arzajac
283 posts
Jul 12, 2010
6:05 AM
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I reckon no, they have not all been done.
A riff is just a small piece of the whole. Substitute the word "song" or "album" for the work "riff" in your question. Then substitute the word "note".
I mean, we've been enjoying music made up from the same old 12 semitones for a long time...
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tookatooka
1521 posts
Jul 12, 2010
6:53 AM
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Yeah, I may have my terminology wrong but I was thinking along the lines of the Hootchie Kootchie riff, the Little Walter riff, the Broomduster riff, the Good Morning riff etc. etc.
Can't remember the last time I heard a new one that got the Blues community talking about it.
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toddlgreene
1523 posts
Jul 12, 2010
7:02 AM
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They're only all used if you allow yourself to only copy and emulate them and never improvise and come up with your own riffs. Copying is a great way to learn, of course, and some folks even base their careers on it(who's the guy that does the spot-on LW sound?), but once you're comfortable enough on the instrument, you'll come up with your own. Will it NOT sound a little or a lot like something that's already been done on countless millions of different-media recordings? Good luck with that-but there's still room for originality.
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
Last Edited by on Jul 12, 2010 7:42 AM
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kudzurunner
1650 posts
Jul 12, 2010
8:43 AM
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It's a good question. Songwriters call what you're asking about the "hook." The descending run at the end of "Messin' With the Kid" is a hook. The stop-time riff at the beginning of "Hoochie Coochie Man" is a hook of sorts. The opening riff of "Sunshine of Your Love" is a memorable hook, which is why "Ina Gada Davita" (sp??) reprised it, sort of.
Certainly Jon Popper came up with a new harmonica vocabulary, although not perhaps the sort of instantly recognizable hook you're talking about
The opening of Art Blakey's "Moanin'" is a great hook, which is why I play it.
"Juke" is a masterful hook. The opening riff. Hard to imagine our instrument without it. But of course it wasn't exactly new, as Snooky Pryor was quick to point out.
Great question. I'm quite sure new things remains to be discovered, but the question reflects the burden of tradition. It might be worth you sitting down with a harp and trying to come up with something striking and new.
I tried that with "Juke" opening riff by starting on the 3 draw and moving upward to the 7 draw: displacing the entire riff up one hole:
3d, 4d, 5b, 6b, 7d 7d.....
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barbequebob
1017 posts
Jul 12, 2010
8:56 AM
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The only way to find something new is to keep playing, but NOT just the same riffs you;ve been playing and practicing 24/7 for years, and the key to finding someting different is CONSTANT experimentation and losing ALL fears of looking like an idiot in the process because if you're too scared to experiment, you NEVER learn anything and you never progress.
One of the key was is how you emphasize certain notes in a phrase differently, differing breath levels, how you use your hands/fingers in the process, and this is just for starters and also listen to a wide variety of things, not just your heroes or your favorite music only because often times you learn more from the stuff you hate than you do with what you like and in the process, find things being played from stuff you weren't crazy about in things you love.
If you fear screwing things up, you never progress. All of the greats copped stuff done by their heroes but it never let them be afraid of experimenting and coming up with their own thing and those who are afraid of sounding like crap experimenting, never do much. Improvising anything will have you repeat yourself at times, but that is also a part of the tradeoff that goes along with it as part of the process and you gotta let go of it or you just stagnate. Even with the traditional stuff, you CAN still find your own voice that meshes with it, yet still sound like yourself, but it means experimenting and not being afraid to take chances.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Jim Rumbaugh
262 posts
Jul 12, 2010
9:28 AM
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Perhaps it depends on your definition of "BEST HARP LICKS"
My first respnse, "NO", there are still more to come. I see no limit to the number of licks that can be done.
The problem comes from what makes a lick "good". It ussually is linked to a good song. I would guess there are many great licks you'll never hear because it was played on a "dud" tune. Most of these licks remind you of a favorite song. That's what makes you like them.
