mac1012
51 posts
May 26, 2014
3:37 AM
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been thinking of delving into harmonica repairs tuning etc
been looking on internet at tools kits how to etc
are the kits any good/worth the money as opossed to buying stuff you need ? i notice lee oskar does one and honer at 60 pounds
can any one advise on things i must have ?
and tuning i noticed on another thread about tuning caps how the heck do they work ??
i seen that you can buy software for standard diatonic tuning
i have lot of patience and i used to repair watches years ago as a hobby with my uncle so hopefully i can transfer some of the skills (meaning fiddling with delicate small stuff )
i am gonna look on ebay for some old honers i can bash about lol
mark
Last Edited by mac1012 on May 26, 2014 3:37 AM
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SuperBee
2022 posts
May 26, 2014
4:06 AM
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Seydel kit is ok too. Richard Sleigh has put a kit together which you can buy from Rockin' Ron. Has some nice specialised tools. Andrew zajac has a little kit available too, which is really good value.
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rockmonkeyguitars
90 posts
May 26, 2014
4:15 AM
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tool kits by the major companies are overpriced and not nearly as practical as they might seem. I would suggest piecing a kit together yourself and get a nice little zip pouch to keep it in or buy a kit from one of the smaller companies like suggested above
Last Edited by rockmonkeyguitars on May 26, 2014 4:17 AM
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florida-trader
488 posts
May 26, 2014
4:41 AM
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Rock is correct. You can cobble together a tool kit fairly easily and for not a lot of money. Your watch repair skills should translate nicely to harmonica repair. The tuning cap that Andrew offers is used when you are tuning a reed plate. It saves you the hassle of having to mount the reed plate on a comb every time you want to test a reed to see if it is tune. He has it set up so you can play octaves - 1 & 4, 2 & 5, etc. to further check the tuning. It is a clever tool. I don't have time at the moment but I will put together a list if items I use and where I got them. Someone else might beat me to it. It's not rocket science.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
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arzajac
1381 posts
May 26, 2014
5:35 AM
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"can any one advise on things i must have ?"
You can get a lot done with just a good toothpick and a screwdriver. Better tools can help you get the job done faster or help you from overshooting the mark and working against yourself.
Some tools cannot be improvised but for the most part, the "low-hanging fruit", things like gapping, tuning and making the harmonica airtight can be done with common things you have around the house or easily found at the hardware store (very fine sandpaper, battery-powered engraver, very flat surface like your bathroom mirror, etc...)
I offer a toolkit for basic and advanced work:
http://harp.andrewzajac.ca/Tools
There's some information on that page you can download, too.
You were asking about the French Tuner. Here is a video of it:
The camera is shaky - before you watch it, maybe stop at the pharmacy for some motion sickness medication on your way to the hardware store....
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on May 26, 2014 5:36 AM
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arzajac
1382 posts
May 26, 2014
5:35 AM
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I forgot to mention that I provide Email support with the purchase of these tools. You get to ask me anything related to the use of the tools which is a pretty broad range of topics.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on May 26, 2014 8:44 AM
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GMaj7
424 posts
May 26, 2014
5:54 AM
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Good question and great thread.
If a player has HALF the skills needed (Which are not much..btw) to do basic or even intermediate adjustments, he/she shouldn't need to buy the tool kit offered by the companies.. That's the irony...
Precision screwdrivers and spark plug shim just don't cost that much.
However, when companies, retailers, and techs sell them, we add on the cost of 100 emails and phone calls on how to use a Phillip head screwdriver.
However, keep in mind that the week link in doing repairs are parts. Since many players complain about a $50 harp, buying replacement parts such as reeds, screws, etc.. is out of the question.
Making an adjustment in gap and minor corrections to temperament are not too tough will improve playing.
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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GMaj7
425 posts
May 26, 2014
5:57 AM
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I do sell this for tuning and find that this is a good tool for tuning.
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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Thievin' Heathen
318 posts
May 26, 2014
8:27 AM
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In the flat surface department.., I bought a piece of 12x12 granite tile for about $5. I have since come across an end cut (~32" square) of 2cm granite countertop. That stuff is pretty flat.
