AirMojo
37 posts
Dec 08, 2010
7:16 AM
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After reading all the great things about the Lone Wolf Harp Attack Pedal, I decided that my wife should buy me one for Christmas... :)
I like that it can be used with any amp to make it sound better or enhance an already great amp (I hope!).
So I'm wondering where the HA should go in my pedal chain, which is:
Line6 G30 Wireless (sometimes)-> Boss DM2 Delay-> Holy Grail Nano Reverb-> Mico POG.
After thinking about it, maybe it depends on whether you are using an AMP, a PA, or both ?
Using it with just an amp, I was thinking about putting it at the very front before my DM2 delay pedal.
Thanks !
Ken H in OH
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MrVerylongusername
1398 posts
Dec 08, 2010
7:18 AM
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I'd put it at the end of the signal path whether it's amp or PA next
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hvyj
879 posts
Dec 08, 2010
9:33 AM
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If I had your pedals, I'd set up the chain like this:
Wireless>Harp Attack>MicroPOG>Delay>Reverb.
I might experiment putting the HA after the MP to see which order sounded best, but I certainly wouldn't put either the HA or the MP last in chain. Last in chain should be reverb right after delay. I would keep the same chain in the same order whether i was going into an amp or a PA.
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toddlgreene
2197 posts
Dec 08, 2010
9:39 AM
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Treat the HA like an amp;it should be last in the chain.
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Todd L. Greene, Codger-in-training
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MP
1087 posts
Dec 08, 2010
10:21 AM
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i hate to be last!
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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toddlgreene
2198 posts
Dec 08, 2010
10:24 AM
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haha...poor MP. Hvyj made you bat cleanup, get sloppy seconds, take out the trash, etc.
If it makes you feel better, you can get in line before my HA.
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Todd L. Greene, Codger-in-training
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hvyj
882 posts
Dec 08, 2010
10:25 AM
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It is not apparent to me why one would want to distort a signal AFTER it has been processed with delay and reverb. It will sound like a mess.
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toddlgreene
2199 posts
Dec 08, 2010
10:49 AM
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hvyj, it's no different than running your mentioned signal into a tube amp that is overdriven. That's essentially what the Harp Attack is:an amp minus the speaker. Have you tried the Harp Attack? You can't group it in with distortion pedals. I'd recommend giving one a whirl.
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Todd L. Greene, Codger-in-training
Last Edited by on Dec 08, 2010 10:52 AM
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hvyj
884 posts
Dec 08, 2010
11:29 AM
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@toddlgreene: I've never tried a Harp Attack, but I do have considerable experience with effects pedals in general.
IMHO, the flaw in your analysis is that the HA is NOT an amp since its signal flows into an amp. From what you are saying, the HA may be more like a preamp. The effects loop on amps that have an effects loop is AFTER the preamp stage and before the power amp stage of the amp and that's where most articles recommend delay and reverb effects should go in an amp that has an effects loop. So, in an amp that doesn't have an effects loop, it would seem to make sense to put delay and reverb BETWEEN an outboard preamp and the amp itself. A preamp is treated the same way as distortion pedal in determining where it should be placed in an effects chain.
There are a lot of articles on the web discussing the order in which to place effects pedals. My opinion is based on my experience using pedals, but I think it is also consistent with what most of the articles i have seen recommend.
I do use a preamp myself (CinchFX EP-Pre) on the pedal board i use with my bass amp although I don't leave it on all the time. The chain is:
Preamp>Retro-Sonic Phaser>MicroPOG>RotoSim>A/B box to select between RotoSim outputs>amp. I have an MXR Carbon Copy Delay in effects loop of the amp.
It is my experience that putting a preamp (or distortion) last in chain after other effects creates a mess if the other effects and the preamp/distortion effect are engaged at the same time. Maybe the HA is different somehow--I don't know because I've never tried one. But I can't imagine why it would be that different from other preamps.
I guess the acid test would be for AirMojo to try it in different places in the chain and make up his own mind. Generally speaking, varying the order of effects in the chain can make a dramatic difference.
Last Edited by on Dec 08, 2010 11:35 AM
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boris_plotnikov
328 posts
Dec 08, 2010
11:41 AM
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Don't look for any opinions. Try it different ways. My rig is
1. AKG Wireless
2. Rocktron Hush noise gate (antifeedback)
3. Boss HR-2 harmonist (just like yours microPOG) I like it before HarpAttack drive pedal
4. MXR Carbon Copy delay for short delay - i like putting it before HarpAttack too
5. Harp Attack
6. Phase shifter i Like it after harp Attack!
7. Long delay - i like it after Harp Attack!
8. BBE Sonic Stomp
Try putting your slapback delay before drive pedal - it gives more fatness, or after drive pedal - it gives more space. MicroPOG before HarpAttack will give you more fatness (like playing octave harmonica), after HarpAttack it'll gives you some synthy tone. Experiment. I just tried different position and I choose what I like.
