DanP
312 posts
Nov 25, 2016
4:07 PM
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I have some harmonicas where the covers leave parts of the reed plates exposed. Like the Marine Band 14 hole No. 365, for example. What's the best way to clean brass reed plates without using a chemical based cleaner? Thanks.
Last Edited by DanP on Nov 26, 2016 7:01 AM
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Thievin' Heathen
882 posts
Nov 25, 2016
5:26 PM
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When everyone has weighed in on the non-chemical way to do it, I'd like to hear opinions on Tarn-X. I've used it a few times, but not for more than about 30 seconds. It did not work like the T.V. commercial, as I had hoped, and come out all shiny.
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Sherwin
229 posts
Nov 25, 2016
5:54 PM
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Jeweller's rouge on a piece of strop leather
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Reever Sorio
15 posts
Nov 25, 2016
7:26 PM
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Barkeepers Friend and a good rinse. For one hundred percent non-chemical, salt and vinegear, or catsup.
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dougharps
1305 posts
Nov 25, 2016
7:50 PM
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IMHO
No need to clean the plates, when you use it, it is buried in your hands anyway.
If it plays well as you make music, remember, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
Learn to love that vintage patina...
If it starts having problems, then do what you need to do to get it working again.
It is about making music.
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Doug S.
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DanP
313 posts
Nov 26, 2016
6:57 AM
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Yes, Doug, I know it's about making music but when you have a vintage harp and you don't know who or what has had their mouth on it, I sure as hell don't like putting my mouth on it until its as clean as possible.
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florida-trader
1038 posts
Nov 26, 2016
7:54 AM
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There are all sorts of things you can use to clean brass. It just depends on whether you want to clean the reed plates or if you want to make them look like new again. If you want to remove all the tarnish and make them look like new, use Barkeeper's Friend. Works like a charm. Gently scrub the plates with a soft toothbrush and in less than a minute your plates will be shiny. If you just want to clean them and not necessarily remove all the tarnish (and there's a good arguement for that) then I just use toothpaste. It is mildly abrasive and does a good job cleaning the metal without removing the patina. Plus, there is nothing to worry about when you put the harp in your mouth when you are finished. About not removing the tarnish. I have to give credit to Joe SPiers for this one. I read something he wrote earlier this year and it made a lot of sense to me. Tarnish is an oxide. It is rust. The tarnish/oxide/rust is a thin layer that coats the metal and that thin coat effectively tightens the tolerances on the reeds and reed slots. It is a benefit. If you remove all the tarnish, and then do your reed work - tuning, gapping, etc. - the metal is going to tarnish again and could ultimately affect the work you have done. So by starting with plates that are already tarnished, you reduce the likelihood of the tuning to drift or the tolerances to change all that much. When I read this, I thought it made a lot of sense and it has affected the way I restore vintage harps.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
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Gnarly
2018 posts
Nov 26, 2016
8:03 AM
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Hey Dan,
As you know, I fix other people's harps. Sometimes I like to polish them up, and have found a product that works well.
It's called MAAS, and is safe for polishing things you put in your mouth.
I bought it online, but you might be able to find it where you are.
Here is their website.
https://www.maasinc.com/
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DanP
314 posts
Nov 26, 2016
8:41 AM
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Tom and Gnarly, Thanks very much guys. I recently received two Marine Band harmonicas as gifts. One is a pre-war 1896 Marine Band that I estimate to be circa 1937 and the other a 14 hole Marine Band. The box for the latter is red and made of cardboard. I not sure of the date on it. My guess is late 1940's. I have not played them other than to see if all the reeds work which they do. Whoever had the 10-hole harp was a heavy smoker and there's a little bit of rust taste. I would like to clean the whole harp but I'm afraid I would mess it up especially since it has nails which about all old harmonicas have. Is it possible to clean a wood Marine Band comb without taking it apart or would I have to take it to a professional customizer? Thanks again.
Last Edited by DanP on Nov 26, 2016 8:50 AM
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dougharps
1306 posts
Nov 26, 2016
8:41 AM
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Sorry, Dan. I thought your post was about keeping reed plates shiny, not about sanitizing a used harp.
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Doug S.
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DanP
315 posts
Nov 26, 2016
8:45 AM
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That's cool, Doug. The original question was probably misleading.
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florida-trader
1039 posts
Nov 26, 2016
9:38 AM
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Dan - if you are planing to restore a pre-war or any used Marine Band, you are better off removing the nails and replacing them with screws. Even though they are old, there is very little value to the vintage harps other than for how they play. So if you want to make it valuable (to you or anyone else) focus on making it playable and easy to maintain. That means replacing the nails with screws. Once apart, cleaning each reed plate individually is much easier. Also, if there is dried gunk inside the comb, you will be able to get at it easier when the harp is disassembled. If you plan to ue the original comb, you would be well served to flat and and seal it as well.
