific to the enameled covers of the Hammond. Very smooth sounding with good dynamic range. Quite different from a raspy/bluesy Hohner. I believe it is tuned to Equal Temperament, but chords sound nice - no "beating". It seems very much in tune, especially compared to my SP20s which tend to go slightly out of tune over time. The Hammond is not a loud harp, certainly compared to SP20 or Crossover - for that reason I find it works better cupped and amped, as opposed to playing acoustically.
The reeds are a pleasure to play. They bend easily, but in a controlled fashion. I can really finesse the reeds and they respond well to subtle mouth and tongue movements. Especially for an A harp, it is very quick and responsive. Mine worked great out of the box and did not require any gapping. The hole 2 draw was weak at first, but it loosened up after a few weeks and got louder - now matching the volume of the neighboring holes.
The Hammond does tend to grab facial hair. The groove which runs along the reedplate to align the front of the cover extends beyond the end of the cover. Hairs tend to get stuck in the groove just under the edge of the cover. I will try to sand or fill the groove, if I ever get around to it.
My Hammond has no funny taste, or any taste at all. I can not sense any of the voltage effects that people talk about. It is my first metal combed harp, and I like the way it vibrates and sounds. It's different, in a nice way.
Overall, I am happy with the Hammond. It took me a little time to warm up to it, but now I like it and enjoy playing it. It is not in my gig bag, but I like playing it at home and with the band during practice sessions.
Yes, I recommend trying one... and by extension the Promaster. I think I will try the Promaster next, and eventually a Firebreath.
Last Edited by A440 on May 16, 2014 6:32 AM
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STME58
818 posts
May 16, 2014
8:20 AM
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I agree you should not have to replace the comb on a harp of this quality. The one I had to replace was purchased about 3 years ago. I would like to hear what the quality is like currently. The Hammond I bought at bout the same time as the Promaster has been an excellent harp, I have never even had to open it up.
I have replaced reed plates on both the Promaster and the Firebreath. The Firebreath and Promaster plates are interchangeable but the FIrebreath are more expensive. I had to do some gapping on the Promaster plates I got but the Firebreath plates were ok right out of the package.
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jnorem
201 posts
May 16, 2014
12:09 PM
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I'm betting that the Promaster hasn't made much of an influx to the blues harp playing contingent. Why? it's a quality, professional instrument any way you look at it, its voice is robust with a nice bit of twang, and it's easy to play. Also, it really speaks when played through a microphone and a good amplifier. The only thing I don't like so much is the playing area with the protruding reed plates, and I've decided that I should go ahead and get used to that, considering that most harps are made that way.
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Call me J
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Gnarly
1003 posts
May 16, 2014
1:10 PM
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That's a relief J, I don't have to sand down the reed plates!
The Hammond is a Promaster, just the comb and cover plates have that heavy laquer.
They are ET but if you are good you can play them in tune LOL
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shadoe42
299 posts
May 16, 2014
1:49 PM
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I have a promaster but I prefer the Harpmaster. I have a full set of HM..not sure what it is about the PM i don't care for. Maybe it just I was already sold on the harpmaster before I picked up a PM to try em out.
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Dr. Rev. Mr. Cheeks Miller
My Electronic Music World
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STME58
823 posts
May 16, 2014
2:22 PM
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Between the two Suzukis, if I a am to play classical I would prefer a Promaster, at a Blues Jam I would prefer a Harpmaster. I can't say exactly why. I suspect that at least part of this is influenced by the look and feel of the harps. The Harpmaster is light and looks like a blues harp. The Promaster is hefty and looks serious.
Last Edited by STME58 on May 16, 2014 2:22 PM
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Gnarly
1006 posts
May 16, 2014
2:22 PM
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Well, they are much more expensive!
I like the Olive, but they don't seem to be moving--I would buy more if I had more money, they are like the Manji but darker, sort of like the Promaster and the Hammond.
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jnorem
202 posts
May 16, 2014
2:39 PM
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I've thought about the Harpmaster, but the thing is that I'm tired of plastic instruments.
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Call me J
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jbone
1617 posts
May 17, 2014
5:50 AM
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I had a Promaster years ago. It was a gift and was in B. While it played nicely I very rarely used it, the key was just wrong. I gave it away.
