jonlaing
59 posts
Aug 25, 2010
7:21 PM
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I was just given a chromatic harmonica for my birthday, and I am really excited about it; I've always wanted to try one. It's a low end chromatic, so I guess I have to expect some quirks, but like any crappy OOTB diatonic, I assume there are tweaks to improve them.
The issue is that it is VERY leaky... to the point where I can only play 4 measures tops before being entirely winded. It's also incredibly quiet. This particular chromatic does not have windsavers, I don't know how much of a difference that makes.
I tried gapping, and it helped, but in some cases it only made things worse. It's still largely leaky and quiet.
What are some tweaks I can use to improve this harp? Also, should I put some sort of lubricant on the slide to make it run smoother?
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Diggsblues
468 posts
Aug 26, 2010
11:06 AM
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What make and model? Even the low end Chinese models like Huang
have valves.
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How you doin'
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jonlaing
62 posts
Aug 26, 2010
11:30 AM
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It's a Seydel Chromatic Standard.
http://www.seydel1847.de/epages/Seydel.sf/secwHNmQpiisFg/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Seydel/Products/50480/SubProducts/50480C
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nacoran
2626 posts
Aug 26, 2010
12:20 PM
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Huh. I'd never heard of a chrom without valves, but there it is.
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Nate
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jonlaing
63 posts
Aug 26, 2010
12:43 PM
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Well, if I ever get rid of all this work on my plate, I'll try some embossing and see how much that helps... I'm not looking for a miracle, I just want to be able to play it without getting lightheaded.
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barbequebob
1187 posts
Aug 26, 2010
12:54 PM
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Outside of a Hohner Koch chormatic (which is tuned to Richter tuning), that Seydel model is the only one I know of that doesn't come with windsaver valves.
Chromatics tend to leak in two places:
a). Just like a diatonic, they will leak in the slot tolerances, and the wider the tolerance, the more the air leaks out around the sides of the reed. (This is where windsaver valves came in and were designed to help solve this problem);
b.) Chromatics leak in one other place that will not happen on a diatonic, and that's in the mouthpiece/slide assembly.
Chromatics, compared to a diatonic, is always gonna be aeodynamically inefficient and so windsavers were designed to basically seal those leaks in the slot tolerances by working in a way like a turbo charger works in a car, recirculating the air the give more "oomph" or volume in this case and by recirculating the air, it gives the instrument much more volume.
However, like anything else, there is a tradeoff with windsaver valves. Again, it makes the chromatic play louder with a lot less wasted effort and air, but it cuts down on how far you can bend a note down. In most cases, with both reeds in the hole being valved, the most you can bend is 1/4 step MAX. However, on Hering chromatics, you can come close to 1/2 step, BUT like ALL chromatics, you have to EASE your way into it.
With the windsavers, even if you don't try to bend any notes, they will cause the reed to totally blank out if you have a tendency to play them too hard and many diatonic players new to a chromatic often fail miserably with a chromatic because they've become accustomed to playing far too hard on a diatonic, and this bad playing technique spells doom on a chromatic.
With the valves, don't even THINK about playing overblows on them because it flat out ain't gonna happen on one.
Widening a gap on a valveless chromatic will always wind up being a waste of time because it's like a gapping a diatonic with a much thicker reed plate, and so if anything, they need to be gapped somewhat lower rather than higher.
If you want more volume on a chromatic, you will need to valve it and if you eant, in addition, tighten the slot tolerances as well.
As far as the slide/mouthpiece assembly goes, if the slide sticks, the main reason is from a large build up of saliva and dead skin that has dried on it and clogging it. If there are burrs in any part of the assembly, that makes that problem even worse. One way to remove burrs on the slide/mouthpiece assembly is to go to an old school hardware store and find some extremely fine grade SOAPLESS steel wool pad and GENTLY wipe it down with steel wool (NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use any commerical stuff with soap of ANY kind on it like SOS, Brillo, etc.) and they should be gone.
Chromatics definitely are gonna need constant maintenance and so one of the things that's needed is to make sure that you clean the slide/mouthpiece assembly at least once a month or better once every two weeks because the build up of dried on saliva and dead skin can do a number on it, blocking the slide's movement, plus if it dries on the mouthpiece, it can cut the living crap out of your lips.
Breath control is an even bigger issue with a chromatic because they don't take well to being played hard at all and most players who play them too hard also often play with an extremely wet mouth and they make maintainence problems on chromatics a lot worse.
BTW, if you're feeling very winded after playing just 4 measures, sorry, but you're BIG TIME guilty of playing with an excessive amount of breath force.
If you're planning on getting valves, you can get them thru Seydel, Hohner, and several other companies, and you'll need a glue like Pliobond, Duco, or the one that Hohner uses, which is still the best stuff I've ever seen, bar none.
You can also get self sticking valves from the widow of the late Bill Romel at http://www.harmonica-workshop.com and there's some very interesting tools also available there including a reed removal tool.
As far as a lubricant, a lot of the old chromatic guys often used an extremely thin coating of petroleum jelly, some used slide oils for horns, and I think Hohner also has one as well.