And yes, octave and delay pedals sounds a bit messed before drive pedal, but gives pretty much fatness and I like it!
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Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
Last Edited by on Dec 08, 2010 11:49 AM
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MJ
232 posts
Dec 08, 2010
12:06 PM
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This is taken from the Lone Wolf Harp Attack web site.
"The Lone Wolf Harp Attack fills several needs of harp players; by providing true power tube overdrive distortion in a pedal it allows you to plug straight into a pa and get an overdriven 6V6 sound or dirty up an amp that is otherwise too clean. This pedal does not produce massive distortion but a smooth overdriven tone. Put it in your harp case and take it to jams or use it in line with other pedals to develop your own signature tone. I recommend that you install this pedal last in line with other pedals, but this is only a recommendation. The Harp Attack gives an excellent tube sound to a solid state amp and it makes a great, easy to bring along, back-up harp amp. This pedal is also becomming popular for taking on tour in Europe. "
As I read this, The Harp Attack should be used last in the chain of pedals.
Last Edited by on Dec 08, 2010 2:39 PM
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toddlgreene
2200 posts
Dec 08, 2010
12:33 PM
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Randy Landry balked and quickly corrected me when I referred to the HA as a pre-amp, and insisted it isn't to be thought of as a pre-amp. I forget his whole reasoning for this, but he was quite insistent that it wasn't to be thought of that way. I think HtownFess might be able to elaborate more on that. You're right as for trying out whatever effects you have to see for yourself-what sounds great to one might be just the opposite to another. BUT, when you follow the recommendations of the guy who made the product and it works fine that way, I don't see a reason to try it differently. I'm only ever putting a delay and perhaps a Rotovibe in front of it, so the signal is cleaner than if I were using many more effects.
But if it will make me play like Boris, it's worth a shot. :-)
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Todd L. Greene, Codger-in-training
Last Edited by on Dec 08, 2010 12:57 PM
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KingBiscuit
3 posts
Dec 08, 2010
12:39 PM
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I have the Harp Attack and LW Harp Delay. Love them both. Here is my pedal board set up:
Kinder AFB+ to Harp Attack to Harp Delay to DI box set to -20DB.
I used to put the delay first, but since the AFB+ is kind of "syncing" with the amp, I put the Harp Attack first. I've only played with this set up a handful of times, but it's really working well.
Last week at a jam, I had the best tone and volume I've ever had, going from my pedals straight to the PA. The tone was like a nasty, dirty little 5 or 10 watt amp but loud as hell with no feedback. When I first started playing, I was so loud in the monitors I about jumped out of my shoes! LOL I have never been able to hear myself that well. I actually had to ask the sound guy to turn me down in the monitors...not because of feedback...it was just too loud!
Ken...where are you in Ohio? I'm in the Columbus area.
Dan
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AirMojo
38 posts
Dec 08, 2010
12:44 PM
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I have an original Harp Commander, but don't really use it at this point with the amps that I have.
I did ask Ron Holmes a few years ago about its placement in my effects chain after I got a Samson Airline wireless.
He recommended it at the beginning after the wireless (but I only had a delay pedal and a BOSS OC-2 then).
Its Good to hear what everyone thinks !
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MP
1089 posts
Dec 08, 2010
1:12 PM
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as a rule of thumb(ask any guitarist) delays are at the end of the chain.
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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AirMojo
39 posts
Dec 08, 2010
4:12 PM
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KingBiscuit/Dan,
I'm up in northeast Ohio, Chardon, in the heart of the snow belt and getting hammered with snow the past 3 days.
Love all the responses, so I'm looking forward to trying the different configurations.
I guess I sort of just added things to the chain as I acquired them and in that order (DM2, then Holy Grail Nano Reverb, and recently the Micro Pog (having fun with this!) and sounds good to me, but I'm not a Pro, and do this mainly for my own amusement, but when I lose my job (after 35+ years), I may want to go out and have some fun !
Ken H in OH
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htownfess
220 posts
Dec 08, 2010
8:33 PM
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As I understand it, the Harp Attack circuit is configured more like the output stage of a single-ended amp than a preamp stage. I think typical tube pedals try to put a different input stage in front of the main amp and the HA avoids the pitfalls of running a harp mic into that. An old-school high-impedance harp mic would usually be run into the HA first to take advantage of the HA's mic buffering qualities, but if you're using a wireless rig, the wireless is what the mic "sees." So I'd follow Boris and do as much experimenting as you can. The Harp Attack has a harmonically rich output due to the SE amp thang, so putting other pedals after it can sound very good.
Ken, it sounds like you're starting to have enough in the chain that trying a Sonic Stomp at the tail end might be worthwhile--borrow one or watch craigslist/eBay. I've never tried one, but I can see how achieving even a little more clarity/fidelity in what enters the final amp would pay off.
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