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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
MXR Carbon Copy bypass
MXR Carbon Copy bypass
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boris_plotnikov
111 posts
May 22, 2010
9:00 AM
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I just received MXR Carbon Copy. Great tone, it fits my style better than LoneWolf HarpDelay (still great!). Two issues I dislike: it's SMD schematics (small elements). The second one - it's true bypass, but when I plug Shure sm57 microphone to impedance transformer to input of CC, bypass sound twice quieter than effect engaged or straight to amp. When I add any boss pedal before CC everything ok. It seems that there is some impedance problem. Do you have the same problems?
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http://myspace.com/harmonicaboris
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Harpaholic
119 posts
May 22, 2010
9:19 AM
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With the pedal on, the input impedance is 1 Meg ohm, and output 1 K ohm. I'd like to know how that compares to the LW's input/output? It's a true hard wire bypass.
There shouldn't be a problem in bypass?
Hopefully we will both learn something?
A friend of mine let me borrow his for a couple weeks, and I didn't notice any tone or volume loss in bypass using all HiZ mics, but I didn't focus on that.
It's a good pedal for the money.
I prefer the harp friendly LW over the CC. It seems to like hot mics a lot more than the CC.
Last Edited by on May 22, 2010 6:13 PM
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hvyj
357 posts
May 22, 2010
10:01 AM
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I like my CC, and although it's supposed to be true bypass, I'm not so sure that it actually is. I use a 545 Ultimate through an IMT. I played it through the CC into a tube amp just to try the CC out and there was a significant jump in gain when the pedal was engaged as compared to when it was off. But I don't ordinarily use the CC that way.
I have it on a pedal board last in chain. i set it to slap back and leave it on all the time. All of the other pedals on the board are TB, except a MicroPog which is not TB and is second in the chain. In that set up the CC has even volume/gain whether engaged or not. i never thought about it before, but after reading Boris' post, I'm thinking that maybe having the MP in front of it evens it out. I don't know, and i don't want to take my pedal board apart to experiment.
But I like the CC a lot. If you search around on line looking at reviews, there is some debate about whether it is actually true bypass. But I'm really happy with the sound, and it has even gain levels whether engaged or not when it's on the pedalboard. Since the bass amp i use the pedalboard with has no reverb, I just leave the CC engaged all the time when i play anyway, and i love the warm, dark tone. So I'm pretty happy with it.
Last Edited by on May 22, 2010 10:12 AM
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boris_plotnikov
112 posts
May 22, 2010
10:49 AM
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hvyj
Could you try again CC alone just for me?
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http://myspace.com/harmonicaboris
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hvyj
358 posts
May 22, 2010
12:15 PM
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@Boris: It's last in chain, so it's NBD to take it off my PB. Don't have time to do it right this minute, but I'll do it and get back to you. When i have time, I'll try it by itself with both of my Fender tube amps between the mic and the amp and with my SWR bass amp (tube pre, SS power stage) both between mic and amp and in the effects loop (since the SWR has a loop).
I'll let you know....
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boris_plotnikov
113 posts
May 22, 2010
1:10 PM
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Thank you, hvyj!
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http://myspace.com/harmonicaboris
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jim
39 posts
May 22, 2010
1:16 PM
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Boris, congrats! Looking forward to seeing you live using it.
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hvyj
360 posts
May 22, 2010
9:59 PM
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Okay, Boris, I took out my Wampler Analog Delay (which I'm certain is true bypass) and took my MXR CC off my pedalboard and set up my Fender Super Reverb Reissue (a 4x10 tube amp) in my living room. I played through each pedal using a lo-z Shure 545 Ultimate through an XLR cord with a Peavey rat tail IMT on the end.
My findings: The Wampler created only a slight increase in gain and volume when engaged as compared to when it was disengaged.
The MXR created about a 25-30% increase in gain and volume when engaged as compared to when it was disengaged.
Now, most effects will increase gain and volume to some extent when you turn them on because they are usually creating more frequencies in the signal that is going to the amp. But the Wampler did not create a dramatic increase when it was turned on (probably 5% or less). When the MXR was turned on it was a fairly dramatic increase. The 25%-30% figure is just an estimate, but the increase was significant enough that it could cause feedback. So, yeah, used by itself the MXR increases gain and volume when it is engaged as compared to when it's off.
