bluesharper
66 posts
Aug 05, 2010
6:27 AM
|
So What do you guys think other the big river harp Ive read mixed reviews on it. I mean like I dont want to buy a blues harp knowing I could buy to big rivers just as good right?
|
AV8R
30 posts
Aug 05, 2010
6:40 AM
|
I bought one in G a few months back after reading some decent reviews of it.
I was hoping, because of it's price, that it would become my "working man's" harp.....but it didn't quite hack it, I will continue to pay extra for a Marine Band or an MS blues harp.
It's all subjective, a lot of guys diss the Blues harps, but I've got two that are fantastic.
You should go ahead and get a Big River and see what you think.
|
Tuckster
691 posts
Aug 05, 2010
6:57 AM
|
I think Big Rivers are a good deal. I have quite a few in lesser used keys. Same reed plates as a Blues Harp,but brighter and louder (maybe because of the covers). From my own experience,you have a better chance of getting a good one compared to the Blues Harps.
|
Stickman
389 posts
Aug 05, 2010
7:09 AM
|
I like mine. Has a fatter profile than a Blues Harp. The covers are open on the sides and is pretty easy to open the back with a little tapping from a hammer.
----------
The Art Teacher Formally Known As scstrickland
|
bluesharper
67 posts
Aug 05, 2010
7:22 AM
|
nice im tempted to buy a couple now
|
KingoBad
321 posts
Aug 05, 2010
8:04 AM
|
Man, I forgot about the drawer I had with all of my old Big Rivers! They were fun to get out and play again. I used to love the big rivers, but I wouldn't trade my MBs for them. They are nice harps and can do just about anything you need them to do...
|
Joe_L
510 posts
Aug 05, 2010
8:08 AM
|
I've been playing them almost exclusively for the past ten years. A lot of people don't like them. They work for me. They aren't expensive. If you don't like it, you won't be out a lot of money.
|
groyster1
291 posts
Aug 05, 2010
9:01 AM
|
@JoeL
same sentiments exactly-they are 22.50 from rockinron-I personally think they are worth more-comparing them to special 20s I would give the edge to special 20s but a harp is a car harp blowers are the engine if you can light up a juke joint with a sp20 you can do it with a big river-they are not the best but far from the worst
|
Pluto
92 posts
Aug 05, 2010
9:18 AM
|
Big Rivers are great harps. Same MS reedplates as some more expensive models. With a little tweeking they can be better than MB.
Remember, its all Paul DeLay ever played.
|
MP
751 posts
Aug 05, 2010
9:19 AM
|
mark hummel was using big rivers for a time; late 90s early 00s?
maybe he still uses 'em.
----------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
|
groyster1
295 posts
Aug 05, 2010
9:21 AM
|
@pluto
did not know that about that about Paul deLay but again I heard it on the dirty south blues harp forum-a big part of my life
|
bluesharper
68 posts
Aug 05, 2010
9:40 AM
|
im really really tempted now
|
Jim Rumbaugh
273 posts
Aug 05, 2010
9:52 AM
|
It is not my favorite harp. BUT.....
I would swear that the 1 hole draw is a little louder than my SP20,Bluesharp, or Delta Frost. Ever since Adam talked about having a good 1 hole draw i have been aware of the "volume drop" on that hole.
Hmm.... time to start a new thread.
----------
intermediate level (+) player per the Adam Gussow Scale, Started playing 2001
|
arzajac
307 posts
Aug 05, 2010
10:09 AM
|
It's a decent harp, but I wouldn't buy another one. Not unless it was dirt cheap.
I can pay less than 10 dollars more and get a Marine Band, Special 20 or even a Golden Melody. I can tweak the Big River and make it play almost as well as those other harps, but I can also spend the few dollars more and tweak those other harps to be awesome.
A Big River is just over $35 here. A MB, SP20 or GM is a little over 40 (maybe less if I shop around online, including shipping)
I got a few Blues Harps dirt cheap. The wooden comb makes a difference. I tried swapping combs and the sound and feeling are not the same. I like my Blues Harps more than the Big River harps, but again, unless they are dirt cheap....
