@hvyi – Yep. I certainly count my blessings too in that regard. It's the only way to fly. ---------- http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#!/pages/Bourbon-Bleach/161722307208585
Many thanks to Adam for mentioning me as a pro who teaches/performs.
I have earned a full time living performing twice in my life.
Once, I was hired to play a Broadway show. I was living in Austin, TX and they were practice running the show in Houston so they were looking for local players to save them money. I was not in the musician's union because Texas is a right to work state and the union accomplishes very little because of it. How did they find me? I have had 5 friends tell me they were the ones who referred the show to me. Perhaps just one person referred them, but the point is somehow they got my phone number.
My point? I networked like crazy, hitting around 3 to 5 clubs every night if I did not have a gig for the first 4 years I lived in Austin before the show hired me.
When they hired me, they asked if I could read music. I lied and said yes. They put some music in front of me and I fumbled through. They asked again. I lied again. When I got the gig I took 2 reading lessons and practiced 8 hours a day on reading. By the time the gig started, 3 weeks later, I was the worst reader in the room, but I kept the gig. My point? Practice your behind off , even on concepts you are not interested in.
When they hired me, I was advised there was no way I was going to be the Broadway player, I was strictly doing Houston. I quit my job, got rid of my apartment, and put everything in storage as well as bought $300 worth of harmonica equipment to be prepared for whatever they wanted me to do. My point? Let the universe know you are serious, pave the way for success by getting rid of what stands in your way.
At the party on opening night, I took 1 minute with all the decision makers, made sure they were in a good mood, and let them know I would like to do New York. My point? Schmooze with the decision makers, but pick your time and method wisely.
Then, the basics, keep your mouth shut, show up on time, do your job well.
I made around $80,000 for around 6 months of working two to fours hours a day.
When I was i my early thirties, I was a harp player for two bands, one an acoustic duo and one a rock band. I did not sing at all nor did I play anything but harp. However, although the rock band was under the lead singer's name, I was the booking agent and essentially the manager of both bands. We each put out a CD which earned some extra money, but mostly it was performance. I played around 8 times a week all around Texas, but mostly in Austin. I would wake up and get on the phone calling club after club and would not stop until I had booked 2 gigs. I did that pretty much every weekday. Sometimes it took 15 minutes, sometimes 6 hours, but I would not stop calling until 2 gigs were booked. Then practices, personal practice and gigs. Is that making it only as a harp player? Probably I really made it as a booking agent.
Now I estimate I made around $2000 a month and lived in a one bedroom. Sometimes I had health insurance, sometimes not, but I always had to buy it privately. I always had 3 meals a day, there were multiple girlfriends. I am now in debt, probably due to that time period.
I would not want to live like that at 41 years old. With my wife, child and mortgage I do not see how I could.
Currently I teach around 25 private lessons a week, am committed to four bands, gig around 3 times a week, do session work, sell a book and CD. My wife has a job and we are insured through her job. I make somewhere inbetween those two other salaries and I appreciate your business, thank you very much.
As many of your know, I am a pretty neurotic guy who worries way too much. However, of all the choices in my life, my career choice is one of the ones with the least amount of regret. I may be broke at the end of every month and still in debt, but the bills always seem to get paid on time and I love what I do, especially teaching which to me is far more fulfilling than gigging.
Occasional regrets: I fantasize about winning the lottery and doing a 2 month tour with one of my bands. I think that is about all I want from that lifestyle.
I also regret having not worked harder to learn how to sing and become a better harp player because I had the fantasy that I would be one of the best frontman players ever. It is still possible I suppose, I am not dead yet, however, the drive I had as a kid is gone. I like the way I play, I am able to express what is going on inside of me. I still practice around 2 hours a day on a good day, but it is for the fun of learning and not to impress anyone.
I believe do not listen to the naysayers. If you want to make a living playing harp, you can do it. Be prepared to work very hard.
"Being a pro simply means you get paid for what you do. If you get paid, you are Not an amatuer."