A few years ago My wife told me to find a hundred dollar harp and I could buy it, and I settled on a Pure in G. All rosewood except the reed plates of course. Very warm and sweet harp but not a real working man's axe. I do play it on particular songs.
Last year I wanted an Eb and Amazon had a Hammond in Eb for a bargain, so I got it. It's a solid tight good sounding harp. Mostly I play in 3rd position on it and I have found it to be a good instrument.
We also got me an overdrive, which just does not feel right. I have not spent much time with it but I doubt I will ever use it much. Bending for me takes place in the mouth and I am not "getting" the subtleties of using fingers to influence notes.
Tried a Harpmaster but did not like it much. Tried a Folkmaster and it was too flimsy feeling.
I'm a confirmed Manji guy for the most part although I do have other harps in my case. I'm also a "good deal" guy! If I see a MB at a flea market and it looks good I'll give up a few bucks for it. I have a Sp20 or two that I've used for a long time and I even bought a Big River last year in Dd because I needed one and it was a deal.
This got a bit off of Promaster, sorry. That's my experience with mostly Suzukis though.
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http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
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Jim Rumbaugh
990 posts
May 17, 2014
12:41 PM
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I carry to "C" harps in my belt of harps. One of the two is a Promater and my only Promaster. I like use it for it for all my 1st position tunes because it sounds in tune compared to my Special 20. The rest of my harps are Special 20, Blues Masters, or Delta Frost. I use them for all my 2nd position playing.
I have had a few Promasters come my way. I removed the valves from one or two of them, and I've taken the plates from a few and put the plates on a Bluesmater or Delta frost. There was even one time I used the comb of a Bluesmaster, but kept the plates and cover of the Promaster. But after a short time, I replaced the Promaster cover with the Bluesmaster cover. That's what I like....... at this time....
I have no desire to purchase a Promaster at this time, but I would consider a Manji. I misplaced the only one I had, and I miss it.
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
Last Edited by Jim Rumbaugh on May 17, 2014 12:42 PM
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jnorem
204 posts
May 17, 2014
3:26 PM
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I like the components of the Promaster, the cover plates, the reed plates, the comb, even the reed plate and cover screws, they all seem to be very high quality.
It's the way they fit together that lets it down in the end. Today I held one of my Promasters uo to the window, and I saw daylight between the covers and the comb. That means leaky to me, wasted air.
I hold a SP20 up to the window, and what do I see? Nothing, because the reed plates are behind the playing surface, or some call it the mouth piece. The SP20 is a tight harp. Why that comb design is not used more is beyond me, as it makes for a more airtight harmonica.
So the SP20 comb isn't just for comfort, it's more airtight, and it feels it.
I do like the way a Promaster sounds, though. And I like the weight of it; the whole thing just looks and feels more like a real instrument.
As sick of plastic as I am, I think the SP20 is a slightly better harp than the Promaster. Too bad.
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Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on May 17, 2014 9:21 PM
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arzajac
1367 posts
May 17, 2014
4:21 PM
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I'm not a fan of Promaster aluminium combs because they are not airtight and the anodization comes off.
I like the reeds, though. They have a sort of sweet-and-sour feel to their timbre. That goes for all Suzuki reeds.
I don't think there is any comparison to the Manji/Olive, though. Manji reeds are long slot reeds and have a much "creamier" feel to the player than short-slot reeds as found in Blues/Harp/ProMasters.
And I don't like full-length covers, though the Golden Melody is the exception. That being said, the Promaster looks great and feels great in the hands.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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jnorem
208 posts
May 17, 2014
9:24 PM
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I like full-length covers, not just for the way it looks but also because it feels smoother to my hands, less rickety in a way.
And it looks great.
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Call me J
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Aussiesucker
1393 posts
May 17, 2014
11:44 PM
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I like mine an A & Bb and they both play well. I have however tweaked them both. Nice feel and the chrome covers are good on the lips. I like Suzuki Harps & get a really good run out of Bluesmasters & Harpmasters. I don't think the Promaster plays better ie just looks and feels better because of the covers and alloy comb.
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HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
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STME58
826 posts
May 21, 2014
9:28 PM
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I just lost the 5 draw on my Bb Promaster. I looked through my old reed plates hoping I had a good draw plate but it has been the draw side failing every time. Different holes but always the draw.