----------
Last Edited by on Aug 05, 2010 10:11 AM
|
isaacullah
1106 posts
Aug 05, 2010
10:38 AM
|
Personally, in my experience, I've found that the MS series harps just don't last as long as the handmades (MB, SP20, GM), and they also do not sound the same either. My experience is solely with Blues Harps with their original reedplates and with the replacement MS reedplates. The reeds go pretty qick on them. I've had MB's and SP20's for 3.5 years now that are still going string with daily playing, and in the same time, I went through two sets of reedplates on my two Blues Harps. Same playing style. Additionally, while you CAN overblow on them if you set them up right, you can't control the OB's as well as you can with a handmade. It has to do with the reed geometry. It's just different on the MS series than on the handmades.
Personally, I won't buy anymore MS harps, because I believe them to be a false economy (that's WHEN there really is an economy, which is ONLY with the Big Rivers). The handmades w.ill last longer, sound better, and be more in line with my playing style, so the investment of an additional $10 is well worth it to me. Your Mileage may vary, however.
----------
------------------
View my videos on YouTube!"
|
bluesharper
70 posts
Aug 05, 2010
10:50 AM
|
So Isaacullah, are you or aren't you recommending the big river harps?
|
isaacullah
1107 posts
Aug 05, 2010
11:13 AM
|
I am recommending to not buy ANY MS harps. This includes the Big Rivers. IMO, they are a false economy.
----------
------------------
View my videos on YouTube!"
Last Edited by on Aug 05, 2010 11:13 AM
|
isaacullah
1108 posts
Aug 05, 2010
11:28 AM
|
I mean that it seems like you are getting a "good deal" because the Big River is cheaper, but in the end you will end up paying more because it won't last as long as a MB.
Let's say conservatively that MB's last twice as long as Big Rivers before a reed blows out. (I think they last more like four times as long, but that's for MY style of playing, so I'll be more conservative). Let's also say then that you blow out a MB in one year. Therefore, you'll blow out TWO Big Rivers in that same period.
One MB/year = $32/year.
Two Big Rivers/Year = $44/Year.
Therefore, buying a Marine Band will save you $12/year.
So the extra $10 you would pay for a $32 MB that will last you at least a year, translates to a $12 savings in the long run when you blow out your $22 Big River in 6 months and have to buy another one (or even with a set of $20 MS replacement reedplates). Make sense?
----------
------------------
View my videos on YouTube!"
Last Edited by on Aug 05, 2010 11:33 AM
|
isaacullah
1109 posts
Aug 05, 2010
11:36 AM
|
Also, couple that false economy with the fact that you just can't OB as well or as easily on MS harps, no matter how good you set them up, and for me, MS harps are just not even worth bothering with. Even if there is a REALLY great deal on them.
----------
------------------
View my videos on YouTube!"
|
mr_so&so
348 posts
Aug 05, 2010
11:48 AM
|
I like them. My experience is that they are extremely robust. I've had several for years with nary a flattened reed. Most need a little gapping out of the box though --- but most harps do.
I do agree with Isaac that the hand-made harps play better when gapped right and do overblow better. And I prefer the sound of the Marine Band, but the Big River has a very nice sound too --- loud and brassy. I find the SP20 a bit tinny sounding.
From my experience the Big River is a nice sounding and robust harp --- and a good value.
----------
|
barbequebob
1083 posts
Aug 05, 2010
12:45 PM
|
In 1992, when Hohner introduced the MS series, the Marine Band was gonna be part of that series and the classic one you still see was gonna be history and I was among those who got to try their prototype and almost EVERYONE who tried it hated it and a few big name players had written some pretty angry letters of protest threating to publicly denounce them and dump their endorsement deals for starters.
Now why am I talking about this on the subject of the Big River?? Well, if you change the inscription on the top cover plate, and place those on the MS Blues Harp, that's exactly what you'd get and Hohner in 1995 after they did a lot of retooling used the ABS plastic comb and changed the top cover plate inscription and then marketed it that way.