I can not disagree more with this statement. I've been semi-pro or full time pro for decades. In that time I've had the displeasure to come into contact and/or work with quite a few musicians who always get paid but frequently show up late, don't show up at all, are not prepared in the least - thinking their brilliance is enough, are drunk and/or drugged out of their skulls, are rude to servers and other venue staff,and have egos as big as the great outdoors with an even greater sense of entitlement. I don't give a damn how much they get paid, they are not "professional" even by Webster's definition of the word. Hell, they'd even give a bad name to amateurs.
I say again, it's attitude not pay. ---------- LSC
You're far too generous to say that I mentored you; heck, your long and incredibly frank and useful post above makes it clear that you've got a lot to teach all of us about what it means to hustle a life out of what you care passionately about. I hope that ALL the younger musicians who frequent this forum and harbor any ambition of "making it" as harp-playing professionals will print out your post and commit it to heart. The part about booking two gigs a day, however long it took, is breathtaking. Part of making it is being, in a sense, shameless: being willing to take rejection in the service of long-term success. A certain amount of nerve--as in, "You've got a lot of nerve, buddy"--is probably a prereq for success. I remember walking the streets of upper Manhattan putting up posters in 1985, advertising my services a as a harmonica teacher. What the hell did I know then? But I was actively pursuing my own studies and self-improvement, and I wanted to share that passion and my specific discoveries. And yes, I was destined to become a guy who, much later, had a fair bit of knowledge to share as a teacher. But back then, I was just young, hungry, and filled with big dreams.
Your story about claiming that you sight-read resonates with me. Everybody who ever ended up making it as a pro had some threshold-period when they were faking it to a greater or lesser extent. Every professor began as a terrified first-timer in the classroom.
Last Edited by on Sep 04, 2011 5:29 PM
It's hard to be a GOOD half time musician. I finished sociology on University of Lublin and I had a few offers to stay there, but I decided that I want to be full time musician. On the start it was hard to find right band, gigs and good gear. Now I play 120 gigs and about 30 workshops each year, so it's not bad :o) I'm really happy guy! I think if you love something - you will be very good, If you will be very good, you will have a lot of jobs, If you will have a lot of jobs you will decide about the most interesting projects and/or the most lucrative gigs. So in my opinion the key is love music and hard work :o) I wish you the same happiness!!!
This year I give up my PhD in biology and decide to become alltime musician. It's very tough job. But now only playing gigs, teaching students and some customizing job I can make very poor living with some occasional more money, hope it will be better. I have enough money to pay bills, buy gas and preparing food at home. My car is 23 years old (i'm 27) and I have no idea where to get money to get new one. Thanks seydel for some free harmonicas. ---------- Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
Not being a pro nor having any aspirations to become a pro, my 2 cents here are from the perspective of a rabid music fan who follows and comments on the life histories of many indie bands, and from the perspective a guy who is in the main group of fans that support these bands. I've got my ears open: I read many many new music blogs, listen to new music shows on internet radio, search the internet for new bands, and watch concert footage on YouTube. I'd say that I listen to 5-10 new bands a week. I have a wide group of people who I discuss the merits of these bands with, and I sometimes contribute to a blog or two. In other words, I know what's out there, I know what I want to listen to, and I like to think I have a reasonably good idea about what the kids want to hear too. With that background in mind, here's what I consider to be the simple truth about playing harmonica: You aren't going to make it big by playing traditional Blues.
It just ain't gonna happen. That ship sailed a long time ago. The kids aren't into it anymore, just us old guys, and there aren't even enough of us to keep more than a few players "in business". Now, before anyone gets all upset, I'm NOT saying you have to abandon the Blues. That's crazy talk (although it IS another way you might make it playing harp). What I'm saying is that you aren't going to make it by playing cover versions of Juke and Help Me or any other "Blues Harp Standard". You need to be making original songs that reframe the blues in a fully modern context. This is exactly what insanely popular bands like The White Stripes and The Black Keys have been doing, and it works. It works well. There are other bands coming up in that vein, and they feature harmonica.
Case in point: The Stone Foxes. They are a relatively young band out of San Francisco, who have been making a name for themselves by opening for bands like the Black Keys. Here's a video of them from a recent concert:
You can see that the guy only has some rudimentary blues harp skills. In fact, I'd wager that most of the members here could easily outplay him if it came down to it. That's not the point. The point is that they are playing to sold out shows in very large venues, and are opening for some of the most popular bands around. How did they do it? I am VERY sure that they had to deal with all the "music biz" things that many of the pros have mentioned in this thread, and I want to make sure to reiterate all those things. They are VERY valid.