One thing you'll need when doing this stuff is PATIENCE and make sure you don't do ANYTHING in a rush or wind up screwing things up worse if you're in a hurry.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Diggsblues
469 posts
Aug 26, 2010
12:58 PM
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You might try put valves on it. Embossing might work with reed arcing. Also, make sure the reed plate is
screwed down tight and make sure the mouth piece is
tight without slowing down the slide.
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How you doin'
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jonlaing
64 posts
Aug 26, 2010
1:10 PM
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thanks guys, I'm definitely going to give it a shot. I'm gunna try the embossing first, then if it's still really quiet, I'll just cave and get the windsavers.
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barbequebob
1190 posts
Aug 26, 2010
1:17 PM
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@jonlaing -- You may still need the windsavers even with the embossing. I got a chance to play a customized 64 Chromatic that had better windsavers and embossed slots and needed hardly much air to play it, and it was like butter. Buying a custom chromatic is WAAAAAAAAAAAY more expensive than a custom diatonic is gonna be, that's or sure.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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jonlaing
65 posts
Aug 26, 2010
2:53 PM
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I have no doubt. Many OOTB Chromatics are way more expensive than custom diatonics too, it seems. I'm starting to see why. It seems a lot engineering goes into compensating for all those little holes.
It's still fun to play, I just have to take big deep breaths. Also for my birthday I got a Suzuki Promaster, which I had never played before, and I'm spoiled by how loud and responsive it is.
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jim
342 posts
Aug 26, 2010
3:19 PM
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as far as the chromatics go - my suggestion is always get the BEST one. It's not a diatonic, and this thing is very complicated. All those minor improvements and differences that, say, the Saxony has over ChromaticDeluxe - they make a difference in playing BIG TIME.
If you're gonna play it and you're totally sure of it - just get a saxony straight away. It will never get out out of tune, and that alone beats any other feature on the chrom.
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www.truechromatic.com
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jonlaing
67 posts
Aug 26, 2010
3:24 PM
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@jim I was really just getting the chromatic to try it out, so I didn't want to go all the way. I do really like it though, so at a later date I will probably invest in a better one. At the moment I'm just having fun. Thanks for the advice, though.
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barbequebob
1195 posts
Aug 27, 2010
10:07 AM
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@jonalaing --- Whenever I hear anyone say big breaths, that usually means they're gonna use WAY too much breath force and with ANY chromatic, regardless if it has valves or not, that is a BAD idea and BAD playing technique because they don't respond well to that at all!!!!
@ Jim --- According to Bechtram Becher at Seydel, on the Saxony, if you don't like the metal comb on the Saxony, the lucite combs used on the Chromatic Deluxe will fit into it without a problem and I'm not a fan of metal combs.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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jonlaing
69 posts
Aug 27, 2010
11:50 AM
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@bbqbob Yeah I gave the less breath thing a shot, and it seems to be more responsive... it's just sooo quiet... I really am spoiled by the diatonics.
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dfwdlg
122 posts
Aug 27, 2010
11:56 AM
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@ Forum. Perhaps you can help another chrom-newbie.
I sucessfully cleaned my Super 64 and reassembled it for the first time after my slide was sticking. There was a tiny clear plastic tube that fell out when I disassembled the harp. I didn't seee where it came from, but tried to put it back around the little spring wire where it goes through the slide slot. The harp worked well when reassembled...and then I saw the little tube piece laying on the table. Oops. Is there a need/purpose/assembly trick for that thing-a-ma-bob?
Thx in advance!
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Jim Harris
44 posts
Aug 27, 2010
2:11 PM
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dfwdlg -- That plastic piece is a guide that the screw goes through to attach the mouth plate and slide pieces to the comb. There are TWO of them -- one surrounds each screw (2) at the comb before you put the slide pieces on. You'd better find the other one while you are at it! Their main purpose is to keep the slide aligned and not sloppy around the screws.
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jim
345 posts
Aug 27, 2010
2:28 PM
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Bob,
my chrom is exactrly that way - all parts are saxony except the comb (blue acryl), and the reeds (brass)
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www.truechromatic.com
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barbequebob
1196 posts
Aug 27, 2010
5:00 PM
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@jonlaing --- Using too much breath force is also bad playing technique for diatonics as well.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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jonlaing
71 posts
Aug 27, 2010
5:40 PM
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@bbqbob I mean, I never really feel the need to put too much force on my diatonics because they're a lot louder. I just felt like I have to dig in with the chromatic to get some volume out of it, but no longer. I think I'm going to try some embossing tonight to unwind from a long day of website development.
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jonlaing
76 posts
Aug 27, 2010
7:53 PM
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Well, I gave it a good embossing. It's a little more responsive, and I don't get winded anymore, but it's still not much louder... oh well. You get what you pay for right? I guess I'll just learn to play chromatic on this one, then buy a nice one.
I know jim suggests the Saxony, any other good ones I should put on my wish list?
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dfwdlg
123 posts
Aug 29, 2010
5:58 PM
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@ Jim Harris
That plastic tube piece is long gone. Where can replcements be had/made?
Thx.
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Jim Harris
46 posts
Aug 29, 2010
7:27 PM
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You might try contacting Hohner and see if they can send you a couple new ones. Or, if you have the one, fabricate another based on that model. Hopefully Hohner can help. Good luck.
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dfwdlg
124 posts
Aug 30, 2010
8:19 AM
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Thanks!
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