Other true bypass pedals i have are more "balanced" than the MXR CC. By that i mean the there is not a big jump in volume/gain when the effect is engaged. Now, nether the Wampler nor the MXR seem to have any effect on the tone when they are not engaged, so neither of them suck tone. But i think there might be slightly less volume in the dry signal running through the MXR as compared to the dry signal running through the Wampler, although it's hard to say for sure. I'm not at all bothered by this because when I use my MXR CC i just leave it on all the time. If I was going to use a delay pedal for really long delays or multiple repeats only on certain tunes (which i don't) I'd probably use the Wampler for that application. But I just set the MXR to slap back and leave it on all the time.
Does this give you the information you are after, or do you want me to do further comparisons?
Last Edited by on May 22, 2010 10:30 PM
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boris_plotnikov
114 posts
May 22, 2010
10:27 PM
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Thank you very much!!!
Just some more questions
1) Do you compare CC bypass with mic straight to the amp?
For mine mic straight to the amp seems to be twice louder than CC bypass and close to CC volume engaged.
2) Do you try to put MicroPOG before to compare CC bypass with microPOG and without? When I put boss pedal in bypass before CC it seems it match impedances and CC bypass works ok.
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http://myspace.com/harmonicaboris
Last Edited by on May 22, 2010 10:29 PM
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hvyj
361 posts
May 22, 2010
10:51 PM
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Boris, before your post went up, I just edited my previous post to address the bypass signal question..
When I use the MXR on my pedalboard into my SWR the MP is in front of it in the chain and I do NOT get the big difference in gain/volume when the MXR is turned on or off.
Now, the MP is NOT TB and even when the MP is off, the dry signal running through it is "hotter" than if the MP were not in the chain. Because of this, it drives my RotoSim a little too hard just by being there, so i had to adjust the internal trim pots on the RotoSim in order to turn down the gain and volume of the RS after i put the MP on my board. So i suspect the MP ramps up the dry signal going into the MXR and makes it sound "hotter" or more balanced with the wet signal when the MXR is engaged. I'm just speculating about this, but I've had a ton of experience working with this pedalboard during performances.
If you are curious, the PB is configured as follows: RetroSonic Phaser>EH MicroPog>DSL RotoSim>custom Loooper A/B pedal to select between outputs on the RS>MXR Carbon Copy Delay>into SWR Baby Baby Blue acoustic bass amp. The Phaser and the RS are TB for sure and the Loooper A/B pedal is mechanical (only needs power for its LEDS, not to operate) so it can't be anything but true bypass. I'm certain the MP is NOT TB because AnalogMan offers a true bypass mod for the MP. I used to use the Wampler Analog Echo pedal before i got the MXR CC, but I like the MXR CC better because the tone is darker and it compresses the highs a little which i like.
So, does this answer your questions?
Last Edited by on Aug 08, 2010 6:13 AM
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boris_plotnikov
115 posts
May 23, 2010
1:50 AM
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hvyj
Thank you very much for you input and experimenting.
I still didn't understand the only thing is really your MXR engaged louder than mic straight to amp?
I didn't notice any additional volume when MXR is on (comparing to mic straight to amp). But It' noticeable volume drop when MXR is bypassed (comparing to mic straight to amp). Is yours the same?
You have great rig, similar to mine (at my profile). I love using octavers for fatness (I use Boss HR-2 now), phasers and rotary simulators and to make hammond-like sounds. Do you have some recordings?
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http://myspace.com/harmonicaboris
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hvyj
362 posts
May 23, 2010
6:04 AM
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Boris,
Okay, I just played with the mic straight into my SRRI and then into the SRRI with the MXR engaged. The MXR engaged is about 25% louder than the mic straight into the amp.
When I play through the MXR disengaged and then straight into the amp there is a very slight decrease in volume through the MXR as compared to straight into the amp.
In my earlier post I said i thought the volume going through the MXR dry was slightly lower than the volume going through the Wampler dry. Well, the difference in volume between going straight into the amp and going through the MXR disengaged is about the same as the difference in volume between the Wampler disengaged and the MXR disengaged.
Conclusion: The Wampler is a very transparent device. But I like what the MXR does to the sound when it's on.
You know, I just woke up , but in a little while I'm going to set up my SWR and put the MXR into the effects loop and see if that evens out the response. I'll let you know.
I use the gizmos on my PB separately and in combination to get some pretty unharmonica like sounds. But I don't really consider the delay an effect. Since my SWR has no reverb I just leave the delay on all the time and consider it part of the sound reinforcement as if it were part of the amp. I like the other pedals because they RESPOND to my playing technique instead of just being sound effects. Other musicians have also commented about this. So,when i use them it's almost like playing a different instrument.