I bought the Seydel kit, for about $300, and while I have no regrets about that purchase, I have found the individual components can be acquired for less $$. It is hard to beat having someone who knows what is needed put a toolkit together so a tool is there when you need it. If you have to stop, go to the hardware store, and then fabricate, that first harmonica is going to take weeks. I don't think you could go wrong buying one of Andrew's tool sets.
To be fair & balanced, I don't think you could go wrong buying Richard Sleigh's tools either.
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sonny3
179 posts
May 26, 2014
4:13 PM
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Would the Lee Oskar kit be worth 34 bucks that Amazon sells it for?
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Thievin' Heathen
319 posts
May 26, 2014
4:54 PM
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I never bought that one and I have a lot of LO harps. Other than the Lee Oskar reed wrench, I don't think there is anything special about it. I made a reed wrench by cutting and filing a slot in a .027" feeler gauge. I bought a high quality, #1 Philips screw driver at an electronics supply. I also got some nylon flat blade screw drivers that work real well for tweaking & massaging the reeds back into shape. I am not sure about the chisels(?). The reed support is another feeler gauge. I prefer a little square pc. of shim stock.
Last Edited by Thievin' Heathen on May 26, 2014 4:55 PM
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SuperBee
2028 posts
May 26, 2014
5:09 PM
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The lee Oskar kit is very basic. The file is aggressive.
I bought a seydel kit, but I don't think I paid anything like $300. No doubt it also is overpriced though. You can get the rivet pliers from Gmaj7. The reaming tools are good to have. The bolts and nuts are handy. The pin vise and thread tap is good, the little gadget for holding the tiny nuts while you fit them on the bolts is handy.
The drill bit for removing burrs would be common in many households, the screwdrivers are nice but also common.
I haven't used the pincers. I guess they're for pulling nails.
Andrew's set is made by him and will help you do reedwork and embossing. It actually is not overpriced. Maybe it's underpriced. I believe he has a better reed wrench now which will hold the reeds for and aft as well as side to side. Anyway it's a good value example of resourcefulness.
The tools Richard Sleigh provides are aimed at the same kind of work. very nice quality precision tool kit. Also includes a screwdriver which is redundant for me but a nice tool. The draw scraper is cool. It's not a cheap set. Nice files. With this kit you can do all the work Richard demos in his video 'hot rod your harmonica'. I actually prefer Andrew's brass shaping tool for most work over Richard's surgical steel tool, but they each have their place.
But neither Andrew nor Richard include tools needed to help you replace a reed by removing a rivet and bolting in a new reed.
There is good instruction available. Mark Prados, Andrew zajac, joe spiers, Dave Payne, and others have made free videos. Kinya pollard has made some good videos also, but I'm not sure about freebies. I think he does have some. Also Richard sleigh has provided som free material.
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Aussiesucker
1394 posts
May 26, 2014
5:14 PM
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I started with a LeeOskar kit & honed my knowledge & failures on some old cheap disposable harps. I have added to my tool kit heaps of items the latest being a Kinchrome Engraving tool which is great for working on reeds and only cost $20 from the hardware store. I use free online tuners (AP Tuner) & am now very confident that I can fix and retune my harps in minutes. I place a large alloy baking tray on my work area as it has turned up edges and prevents tiny screws from falling on the carpet. My next purchase is going to be a headband magnifier.
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HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
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slackwater
57 posts
May 26, 2014
5:35 PM
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The only thing that I couldn't get hold of that's in a tool kit was a reed spanner(wrench in US language) so I thought about a kit a couple of times, but it was just way way too much to pay for a spanner that size...but I couldn't bloody find one. So I used little flat nosed pliers until I got a really thin cutting disk and made a couple out of thikness/gap gauge blades. One for German reeds, one for Jap reeds. Easy.
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GMaj7
426 posts
May 26, 2014
6:26 PM
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Andrew has reed wrenches that work fine and are priced well.
If he isn't able to hook you up, I make them out of feeler gauge
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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Kaining
48 posts
May 27, 2014
1:15 AM
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There is one thing that haven't been talked about here, and it's quite normal since it's an uncommon tool but...any one know what's best to cut a reed plate without twisting it or badly damage it ?
I have been looking at tools since a few month, got the seydel sound check pack 3, their file (can't find a good one where i live) and their shim/feeler. I am still missing tools to remove and replace reeds but those seems commun, even if they seems overpriced. Last thing i may need is a something to cut the reed platesbut i just don't know what to use and since there are stainless steel and brass reed plates, i am not even sure if i need 2 different tools.