I picked up set of Firebreath reed plates from Rockin Ron today and installed them on my Promaster. One of the differences I noted out of the package is that Promaster Reed plates are plated (chrome or nickel I expect) and Firebreath plates are plain brass. The character of the harp has changed a bit and it will take a bit of getting used to. I can get overblows on holes 1-6 as the reeds were set up but, they are not all that controllable (that may not be the harps fault)
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florida-trader
484 posts
May 22, 2014
5:46 AM
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Several years ago when I first discovered the online harmonica community I started buying lots of different harps to try out. I think I got at least one of pretty much every harp that was highly rated by consensus. Up until that time I had played Golden Melodys exclusively for about 35 years. When I tried a ProMaster it quickly became one of my favorite harps – to the point that I bought an entire set. I like the comfort of the full length covers and the heft of the aluminum comb. And I felt that the responsiveness was better than many of the other harps I tried. I also tried some HarpMasters and agree with everyone who praised them. They are great harps if you like the plastic recessed comb design (i.e. Special 20 or Lee Oskar).
That was several years ago before I got into the harmonica business and started tinkering with the insides of harps. My thinking about the ProMaster has “evolved” since that time.
First, STME58 is correct in that on many of the combs the saw marks are very visible and it might be a good idea to replace those combs. I’m not suggesting that all ProMaster combs are flawed and in fact I still have stock combs on a lot of my ProMasters but some of the stock combs are not great.
In the past several years I have gotten into vintage pre-war Marine Bands and that has led me to learning about different temperaments. There are lots of guys on this forum who are far more knowledgeable than I on the subject but simply put you have black, white and various shades of gray. On one end of the spectrum you have Equal Temperament (ET) and on the other you have Compromised Tuning with lots of variations in between. ET harps like the Golden Melody are tuned for playing individual notes (as the name Golden MELODY would imply). Marine Bands have progressed through a series of different temperaments starting with 7-Limit Just Intonation which is designed for playing chords. It is not a great temperament for playing individual notes. We’re going back to the early 1900’s up until the 1930’s. As Blues music became more prevalent Hohner accommodated musicians by adjusting the temperament to suit that style of play which combines both chords and individual notes. The catch-all phrase is “Compromised Tuning” and there are several variations.
So what does that have to do with the ProMaster? ProMasters are tuned very closely to ET with only 5 of the reeds (2, 5 & 8 Blow; 3 & 7 Draw) tuned 5 cents flat to move it slightly in the direction of Compromised Tuning. But it is still much closer to ET than Compromised. This is likely the reason why Jim Rumbaugh likes playing 1st position tunes with his ProMaster.
If you do any reading on the subject of Tuning you will find mention of the audible difference between chords played on a Golden Melody vs. a Marine Band. Five years ago, I could not tell the difference. However today, after having tinkered with and tuned hundreds of harps, and after prolonged exposure to the various Marine Band tunings, the difference is very obvious to me.
I have been a Suzuki Dealer for about year and have been building Manji’s and ProMasters from components using my combs. And by the way, the Olive is essentially a ProMaster with Manji reed plates (and green covers) which accounts for the difference in sound. Manji reeds are a little longer than ProMaster reeds.
A couple of months ago I tuned a Manji to “Modern Marine Band Tuning” and it was magical! It transformed a harp that I already liked into one that I have a hard time putting down. The difference is amazing. Of course, I also did some reed work which has contributed to the improvement. I have since tried this with some ProMasters and I love it. It has taken what is a very solid instrument and transformed it into something I believe is better suited for playing the blues. If you are Suzuki fan I would recommend giving this a try. Suzukis are very well made harmonicas and with a little modification I think you might find you will like them even more.
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Tom Halchak
www.Bl
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arzajac
1369 posts
May 22, 2014
6:50 AM
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"I also did some reed work which has contributed to the improvement. "
Now we're talking! Airtightness is great! Being in tune (regardless of the temperament) is a dramatic improvement. And good reed work can really make a harp snap.
But stack all three things together and you really start to see the full potential of a harmonica.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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Slimharp
334 posts
May 22, 2014
9:17 AM
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I think the Promaster is a good harp. I just played a few the other night. I was impressed. I think they are just a little bit less responsive than a Sp. 20. The Promaster is not the best harp I have ever played.
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