But, to my eyes, the thing that has been missing from all the things posted above, and the thing that I think a band like The Stone Foxes illustrate is this: THEY PLAY MUSIC THAT THE HIPSTERS LIKE. If you don't get onto the college radio charts,then you aren't going to make it as an indie band, which, let's face it, is what you are trying to do if you want to play the blues. Now, I'm not saying you have to sell your soul and aim for a top 40 sound. That's, in fact, the opposite of what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that you have to listen wide, and listen CURRENTLY. You have to put your finger on the pulse of what the kids are listening to, and you have to figure out how to make YOUR music fit into that. Blues definitely has a place there -- very much so! BUT, and this is a very big but, it's NOT the same Blues that was being played in the "golden age". It's changed. This Blues, the modern Blues, is exemplified by bands like the Black Keys, the Stone Foxes, Oh My Goodness, The Soledad Brothers, The White Stripes, The Dead Weather, Cold War Kids, The Heavy, Fleet Foxes, The Black Diamond Heavies, Band of Horses, The Heartless Bastards, The National, and more. If you are trying to make it big in a modern Blues style, you have to be listening to the sounds that bands like these are making. You can pick any number of formats to make this sound yourself: from an accoustic duo up through a fully amped 5 piece. But you gotta be making that sound, and you gotta be playing your own material.
Anyway, that's MY perspective. I'll just end with one more opinion. The guy that's out there doing this with harp right now is Brandon Bailey. If he keeps up what he's doing, and he follows the music biz advice from the pros, he's going to make it with that sound. Other folks out there that I'd say are hitting that sound are J-Sin with his stuff from the Ataturk Band and Borris with his very cool hip-hop stuff from Vinebago. These guys are finding some VERY cool sounds, and if they get it into the right market (College radio!), IMO they stand a really good chance of getting picked up. ---------- == I S A A C ==
Actually there's more than bunch of problems. It's not easy to determine who is real PRO. I know some great clever educated PRO musicians who have a day job, just to play music only to express theirselves once a week or rarely. They can read music, play any style, play any tune without rehearsal, practice every day after job. But they don't want to entertain drunked people, they want to play some "real music", "real art". A they pros? Definitely yes, but they don't have money from music.
From the other side I know bunch of musicians who are completely far from being perfect, hardly play one style, no real art, no creativity, no real technique, just playing some covers (not always with good quality) to make drunken people happy and to make them dance. But music is their only job, are they PROs? Actually yes, as their income is only from music.
I don't know about different countries, but in russia the simplier music the more money you get. Russian pop music, russian crime songs and some russian rock-n-roll covers can bring much more money, than some elite jazz or blues or classical music.
I think each have to find the way of getting money which is more natural for him. I'd prefer to have less money, but not to play russian crime songs (but I'm not against playing some rock-n-roll covers, while I'm not a fan of this style). Anyway my main goal is to express myself the best way and to get maximum possible money for MY WAY OF PLAYING MUSIC. If it will not be enough I can play something different (rock-n-roll or good pop music), or teach, or customize or even give some biology lessons (I can do it, but I don't really like it). ---------- Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
Last Edited by on Sep 05, 2011 12:02 PM
My experience (as a keyboardist, not a harmonicist) back in the 1980s was that music is a great career as long as you're single, childless, and your parents aren't charging you too much rent. Once I moved out & got married and had a kid (at age 25), however, I found that the stress--never having enough money, being a half-assed parent & husband because most of my time & money went to music, being a half-assed musician because I was no longer giving it 100%, etc.--was sucking all the joy out of playing. It was a great stress-reliever to make that initially-painful decision to put music to the side, and get a steady office job that paid enough to support my family and gave me every evening—and even weekends!—free.
If I had a gift like Hendrix or Little Walter or Ray Charles (etc.), it probably would have been much more difficult, or even impossible, to walk away from playing music professionally . . . so I guess I should feel lucky that I don't have that kind of talent!