If you wonder why i need those tools, i'dl like to try a few idea with 12 holes reed plates (and some other silly stuff). Can't find a reed plate for 12 holes that satisfy my needs on the market.
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SuperBee
2031 posts
May 27, 2014
5:20 AM
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First thing comes to mind is a saw, Kaining.
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harpwrench
866 posts
May 27, 2014
7:13 AM
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Most of my tools are home made or repurposed from around the garage. One thing every harp tech needs is a little box. I use the one my wallet came in. It elevates your work surface from the bench and provides some ergonomics. Plus you can store most of your tools in it. I use some magnification to do most anything. Strong reading glasses over my regular glasses covers most general work, and I use a loupe quite a bit.
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www.spiersharmonicas.com
High performance harmonicas.
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HawkeyeKane
2525 posts
May 27, 2014
8:20 AM
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My wife bought the LO kit for me a long time ago, and I still use it to this day, even though I only have two Lee Oskar harps. The only thing missing from the kit that I had to add later on was a precision sized straightedge screwdriver for my SP20's and Huangs. I agree with Dave...the kit is very basic, but if you're like me, and all you need it for is to assemble & disassemble harps and make the occaisional lateral reed adjustment, then it works fine.
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Hawkeye Kane - Hipbone Sam
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1847
1825 posts
May 27, 2014
11:05 AM
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i also have a box, a wallet came in
it holds a surprising amount of harp gear.
i never thought to use it as a work station.
joe i thought you also used a microscope?
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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1847
1826 posts
May 27, 2014
11:13 AM
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someone gave me a broken wiha screwdriver
i filed it down and polished it
comes in handy
also have a stainless steel fret wire from parker guitars did the same thing sanded it down
another favorite tool
the Einstein tuning table is a great device
20 bucks
check it out online
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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jnorem
235 posts
May 27, 2014
2:04 PM
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I have one of those cases a set of six Promasters come in. In it I have a multi-bit screwdriver I got at Home Depot for around $4.00, a tuning fork for embossing, again around $4.00, a pick that came with a nutcracker set that cost $3.00 from the supermarket, perfect for gapping, a little tin cup with a screw-on top that I keep screws in while I'm working on a reed plate, a couple of old CX12 reed plates that I get valves from, a little tube of Loctite adhesive for sticking the valves on, a few toothpicks and various little bags of screws and bolts from old harps. Notwithstanding the plates, screws and the case, I'd say this whole thing cost me about $20.00 at the most.
Oh, and also in the case I keep a pair of close-up reading glasses, because, well, I need them.
It's served me well for quite some time. The only thing I don't have are a little file for tuning and reed wrench, because I have no idea where to get either of those.
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Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on May 27, 2014 2:22 PM
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Kaining
49 posts
May 27, 2014
2:41 PM
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@ Superbee: yeah, a saw might be what i need but there are a lots of them... isn't it ?
@Jnorem: Seydel sell one for 10$, i just got it last week and that's the best i got so far. After half a dozen file that got from various local store, i am satisfied of it.
They were so bad i had to used razor blade to tune my reeds.
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DannyRanch
14 posts
Sep 22, 2014
8:58 AM
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What about single reed replacement? I might get the kit arzajac is offering, but reed replacement is really a thing I'm really interested on.
Currently only Hohner is offering that in their complete kit, but hella expensive, also is available to be ordered separate (without the whole kit) but is still expensive (is $152.67 alone half of the cost of the kit)
What can be used instead for it?
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GMaj7
531 posts
Sep 22, 2014
9:27 AM
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The Achilles Heal for everyone is the availability or lack of availability of replacement reeds....
If you have a source for them, great..
Seydel sells them and for some that's a good option but I actually replace reeds for about the same price as it costs to buy them and much quicker.
This topic seems to come up a lot.
It seems like those who want to get into this are seeking (Understandably) to save money but it seems like after all the investment a lot of folks just give up and still hire out for the task of reed replacement.
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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MP
3260 posts
Sep 23, 2014
1:49 PM
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To fix harmonicas, if you do not have tools to replace reeds you are like a plumber w/out a pipe wrench.