The very first ones all used short slot reeds and with the way they designed the harps with the reeds set so far away from the player, even the most skilled pros had a rough time getting decent bends on the 2 draw on keys from Bb and lower.
They played better once they stopped using short slot reeds (and one of the biggest complaints the pros all had was that it sounded too much like a Lee Oskar, which typically used like nearly all Asian made harmonicas, short slot reeds.)
I'm not a big fan of the MS series, but the one I have, I use a set of Cross Harp reed plates, which are thicker than the stock ones on the BR's, and beeswax fully sealed maple comb made by Mark Lavoie and it feels and sounds better than any of the stock stuff, plus you can use more reed plate screws for a tighter seal.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
|
joeleebush
45 posts
Aug 05, 2010
2:19 PM
|
I've used Big Rivers for many years..I like the sound, the price, and the plastic(?) comb. And I come down on them pretty hard too at certain places in certain songs.
I do mess with them a little. Carlos Capote (another blower here in Atlanta) uses Blues Harps and he saves me the cover plates from his old ones and they fit perfect on that BigRiver.
The Blues Harp plates do away with that gap in the ends that are on the original River covers.
I've tried Special 20 covers and they won't fit..(be ready for that) if you try.
Very rarely does a BigRiver break down on me or flatten out a reed, but once it does...well that's the end of the line for that harp. All the filing in the world won't seem to save that reed, at least for me.
|
bluesharper
72 posts
Aug 05, 2010
2:52 PM
|
Well here I order from harmonicas direct. And here an Mb costs £ 23.99
and a big river costs £ 16.99
and replacement reeds here only cost £ 12.99
|
barbequebob
1088 posts
Aug 05, 2010
6:24 PM
|
The entire MS series was designed to be easily interchangeable with parts from other MS series harps but they are NOT interchangeable with harps in the classic/handmade series at all (MB/MBD/MBXover/SP20/GM).
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
|
shanester
149 posts
Aug 05, 2010
7:45 PM
|
I have one Big River in A. I love the sound, plenty raspy and it seems loud, mayve because the covers seem to make a pretty big chamber.
It takes a little more air to play it than my self - vented sp 20's, it's kind of like driving a beat up old pickup versus a tight little new sedan, but tonally I like it a lot!
I can overblow, but not well enough to incorporate it into my playing yet, but the Big River seems harder to overblow, right now i can only get a god-awful squeal, but for low down blues you can get a very stinky tone.
----------
Shane
1shanester
"Keep it coming now, keep it coming now,
Don't stop it no don't stop it no no don't stop it no don't stop it no no..."
- KC and the Sunshine Band
|
shanester
150 posts
Aug 05, 2010
7:48 PM
|
I should mention that I haven't done a lick of gapping on it or anything else, I would love to know from a harp tweaker how responsive they are after a little TLC.
----------
Shane
1shanester
"Keep it coming now, keep it coming now,
Don't stop it no don't stop it no no don't stop it no don't stop it no no..."
- KC and the Sunshine Band
|
Joe_L
512 posts
Aug 05, 2010
8:41 PM
|
I use them exclusively and have for the past decade. They are inexpensive. Several of them, I have had for 4 or 5 years and they are still going strong. I'm not super hard on them and I don't play them gingerly.
My experience is similar to joeleebush, when a reed goes, it's usually gone. I've done some minor modifications to them and they play a better. I don't mess with them often. I prefer to play them than to work on them.
|
Jambo
9 posts
Aug 05, 2010
8:58 PM
|
I love big rivers....I have a few of evry key and have customized them with my own wooden combs. I find that the play and sound like a horn. Been playing for sometime now nand have only blown and replaced a hand full of reeds.
|
shanester
155 posts
Aug 05, 2010
9:03 PM
|
Mine is plenty tough, still in tune, seems like a great instrument.
----------
Shane
1shanester
"Keep it coming now, keep it coming now,
Don't stop it no don't stop it no no don't stop it no don't stop it no no..."