I use the electronics more for jazz and reggae (and rock) than i do for blues and R&B. But I can get a sort of tube compression sound with the phaser, so I do use that pedal more often than the others when playing blues.
With the MP, I don't set it up for the usual fat octaver sound. I "scoop" the dry octave by setting the dry octave knob at 10 o'clock. Then I set the upper and lower octave controls at 2 o'clock or 2:30 (setting them both the same). Using a lo-z PA style mic this produces a very cool 70's synth type keyboard like sound. Really interesting and useful. Especially useful for me since i don't ordinarily play (phrase) my harmonica like it's a harmonica anyway.
I've listened to your stuff and I admire your playing a great deal. I don't have any recordings on the web. This may change because the bandleader of the blues band I play in also has other bands and he will eventually record the blues band and post the recordings on his website like he does with his other bands. I'll keep you posted about that. But I don't usually use the pedals a whole lot with that band.
Btw, I read one of your recent posts where you were saying that your 1x12 tube amp had adequate volume, but not enough cut to compete with loud guitars played through Marshalls (or something like that). In a situation like that, even though your amp may have sufficient volume, it may not be moving enough air to cut through with only one speaker. My SWR is plenty loud, (120 watts) and will not feed back but it's 1x10. It's been more than adequate for any situation I've used it in so far, but my blues band rocks pretty hard. So I just bought an SWR 1x10 extension speaker cab I found on ebay (SWR doesn't make them any more) for situations where I may need the capacity to move more air to cut through. The SRRI (4x10) is perfect for that, but i don't like using the pedal board into a tube amp. Just thought I'd pass this along FWIW.
Last Edited by on May 23, 2010 6:28 AM
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boris_plotnikov
116 posts
May 23, 2010
11:20 AM
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Thanks for experimenting again. I think I'll give my CC to engineer to make it really true bypass.
I don't use delay as an effect too. I need delay for short slapback (fatness!) too and it usually on. But sometimes (at rehearsals) I need to turn it off to singer sings through my mike.
I want MicroPOG for me too (((: Great idea of using it such way!
I'm waiting for your recordings.
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http://myspace.com/harmonicaboris
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hvyj
368 posts
May 23, 2010
12:54 PM
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Boris,
I did some comparisons playing through the MXR CC into my SWR (tube preamp, solid state power stage): Using the MXR between the mic and the amp, the differences between engaged volume and bypassed volume were still there, but maybe not quite as dramatic as with the SRRI. Difference between the bypassed volume and straight into the amp was the same as it was with the SRRI. With the MXR CC in the effects loop the difference between bypassed volume and engaged volume was about 30%--at least as much as it was between the mic and the amp when I used the SRRI (which, btw, is not what i expected),
I also tried the MXR CC between the mic and the amp going into my Princeton Reverb RI tube amp (1x10) and the results were the same as with the SRRI. The PRRI is the same wattage as a Blues Junior.
Now, one problem with having pedals modified to convert them to TB is you may get an audible click or pop when you turn them on and off after the mod. Whether this will be loud enough to be heard at performance volumes depends on how loud you are playing and whether it's the first time the effect has been "cycled' during the performance. Also I've heard that sometimes TB mods can interfere with LED function, but I'm not sure about that.
Before having someone try to modify it, I'd email Mike, the owner of AnalogMan, and ask him about this pedal and what can be done to it to even out the engaged volume and bypassed volume. He's a VERY knowledgeable guy and doesn't mind responding to emails. Being in Russia (he's in Connecticut, USA) you probably wouldn't have him do the work, but he should be able to give you good info.
If you only turn your CC off at rehearsals to let the singer use your mic and you are otherwise happy w/ the sound, why bother with a mod?
Personally, I'm leaving my CC the way it is, putting it back on my pedalboard, leaving it on all the time, and hopefully living happily ever after.....
Last Edited by on May 23, 2010 1:01 PM
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boris_plotnikov
117 posts
May 23, 2010
1:18 PM
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hvyj
I mostly use it in the pedalboard too, always on, so it's not a big deal for me, just want from my gear to work properly in any possible situations.
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http://myspace.com/harmonicaboris
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hvyj
370 posts
May 23, 2010
1:31 PM
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Perfect is the enemy of good. You may have it modified and you may get an annoying pop when you turn it on and off or some other disadvantage may result from the mod. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.
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