I believe if you have the Seydel kit and the Hohner kit plus odds and ends from Gmaj7th and Arzajac you will be well on your way. You need a light box, screws, nuts, taps, great files, shims, Pozi-drive, slotted, and reed screwdrivers. pin vises, nut drivers, universal reed wrenches etc. If you use rivets you have a whole new ball of wax w/ anvils, 2 0z hammers, Rommel tools etc.
Be it Gmaj7th, arzajac, harpwrench, Gnarly, myself, most anyone will offer free advice to accomplish the task.
PS. most of us don't have very good pitch. Buuuuut, if your reed on...let's say a C harp 4 draw sounds out of tune it is most likely broken. If your tuner reeds C# or C instead of D on that reed it needs replaced. No way will you be able to tune it back to D and have it hold for any length of time. No way.
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Affordable Reed Replacement
Marks Harmonica Tune-up
Click user name MP for contact info
Last Edited by MP on Sep 23, 2014 1:55 PM
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Gnarly
1116 posts
Sep 23, 2014
4:36 PM
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My ears are my greatest strength--today at Suzuki I replaced a reed in one of Billy Branch's Manji's (draw 4, go figure) and tuned it to pitch without a tuner--hell yes I'm proud--
PS The HRT-10 Suzuki repair kit is really good but so expensive here in the US that we don't even keep it in stock--it makes replacing welded reeds a snap (oops, bad choice of words)
Last Edited by Gnarly on Sep 23, 2014 4:38 PM
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STME58
1098 posts
Sep 23, 2014
9:29 PM
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Gnarly, I know you use screws for reed replacement in Suzukis but it would be cool if Suzuki provided you with a little spot welder and a fixturing jig. Here's one designed for the orthodontist that would probably work for reeds
Your repairs work great but it just bothers me that the repaired reeds are not fixed the same way as the rest of the reeds.
Last Edited by STME58 on Sep 23, 2014 9:31 PM
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arzajac
1480 posts
Sep 24, 2014
5:34 AM
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I don't sell a reed removal kit because they are so easy to make and relatively expensive to ship (they are thick and heavy).
If you have access to a metal store, you can buy a small 3/8 inch thick steel bar. Drill a 3/32 inch hole in one part and make one surface flat. You can grind down an old drill bit to make a sharp point. You should also get a small piece of 3/8 inch steel and make one end as flat as you can.
Put the reed plate upside down and position the rivet head into the 3/32 hole. Use a small hammer to drive the sharp point into the tail of the rivet.
Then flatten the hole in the reed plate.
Then tap (or drill and tap) the hole, drill to enlarge the new reed rivet pad and screw in your new reed. You can make the hole in the hew reed rivet pad larger to allow wiggle room - the hole in the new reed may be off-center... If the hole in the reed plate is not straight or the surface is not flat, you will fight with the reed to get it straight.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Sep 24, 2014 5:34 AM
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Gnarly
1118 posts
Sep 24, 2014
8:18 AM
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@STME58 I don't think Suzuki Japan uses that for repairs--I think Vern Smith has experimented with small welders such as these--
Using screws to attach reeds is fine with me, I usually use the rivet from the Donor Reed when working on those o-ther harmonicas . . .
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arzajac
1481 posts
Sep 24, 2014
8:39 AM
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Sep 24, 2014 8:39 AM
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harpwrench
918 posts
Sep 24, 2014
10:21 AM
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www.spiersharmonicas.com
High performance harmonicas.
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MP
3261 posts
Sep 26, 2014
3:49 PM
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There are many ways to skin a cat. I swear by the early Seydel red handled reed popper. AFAIK there were two versions of the red handle type and I have both. The 1st is much sturdier. The aqua colored handle model is not something I care for and one of the few things Gmaj7th and I disagree on.
I'll take a pliers type over any other type of reed removal tool. Speed, accuracy, and efficiency are big factors all my work. Oh, I like symmetry and aesthetics too.
I have a reed removal video where I warn about the rivet hitting you in the eye. I mention it kind of jokingly but it would probably not feel very good.
I should do a video showing the screw post method in depth plus how to cut a tiny relief in the comb if the reed in question is a draw reed on an MB type.
I've found most people find my re-use of the rivet method too hard save Harveyharp and SuperBee.