If you were to send it to a "professional customizer", in all liklihood, that is exactly what they would be inclined to do. I have restored literally 100's of pre-wars so I guess I am about as close to a restoration professional as you will find. Restoration and customization are not necessarily the same thing although the two skills can and do overlap. Do you need a professional to do it? Nope. Restoring a vintage Marine Band is relatively simple and it is a project that lots of guys have really enjoyed doing. If you are mechanically inclined and want to tackle the project, I would encourage you to do so. You might start another thread asking for advice about restoring a vintage Marine Band. I am sure you would get lots of great information. You can email me directly too if you want. I would be happy to help you.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Last Edited by florida-trader on Nov 26, 2016 9:40 AM
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dchurch
66 posts
Nov 26, 2016
9:49 AM
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Go for it. You wont mess anything up. Just be careful not to snag a reed or over clean the wood.
I recommend you dismantle the harps. Clean them and seal the wood, check the gaps and tuning... then reassemble. It's well worth the effort and experience. I like rounding and shinning up the exposed edges.
I recommend you replace the nails with screws but you dont have to especially if you seal the comb and work the finish into the old nail holes. But screws are better for future cleaning... if these are going to be put to regular use.
Agree with toothpaste. I use an electric orbital toothbrush, held perpendicular.
***But, don't use a toothpaste that contains any type of sparkle or color bits. I made that mistake once and learned these were actual particals that did not disolve well. They wedge into gaps... not good.
However, having a professional customizer do the work would be an excellent worry free path to take.
I just posted and notice Tom caught me while typing... anyway, "ditto".
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It's about time I got around to this.
Last Edited by dchurch on Nov 26, 2016 9:52 AM
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Thievin' Heathen
883 posts
Nov 26, 2016
10:01 AM
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It might be a good idea to get a $5 Marine Band off of ebay to experiment on first before you start working on the Pre-War gift harp. Screws are definitely the way to go but you need a tight drill press. Turret wobble is hell on pear wood.
@Tom – I have been holding out, hoping that a collector's market might materialize, but I believe you have hit the nail on the head. For the foreseeable future, probably our lifetime at least, old harmonicas only have value as playable instruments to players.
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florida-trader
1040 posts
Nov 26, 2016
11:27 AM
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Thievin - The collectors know where to find the vintage harps faster and cheaper than we do. Every once in a while I stumble across something that I beleive is actually collectable. Like just this week I am pretty excited because I think I may have discovered the "Missing Link". I just took delivery of a Mouse Ear MB and it is pretty much exactly like the predecessor to the Marine Band 1896 which is the Up to Date 1896 1/2. The comb and reed plates are a little bigger than the current version (which is the same size as all my other pre-wars) and the covers are identical except for the stamping. This harp has some value. I might end up donating it to the Harmonika Museum in Trossingen. I have donated a couple of harps to them in the past. Not sure yet. May have to keep this one.
Anyway, I think you will find that a well-restored pre-war that plays like butter holds more interest for most guys.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
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Thievin' Heathen
884 posts
Nov 26, 2016
12:44 PM
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Tom – I recently got a Mouse Ear MB very close, I think, to the one you have. 4 nails across the bottom of the draw plate. Plates the same size as modern MB. Peach Wood comb, I think. It's harder than Pear Wood. I want to play it, so it now has screws, which I think destroys any real future collector value.
I have 2 that I will not be drilling. 1 is a Hohner Band which I have no idea of its' age and the other is a “Contest” built by Rauner-Seydel-Bohm and my Wiki research tells me that one could have only been built between 1927 and 1930 when those 3 companies merged to fight being bought out by Hohner during the Great Depression. That is the one I hold out on as ever becoming a collectable.
I find it very interesting to think of harmonicas being hand built while the German economy was collapsing and Adolph Hitler was making speeches in beer halls. Hohner would soon be building artillery fuses and bombs would be falling on the factories. Why these little microcosms of craftsmanship and art from that time in history are not highly collectable is beyond me.
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mlefree
788 posts
Nov 26, 2016
10:17 PM
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You might want to reconsider aggressively cleaning your old reed plates and just disinfect them. The patinaa actually helps close the gaps between reed plate slots and reeds.
I found this out from Joe Spiers when I sent him an old Special 20 to do his "Pro Stock" reed work. I used Barkeeper's friend to remove all the patina and corrosion from the reed plates, thinking Joe would rather work on shiny reed plates than old, dingy ones.
Wrong! Joe informed me that I had inadvertently made his job much harder. That's when I learned about how the patina is actually beneficial.
Worth considering if you want the best possible performing restored harmonicas. I know I have stopped using Barkeeper's Friend on my harmonicas.
Michelle
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SilverWing Leather - Custom leather creations for musicians and other eccentrics.
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florida-trader
1041 posts
Nov 27, 2016
7:08 AM
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Thievin - you kinda missed my point about the size of the "missing link" Marine Band. It is larger than the modern version of the MB or every other pre-war that I have. It is the same size as the Up to Date 1896 1/2. I will post pictures in a little while.