- KC and the Sunshine Band
|
shanester
156 posts
Aug 05, 2010
9:05 PM
|
Come to think of it and for what it's worth, that is the harp I am using on the poorly recorded and totally unmastered "loofa time" on my youtube, played acoustically but overdriving the camera's mic from about 6' away.
----------
Shane
1shanester
"Keep it coming now, keep it coming now,
Don't stop it no don't stop it no no don't stop it no don't stop it no no..."
- KC and the Sunshine Band
|
isaacullah
1111 posts
Aug 05, 2010
9:50 PM
|
LOL! See.... It's pointless to ask these kinds of questions on forums such as ours! Everyone has a different opinion because everyone is a different person with different abilities needs and likes. The plain and simple truth is you can only find out if this harp is "right" for you buying it and playing it a while. If you like it, then you like it, and you're golden. If you don't like it, then you've just learned a 12 quid lesson, haven't you? Either way, you end up with more knowledge and experience than you had before, so you've come out ahead.
Sure, soliciting opinions and reading reviews can be helpful. Especially if you know enough about the person(s) providing those opinions/reviews to make a judgment about how applicable they are to your specific situation. But in the end, you just have to take the plunge and lay out some dough, and just do it. After a few wild goose chases, you'll find what works for you, and then you'll know that forever. It's the only way, and when you think about, it's better that you learn for yourself than just trust what other folks say.
So I suppose that, even though I cannot recommend Big Rivers based on my own experience, I think you should definitely buy one and see if YOU like. That's the ONLY important thing.
----------
------------------
View my videos on YouTube!"
|
boris_plotnikov
186 posts
Aug 05, 2010
10:10 PM
|
MS plastic comb sucks air a lot, while reedplates are ok. I had some odd keys bigrivers (embossed and arked) in my trash box and recently bought acrilic comb, I sand comb and blow reedplate flat and they are enough good for gigging.
----------
|
htownfess
139 posts
Aug 06, 2010
4:00 AM
|
If you use the middle screw on the MS plates on a plastic MS comb, overtightening it can actually squeeze the comb inward & away from the coverplates at the 5 & 6 holes, causing leakage between the coverplates and mouthpiece. Don't crank that screw down too hard, and try learning how to arc coverplates slightly for use on sandwich-style diatonics. Old-school Micropore tape is one way to seal the plastic comb if that's a concern.
Back in March I worked over some new Big Rivers for a friend out of curiosity, and thought they are fine raw material if you're not out to build overbend harps. Tolerances, milling and alignment are all better than they used to be. However, I'd much rather do the same work on the thicker Cross Harp-style MS plates, because the Big River plates are less loud and just a bit thin in tone by comparison. I don't think thinner reedplates are a great place for the manufacturer or consumer to save money. MS is a bigger reed chopping more air so it's trying to be louder than the handmade series reedplates, but the plate thickness holds BRs back a bit. Oskar reedplates seem that way to me also, but when you customize the Oskar plates you know they are likely to last a long, long time, and that's a good tradeoff. Dunno how well recent MS are lasting, but I believe the replacement MS plates are still the thicker variety, which is a good upgrade for Big Rivers.
IMO Big River coverplates don't have as big of openings in the ends as they ought to, if they're really trying to mimic MB tones as well as they can. Drilling more holes in the ends makes a perceptible difference to me in that regard but is fussy work if you want it to look nice.
MS harps aren't as nuance-capable or overbendable as handmade series, but the thick MS plates may be louder for you, all else being equal, and sometimes that means more dynamic headroom onstage.
IMO the best thing about BRs may be the low octave keys. You'll be sucking wind if you don't at least gap them, but they sound meaty even with the thin reedplates and they're a cheap way into the low octave thang.
I have a B Oskar here from 1991 at the latest and my micrometer says it doesn't have shortslot reeds. YMMV
|
bluesharper
73 posts
Aug 06, 2010
2:59 PM
|
Hey,
Orderd 3 Big rivers in B flat, G and F i think. When they arrive in the post do you guys want me to tell you how they are?