@isaacullah: Man! Extremely interesting and provocative post. I know and like the Black Keys and I've heard of the White Stripes, but I don't know any of the other bands. I did give a listen to that Stone Foxes video, though, and I'm struck by one thing: the breakdown portion of the video, where the drummer is blowing harp and pounding on his kickdrum, sounds exactly like the sort of thing I'm doing--except of course I'm a better harp player and a worse drummer. But the gestalt is identical: it's a harp-and-kickdrum-driven breakdown. So maybe there's hope for me with The Youth.
I'm sure you're right to point out that we're living in a changed musical world, and that the blues need to find a place in that changed world. I'm not sure you're entirely right about what that says about either the possibility of making a living as a blues performer or what it means to be a pro. It's worth remembering that by 1975, say, in the aftermath of the Butterfield/Cream/Joplin/Hendrix driven blues-rock revolution, "traditional" blues were pretty much considered to be dead. Everybody had written the obituary. Disco had destroyed things--pop music, jazz, and blues. The smart money in 1975 said that...well, that guys like Piazza, Estrin, Kim Wilson, etc., should just shoot themselves now if they had any dream of making a living as a blues musician.
But of course the smart money was wrong, and in the aftermath of a series of developments--including Johnny Winter's recordings of Muddy on the Blue Sky label, the cult/pop success of the J. Geils Band and the T-Birds, THE BLUES BROTHERS act (on SNL) and movie, all supercharged with a huge bang after 1982 by Stevie Ray Vaughan and after 1985 by the Cray/Collins/Copeland SHOWDOWN album--the blues, real blues, turned out to have another life to live.
Again: the smart money was NOT predicting any of this.
I'd call you the smart money right now. Then again, the Blues Foundation can point to all sorts of positive indicators (how full the blues cruises are and how many competitors come to the IBC's mostly), even though clubs are closing and blues records per se are a very hard sell. But still, I'll grant you your basic prophet's insight: blues per se, right now, doesn't have a whole lot of traction as a young people's music.
Still, I think that that may change. I can't say precisely what will change it. Nobody can. But times change, and musical tastes reformulate themselves. Young people in times of great social strain and change have a habit not just of creating new musics, but of looking around for fresh inspiration. The blues have historically proven their ability, from the 1920s until now, to be that root, that endlessly renewable source code.
I'm happy to hear that you think Brandon has what it takes! I agree. Let's hope that his own talents and more national press helps find him the audience he deserves.
Last Edited by on Sep 05, 2011 5:28 PM
Re: isacullah's post What I found very interesting is the amount of ignorance of fellow young adults to the blues. I have had people tell me they listened to "anything but the blues". Yet when I played The Animals, Canned Heat, some good Chicago or country blues - they loved it! The average blues 'connoisseur' around my age listens to very old school blues, the likes of Eric Clapton and Stevie Ray... Maybe some BB King. Don't even think of bringing up Little Walter, T-Bone Walker. The Black Keys are quite popular, I know many people who listen to them.
What surprises me is that the musical ideas in good blues are much more sophisticated and interesting than most (not all) of what is popular with young people today, and the playing is as good or better.
I was at a party last year with a dozen people. They were playing current pop music. Some people were dancing, with little enthusiasm. Sick of listening to this music, I take out my harp and someone turns off the music. I played an error-containing alcohol-confused version of Big Walter's Boogie and brought down the house, people were dancing!
I don't really get it. Is it uncool to like 50 year old music? Is it uncool to like music made by an old fart master-of-his-craft? What exactly do these popular bands display which is so in demand? Whatever it is, it sure makes it difficult to go pro for any of those really good blues harp players.