I had one of those Rauner-Seydel-Bohm harps. It was in pretty rough shape, but I totally restored it and gave it to the guys at Seydel. The Seydel guys tell me that unlike Hohner, where there are 1000's of vintage harps floating around, the old Seyel harps are hard to find. I've given them a few harps as I find them - generally when I see them at SPAH.
As far as collectibility, it is really a case of supply and demand. They just aren't that rare. They can be found. I have about 150 - 175 pre-wars in stock right now. I've sold a lot of the Mouse Ears recently so I'm getting low on those but I find them pretty regularly.
Some of the old boxes have language printed on them to the effect of "Hohner employs over 6000 workers and produces over 20 million harmonicas a year." Twenty million. And that's been going on for the past, oh one hundred years. And given the popularity of the Marine Band, it is safe to assume that a significant percentage of the 20 million produced each year are indeed Marine Bands. So there are a lot of them out there and more are popping up all the time.
I do understand your sentiment though. I don't think of it in terms of what the political climate was in Germany at the time. But I do think about it in terms of the craftsman that built the harps and then the people who played them before they came into my possession. I think about how that craftsman would feel if he knew that something he made 80-90 even 100 years ago is still making beautiful music. And I wonder about the guy who played it. What kind of music did he make? Did this harp see the insides of some smoke filled bars or was it used to play parlour music? It is kind of neat to help keep some of these old harps alive.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
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DanP
316 posts
Nov 27, 2016
11:59 AM
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@ Tom. I decided to take your advise and replace the nails on my prewar Marine Band with screws. I also decided to replace the comb so I bought one of your anodized aluminum combs. I figure the original comb can be put back if it ever becomes a valuable collector's item. Thank you much for your help. @ Michelle, I'm not sure I know what patina is. On the parts of the brass that I can see, it has a funky looking black stuff on it. I don't know what it's called. I've not taken the covers off yet so I don't know what all I'll find. I do know I want to scrub any oxidation off because I don't like a rust taste. Thank you for your post. @DC, those are some great pictures. Thank you and everybody else for posting.
Last Edited by DanP on Nov 27, 2016 2:41 PM
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florida-trader
1042 posts
Nov 27, 2016
12:28 PM
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DanP - Patina and Tarnish are the same thing. However, Tarnish has a bit of a negative stigma wheras Patina is construed as positive. I am very much on the same page as Michelle. I read the same post she did from Joe Spiers. If the reed plates have a visible layer of gunk on them, that is probably dried saliva and should be removed. If the plates just have a dull finish but they look clean as in nothing impeding the movement of the reeds through the slots, then that is good enough. You won't taste any rust. If there is any unpleasant odor you can rinse or eve soak the plates in mouthwash.
I saw your order. Thanks for your business. Since this seems to be your first venture into converting a MB 1896 to screws, I will send you all the hardware you need - cover plate screws, reed plate screws, drill bit and tap. I will also send you some instructions which will include a step by step approach to the project.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
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DanP
317 posts
Nov 27, 2016
12:56 PM
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Thank you very much, Tom. I do appreciate it.
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Sherwin
231 posts
Nov 27, 2016
5:27 PM
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dchurch, I like the look of the fasteners you have, holding on the coverplates on your Marine Band. Where can I find some of those?
They go well with the overall look of an 1896.
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dchurch
67 posts
Nov 30, 2016
11:29 PM
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Sherwin, Sorry it took so long to respond.
The fasteners were purchased from a seller in China via the auction site Search for “M1.4/M1.6 304 Stainless Steel Allen Hex Socket Cap Head Screw Bolt DIN912” I used M1.4 x 10mm (and SS nut) on the vintage MB.
I like your rouge on leather advice, practical for all kinds of polishing.
Crocus cloth would be another good non-chemical metal polisher to keep stocked. In case some reader is unfamiliar, it can be found near the sandpaper in a hardware store. It’s smooth, brick red in color and works better as you wear it out. It is very suitable for working on brass.
And back to the point of merely sanitizing a second hand MB. I still do a complete dismantle and scrub down. It can be pretty nasty between the plates and comb. I want all of the built up mystery crud out, weather that removes some patina or not. I’ve bought some old dogs with too much patina/corrosion anyway. I always seal the wood comb somehow before I consider it clean.
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It's about time I got around to this.
Last Edited by dchurch on Dec 05, 2016 6:59 AM
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mlefree
790 posts
Dec 01, 2016
10:01 AM
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I find these 3M Polishing Papers to be very effective for putting a fine finish on metals.
They're not really paper but a sort of cloth material that is flexible. You can get a mirror polish if that's what you want by gradually deceasing the grit size, down to one micron.
They're durable and last a long time. And, if you're careful you could avoid the gaps between the reeds and slots.
3M Polishing Papers
Michelle
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SilverWing Leather - Custom leather creations for musicians and other eccentrics.
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