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Affordable Reed Replacement
Marks Harmonica Tune-up
Click user name MP for contact info
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JustFuya
602 posts
Oct 09, 2014
12:43 PM
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My tool kit is nothing to brag about and I share only to establish the low end standard.
Gapping, reed alignment and cleaning are the only operations I perform on my harps at this time. The magnified work fixture with adjustable led light and alligator-clip work holders is VERY, VERY COOL ... but absolutely useless on harps at this point. I prefer to hold the plate to a window or lamp for checking reed alignment. It might come in handy if I ever get into tuning and have to add material.
So here is my complete tool kit less the reed wrench I fabricated to align the reeds. I wore it out quickly and I will likely buy one that is specifically made for the job and made of quality tool material. (They do a pretty good alignment job at the factory so I rarely have to do that adjustment anyway).
Note: I am opposed to aligning the reed by inserting a shim between the reed and slot and levering the reed into position. I'm not saying it's bad practice but it doesn't feel right to me.
The screwdriver is a very handy PZ 1X80.
I made my plink/pokes from 5052 aluminum welding rod. Smashed the ends on an anvil, filed the profile smooth for cosmetic reasons and then sanded the work end to a slight taper and razor sharpness at the end. I'd rather not have to push the reed up from the far side if I can avoid it.
Starting from the left, I use the first tool to fine tune assembled harps. The second is for unassembled reed plates. The one on the right has a dull rounded end and I use it for straightening reeds. It is especially useful for pushing the reed into the slot at the rivet end. Most of my OOTB reeds have a gap at the rivet end that bugs me so I start my straightening right there. Probably took me 10 minutes to make these tools.
Note: I'd like to have a clamp of some sort that holds the entire rivet pad surface firmly while I straighten the reed.
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MP
3269 posts
Oct 09, 2014
2:09 PM
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JustFuya,
I have several tools made of wire hangers that look a lot like your lower picture.
They are used for cleaning gunk from grooves on reed plates, plinking, straightening reeds, tuning support, I can heat them to apply wax too if necessary. Just grasp it w/ a rag so you don't burn your hand. There are other uses too but you get the idea. You don't need top shelf brass tools to work on reeds.
I think i'll drive this point home again. Most tool kits are for tuning or hot rodding.
The main problem with a harp is a broken reed. If you can hear it is out of tune your kit is worthless to fix it. The reed has gotta go.
I tried the Lee Oskar kit many times before I figured out the reeds on my Hohners weren't just out of tune. They were dead.
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Affordable Reed Replacement
Marks Harmonica Tune-up
Click user name MP for contact info
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S-harp
226 posts
Oct 11, 2014
12:07 AM
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The Hering Tool Kit includes reed replacing tools that work great with all diatonic harmonicas, except older MS-harps with wider rivet heads. I still use them in my my "on the road kit"
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The tone, the tone ... and the Tone
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S-harp
227 posts
Oct 11, 2014
12:22 AM
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Check e-bay for used clock/watch tools ... you can get a filled tool box real cheap ...
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The tone, the tone ... and the Tone
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Kingley
3719 posts
Oct 11, 2014
2:02 AM
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I wholeheartedly agree that you don't need expensive tool kits for tuning and fixing harps. My current kit consists of 3 small screwdrivers, a Swiss army knife (Spartan model), a file, a feeler guage, a small socket, Arzajac's reed wrench, a Seydel rivet removing tool and a chromatic tuner. Don't need anything else.
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JustFuya
611 posts
Oct 11, 2014
3:23 PM
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I have been looking for an image of a new Hohner rivet. The shape and form of an installed rivet just seems so undignified with the nail head and no tail on the far side. Almost looks like they snipped off a piece of welding wire to make the rivet.
Anyway, here is an excellent low res video of Richard Sleigh replacing a reed. He demonstrates a slick trick for centering the reed:
http://rsleigh.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Reed-Replacement-with-rivetweB0.mov
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Meaux Jeaux
5 posts
Oct 26, 2014
8:53 PM
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While I was fortunate enough to get f&R Farrell tools before they went out of business, much of what I have is cobbled together, with many tools given to me by my dentist friend. For instance, a 2mm bone saw makes a sweet draw scraper. Ask your dentist, much of what was given to me was no longer efficient enough for dental work but is fine for harmonica.
Pete
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