Last Edited by on Aug 06, 2010 3:00 PM
|
Joe_L
514 posts
Aug 06, 2010
5:11 PM
|
It doesn't matter to me because even if you don't dig them, I will continue playing them. ;)
|
groyster1
299 posts
Aug 06, 2010
6:32 PM
|
@bluesharper
let us know what YOU think about them-they are a very good harp for the money my favorite hohner is special 20s bought 1 crossover it is good but overpriced--with ireland being on the euro I would think you would have an advantage on price--but a badass harp player could make a big river sound pretty good-there are so many different opinions in this forum
|
Ant138
522 posts
Aug 07, 2010
1:30 AM
|
For me Big Rivers suck, and not in a good way. I love the look and the cover plates and even the box is cool but man do they feel real cheap when you play them. I only have two and they were leaky as hell. They improved slightly with some gapping but on the whole it takes me so much effort to play them.
I respect anyone who makes these they're harp of choice, different strokes for different folks i guess :o)
----------
|
groyster1
301 posts
Aug 07, 2010
6:52 AM
|
@bluesharper again
as you see there is a huge variation on opinions in this forum and I have been guilty of letting other opinions influence me-though I do value the knowledge and help that I get from some excellent harp players,mechanics and teachers the bottom line is that its my money being spent
|
gmacleod15
74 posts
Aug 07, 2010
7:13 AM
|
My first harp (about 8 years ago) was a BR. I still have it as I never use it. This one is junk in my opinion. VERY leaky to the point that holes above 6 basically don't work. As a beginner this was problem as I thought it was me...probably partially was but 8 years later it still is hard to play. For me I prefer to spend a few more bucks and get something that plays well out of the box.
----------
MBH member since 2009-03-24
|
bluesharper
74 posts
Aug 07, 2010
2:03 PM
|
@ Groyster1
Lol yeah your right there is a really big variation on the forum. Lucky the BR's are pretty cheap over here. And yeh know if they need some TLC then thats not to hard for me to modify them.(:
|
Joe_L
518 posts
Aug 07, 2010
5:29 PM
|
@groyster1 - The key is to just play the damn things. The more you play, the better you'll get.
The better you listen and the more you play, the better you'll get.
Playing this instrument is a lot like any other instrument.
The more you play, the better you'll get.
There is no substitute for experience.
Big Rivers are inexpensive in the U.S. Accumulating a set of them won't cost a ton of money. Replacing the instruments that break isn't an expensive proposition. A lot of good music can be made on them, if one is willing to put in the time and learn.
|
groyster1
304 posts
Aug 07, 2010
6:17 PM
|
@bluesharper and JoeL
roger that!
|
hvyj
514 posts
Aug 07, 2010
6:55 PM
|
It was dissatisfaction w/ MS Proharps that eventually caused me to switch to Suzukis. I agree w/issacullah: I don't think the MS series are very good harps.
BUT, the Big Rivers have VENTED COVERS like a Marine Band does. Vented covers do sound different than unvented covers. So, Big Rivers have a somewhat different tonal quality than other MS harps which many players may find appealing.
|
groyster1
306 posts
Aug 08, 2010
4:06 AM
|
it does seem that folks feel the hohner MS series is a setback for hohner-I have bought suzukis lately and think maybe their company might have a better quality control
|
bluesharper
75 posts
Aug 08, 2010
5:58 AM
|
I actually really like the Hohner Ms series. I have a blues harp MS in D. It overblows on 4 5 and 6. Although I did emboss the reeds...
|
Stickman
390 posts
Aug 08, 2010
9:56 AM
|
Here is my favorite BR. I replaced the comb with a solid acrylic comb I scavenged from a special 150 anniversary harp I got on sale and I really believe the solid comb makes a difference. It feels better.