Last Edited by on Sep 05, 2011 6:08 PM
@kudzurunner: I'm glad you had a chance to read my post - I was hoping you would! I've thought about this subject quite a bit, actually, and have had quite a few long winded conversations with my fellow music-loving friends. I want to clarify one thing, however, that I see I didn't make clear in my original post. I never meant to say that real old-school blues is dead. I think that the wellspring that is Delta Blues, Hill Country Blues, Piedmont Blues, etc. still exists as a very viable source of new and interesting and potentially very popular music. I think that's from where all those bands I named pulled forth their main inspirations. You make a really good point about J. Geils, Stevie Ray Vaughn, etc., but I'd argue that their main sources of inspiration were the transmuted blues of the city (a.k.a. "Chicago" Blues), and NOT the Blues of the countryside that those city Blues musicians developed out of. I think THAT'S the main difference. I just don't see a place for that CITY BLUES sound in modern popularist indie alternative music, but that seems to be what the majority of Blues harpists want to be playing. I see that as the fodder for the endless Blues jam nights that occur all around the country. Those are great fun for those playing, and a good one might fill a bar up on a Saturday night, but it just ain't gonna fill up concert venues.
Now, if someone was to go back to the Blues of the countryside. Hell, even just early Muddy Waters stuff. THAT sound has a place in the musical milieu of today's college radio. It's all the more interesting because that's the same sound that inspired the Led Zeppelin/Cream/Hendrix "blues-driven rock" revolution you talked about. The main difference I see with the new "blues-rock" revolution that is occurring now, is that the bands are actually staying a lot closer to those country blues roots than did the bands of the late 60's early 70's. What they are doing is making original songs with Delta or Hillcountry aesthetics, but they AREN'T sticking to the traditional Blues song forms. That is, they don't stick to 12 bars, I IV V progressions, or even to AAB lyrical formats. They marry the Blues with a pop verse/chorus formats and with different chord structures and bridges and all that. And the use of effects too. Their lyrical content is very Blues oriented, but not necessarily in a known Blues format. Sometimes there is call-and-response and repetition, sometimes not. It's really interesting.
Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent here, but I just wanted to try to clarify that point. And yes, I ought to have mentioned your one man band stuff. You've got several songs on there that get really close to what I'm talking about. Specifically, I'm thinking Kick and Stomp, Shaun's Song, and Mr.Cantrell. Your sound on those songs is the right sound to be appealing to the kids, but to REALLY appeal to the kids, they'd need lyrics. Something I've come to realize is that the kids NEED lyrics in their songs, but they don't want them in a way that they've heard before. They want something original, something Blues-oriented that isn't typically "Blues stuff". If you listen to the Black Keys, listen to the way they construct and phrase their lyrics. I think that rephrasing of Blues themes in their lyrics is part of the reason why they are so very very popular amongst the college crowd right now. They're gutsy, but also cerebral. Literal, but also highly metaphorical. Familiar, but also totally new sounding. Okay, that was another tangent, so I'll end it for now. I've got to go make some dinner anyway! :)
Great stuff from a different perspective Isaac - thank you.
Hearing from Boris, Cristal (thanks for opening your soul about your journey) and Bart about their very current carreer ambitions, paths and struggles was also very engaging. You are all amazing players and I hope you all find a way to continue making great music with the harmonica - and a decent living too.
Boris's questioning of 'what is a real PRO' is worth pondering. Being a crappy sight reader (for sax -zilch on harp) and weak on theory myself, I always considered a 'pro' as someone who seriously knows his craft in these regards. Clearly, plenty who have made it in the rock and pop world do not fit this definition - but at the least - they do 'what they do' - thier act, very well, and have found a way to build an audience and market what they are putting out.
Michael Rubin's perspective and his tales of making it to Broadway was an excelent contribution.
I also second Randy Singer's 'musician's handbook' linked above by Boris. it's a must read on this subject. It's a free download and very thorough.
Now if I could only figure out what I want to do with music - I could re-start my own journey in that direction. ----------
Last Edited by on Sep 06, 2011 12:21 AM
Have to agree with Isaacullah's points about making new exciting blues for this generation. The bands he names easily proves his point. This is part of what made JR&TNB's sound so exciting to me. I'd really like to get good enough to get into a modern sounding blues band as well :) .
Lots of good thoughts and sharing on this thread, even if it is a bit disheartening.
----------
~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Steven Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
there are a thousand harp players out there and if you get in a top band or your a fantastic player or write great songs and can sing like RC you`ll just play for the joy of lt...