And BTW, I play the Ina-Goda-Divida lick on the harp in 3rd position.
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intermediate level (+) player per the Adam Gussow Scale, Started playing 2001
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walterharp
407 posts
Jul 12, 2010
12:29 PM
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adam,
i agree that john popper is one of the best at making new "hooks" and is probably not given near enough credit for that song writing skill he has.
no, not all the good licks are gone, just most of the good ones are already taken :-)
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waltertore
764 posts
Jul 12, 2010
12:39 PM
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I agree with you 100% Bob! I follow this route and it has cost me over the years. Like going down to the International Blues Challenge and playing my piano, which I had only been messing with for a few months prior. Also when I used a real bass and drummer we would find new grooves on the bandstand. they were raw, and often times this was the same time some record guy was in the audience to hear us. Music gets as boring as anything that one does over and over again if you aren't willing to let go and drift. I post lots of songs with grooves I discovered as I recorded them. There are no mistakes if you don't aknowledge them as such. I have seen tons of guys mess up onstage with a chord change or note and their entire body language emmited SCREWED UP. If I hit something wrong, I go with it. It usually leads to new ground and it leaves about as fast as it came, but returns over time and soon it becomes a solid groove in your bag. I don't go back and try to recapture these things. That is no fun for me. I like to let them come out when they are ready again. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
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Joch230
239 posts
Jul 12, 2010
1:16 PM
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Walter,
I had a guitar teacher who always said that if you mess up while improving....just repeat it again, like you meant to do it....and call it jazz!
-John
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Oisin
598 posts
Jul 12, 2010
1:40 PM
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I remember playing Satan and Adams "Unlucky in Love" for the first time to my teacher a few years ago and he instantly rewound the song to hear it again. He loved that hook and said he was going to nick it first chance he got.
I heard that song on a compliation album of harmonica music and it stood out as the most original song on the whole thing. Not just the notes but the tone as well.
I definetely think there are many more riffs to come.
Oisin
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Oisin
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kudzurunner
1651 posts
Jul 12, 2010
1:48 PM
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Oisin: There's a lesson in that riff. It came about because Sterling Magee was playing a new song of his own composition and I was trying to find something that would match him. The lesson is: it's much easier to come up with new & innovative riffs when you're playing with a highly creative musician. Simply keeping up with him (or her) forces you to make it new.
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Oisin
601 posts
Jul 12, 2010
2:04 PM
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It is one of my all time favorite riffs Adam. I hope that someday (soon) I get to play with someone who would inspre me to come up with something as good as that.
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Oisin
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mikolune
35 posts
Jul 12, 2010
4:13 PM
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I read recently on Wikipedia (searching for harp stuff) about a musical challenge proposed by some important composer in early 20th century - can't remember the name. The challenge was to produce 2 bars of completely original music. I am not sure what exactly the criterion was for completely original, but apparently no one succeeded.
Anyone heard of this challenge ? I surfed on it by chance and sounded pretty interesting, but cannot find it anymore ...
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hvyj
445 posts
Jul 12, 2010
4:58 PM
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It's not just about WHAT you play... HOW you play it can make it your own.
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LittleJoeSamson
346 posts
Jul 13, 2010
12:09 AM
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Oh, there's so much to agree with here, re: Adam & BBQ Bob.
Sometimes, one develops "riffs" or hooklines. Other times, they just happen.
Our band does "Love the One You're With" in a completely different groove than normal. So, I had to come up with an inventive "hook". The best way I can describe it, is kinda a minor variation of Big Walter's solo on "Walkin' By Myself" and the marchiness of Delbert McClinton on "Got You on My Mind".
Some times, it's almost too easy.
We do The Beatles "Why Don't We Do It In the Road", and I finally came up with the response in "She's About a Woman".
Unbelievably basic...but it works ! I switch from harp to bass bugle halfway thru.
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