As for Isaacs's thoughts on economy, I would have felt the same way a year ago when I was blowing out reeds left and right. I haven't blown out a reed in many months, maybe a year. Has My improvement meant less stress on the reeds? I don't know but they seem to be holding up fine for me know (Having just said that, you know that I'm going to blow out the 4 hole on my favorite harp the very next time I pick it up.)
I do agree with Isaac in that the best way to find out is to own one.
----------
The Art Teacher Formally Known As scstrickland
|
Joe_L
520 posts
Aug 08, 2010
10:25 AM
|
"Has My improvement meant less stress on the reeds?"
Most likely, yes. Your technique has probably improved. I own several Big Rivers that get played multiple times a week that have lasted me well over three years.
I got into harp playing again because it was an inexpensive hobby. It can be.
|
barbequebob
1095 posts
Aug 08, 2010
12:28 PM
|
Anyone who tends to play too hard all the time is gonna be rough on ALL of their harps and none of them will survive very long no matter what and learning better playing and breath control ttechnique can make ANY harp laster FAR longer. It's like if you give two people brand new luxury cars, ther is often gonna be a marked difference on how long they will last just on their driving habits and maintenance habits alone. The guy who takes poor care of the car and beats on it all time (jack rabbit starts, no oil changes, etc.} is gonna make that car lst maybe 4 years max, wheras the guy who takes proper care of things and doesn't beat on it is gonna make that same car last 10+++ years, so ditto in comparison with harmonicas.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
|
isaacullah
1116 posts
Aug 08, 2010
12:58 PM
|
Thanks to Stickman for adding his views and backing up some of what I said.
I probably should have added that the Blues Harps I had (Keys of A, Bb, and C) were in my very first line up of harps that I had ever owned. I was still learning to play with control, and I have no doubts that that DID have an effect on the reed life of those harps. But I must say, that regardless of the fact that I was rougher on them then I would be now, I STILL have ALL the Marine Band's and Spec 20's that were in that line up (Low E, G, Ab, D, E, F). I make a point to try to play all the keys frequently (although not the high keys as much), and I certainly play(ed) them all with equal gusto.
I blew reeds on the Blues Harps in about 8 or 9 months of playing. Then I bought replacement reedplates for them. These were of LOWER quality. One of the high blow reeds had been tuned so much that the tip of the reed was totally filed away! These replacement plates lasted less long. Maybe 6 months. After that, I was done with MS harps. I first replaced the Bb and A Blues Harps with Seydels, but I blew them too (partly my fault, partly b/c Seydels are tighter and the reeds are slightly less robust). The Seydels lasted me only 3-4 months. I'd replaced the C Blues Harp with a Spec 20, and that's still going strong. Since then, I've replaced those Seydels with a Bb Marine Bands and an A Spec 20.
Regardless, the point I wanted to make all along was that for ME, in MY playing style, I have discovered that Marine Bands and Spec 20's are VERY long lasting, but MS harps and Seydels don't last long for ME. So for ME, it's not worth the money to buy anything else than a Marine Band or a Spec 20. I have a couple of Lee Oskars that have also lasted, but I don't like the way they play or feel in my mouth. Also, I am much more adept at self-customizing on Marine Bands and Spec 20's than at other harp types. (I replace combs, flatten reedplates, modify coverplates, and careful set gaps. I don't do any embossing). I had to lay out some serious dough to discover this (those Seydels AREN'T cheap!), but in the end, those lessons were worth it. I'm no longer that curious about trying every new brand of harp that comes out to see if it's better than what I use now. I know that I can make my Marine Bands and Spec 20's do EVERYTHING I want a harp to do. And that's some cool knowledge to have.
So again, all I can offer is my own PERSONAL experience about MS series harps. I CAN however, encourage all of you to just keep trying harps till you find what's right for YOU! :)
----------
------------------
View my videos on YouTube!"
|
hvyj
516 posts
Aug 08, 2010
1:13 PM
|
@issacullah: It's not just you. MS ProHarps would flat out on me in regular use without any particularly hard playing. They are also not very air tight.
I finally got disgusted and started to use Suzuki Hammonds. No regrets. But I don't OB.
|