It will be as hard as it will be. What frustrates one person is no sweat to another. I never did follow most of what has been posted here. I have turned down many offers including playing on the soundtrack for the movie The Color of Money. These opportunities would not allow me to do Spontobeat. They were rehearsed, planned out projects. The color of money would have paid me more money for 2 weeks of work than my entire yearly income playing clubs but I would not be able to be myself. How can a musician be an artist if he can't be himself? That is one I will never have an answer for. I still was able to live pretty much off my music for 20 years. My wife of 31 years and I conciously decided on no children, no home purchase, and basically lived out of our suitcase for those years. I can't relate to compromising with my music. To play stuff that isn't inspiring, teaching people for money knowing the student will never really be that good, planning sets and albums around what I think people will like,and all that "making it" stuff makes a day job a much more interesting gig for me. I find I have much more creativity as a special education teacher than I would have doing music in the traditional way. For me art comes out on its own terms. To try and control it kills it. I live in my own musical universe making up everything as I go along and figured out years ago that I have no competition. That is a very freeing thing. I may die unknown, famous, or anything inbetween, but I will keep doing my music my way all the way.
If you are inspired to play for a living, walk blindly with it. It will always guide you. There are thousands of cookie cut out musicians out there and like being the fastest gun in the west, there will always be a "faster one" than you. Live life big and follow your dreams. There is no generic map for success. We each have our own if we let it unfold naturally. Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
This is a very good and sensitive subject. I am a fulltime musician, playing gigs in different genres - mainly jazz and folkmusic. Sometimes pop, blues, classical music as well.
I gig mostly on the chromatic and diatonic harmonica. Maybe 75 % chromatic and 25 % diatonic. I also play guitar, accordion and jaw harp on some gigs. I perform at many sorts of venues, everything from concert halls, clubs, meetings, outdoors, schools, festivals, tv & radio, private events and major stages. Mostly in Sweden but latest year, a lot around in Europe as well. In two weeks I will go to South-Korea for a tour.
I teach harmonica privately, when someone wants. I also do regular studio-sessions that is paid ,, and sometimes its not paid at all, but its good to do it.
You can find lots of info on the internet of how make it as a fulltime player, the book Randy Singer did is good, here is a link to a good interview with Howard Levy
Its nice to share experience like this, one can learn a lot.
I am working very hard everyday to improve my musicianship and craftsmanship on my instrument, I love MUSIC and right now in my life, its working good to live from it.
I agree with so much of what is being said here. Speaking from my own experience as a violinist, it is incredibly difficult to have a fulltime professional career as a musician. Repeat, it is "incredibly" difficult. Almost all musicians either have a day job or they must supplement what gigs they are able to get with things like teaching, otherwise they would all be starving. In the music business, talent is only one part of it and sometimes a "very small" part of it. There are so many other things like having an "in" with friends and connections. A little bit of luck helps. Having money helps. Audiences not only hear you play, but they are looking at you, and an attractive appearance is a big plus. You must be personable and other musicians must enjoy working with you, and as Aussiesucker says, you have to have the "x" factor. You have to be a top notch player, excellent sight reader and prepared to give a fantastic performance with little or no rehearsal. And you should be extremely versatile and willing to play all different styles of music because having longevity in music requires you to play what the audiences want to hear and not necessarily what you want to play all the time. To repeat again, it is incredibly difficult to make a fulltime living as a pro musician. My advice to you SonnyD is to continue to practice very hard and love and enjoy it We all do music because we have a great love for it. It gives us happiness and makes living worthwhile. You might want to seek out playing opportunities at open mics and/or piano bars. Although they do not pay, they give you fantastic exposure, people can see you perform live, and you can network and make wonderful connections and friends who may be able to help, plus playing in front of live audiences is totally different from just practicing at home, and it must be continually honed so that you keep in shape with your instrument, Also, as some people have mentioned, facebook is an excellent for networking/promoting yourself.
I haven't read all of the above, but if I was 30 or 40 years younger, I would do the following. 1) Practice like crazy. 2) Practice so that you can play in lots of different music situations/styles. 3) Get known locally as a harmonica player. Put yourself about, busk, do open mics. 4) Be prepared to teach the harmonica ( if you follow step 3 you should be able to build up a group of students). 5) Think outside the box. A friend of mine - a guitarist - makes good money playing at weddings.
