Patrick Barker
81 posts
Jul 05, 2008
2:54 PM
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I know that the marine band has one of the best tones of any harmonica. I was wondering if anyone knows what other harmonicas have the good tone with better other quality.
Last Edited by on Jul 06, 2008 11:26 AM
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eharp
55 posts
Jul 05, 2008
7:44 PM
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how do you know this?
i have seen this argued and debated and discussed for years on several forums. i never saw the mb declared the official winner in that category.
i think you will see the subjectivity of your statement within a couple days of response posts. ask the question at the bushman forum and i would bet you get the same diversity of answers though you may get a slight bump in bushman votes.
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oldwailer
106 posts
Jul 05, 2008
10:00 PM
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There are too many good choices these days and this subject has to be continually batted around by harpists everywhere. Maybe its just what we do when our chops are too tired to practice.
My opinion is that the harpist has more to do with the tone of a harp than the harp. I think Little Walter would have blown our minds with a set of Johnsons off ebay.
The bottom line here is that you will never know the true value of a brand of harp to you unless you try one--you just might be one of those wierdos who decide that the Suzuki is the best harp! LOL!!!!
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Patrick Barker
82 posts
Jul 06, 2008
11:25 AM
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eharp, you're right, I probably shouldn't put "undisputedly" (I guess I'll edit that) but it is somewhat commonly thought of as the standard harp with one of the best tones. I am totally open to suggestions if anyone else likes another harp's tone better, since I would like to try some other harps if they have good tone and are more responsive (hopefully in the range from about $20-40).
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eharp
58 posts
Jul 06, 2008
12:03 PM
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i have enjoyed my delta frosts. i like the tone and the damn things seem indestructible compared to other harps i have played.
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harpmonkey
68 posts
Jul 06, 2008
10:21 PM
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The best harp has your music coming out of it.
Heart and soul.
Harps are like woman, we all have our preferences and we all "make the best music with the one we love".
And don't try to love on my woman, or my harp...
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T. Hutch
3 posts
Jul 06, 2008
10:35 PM
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Thanks harpmonkey! That was true poetry with a blu 3rd on the down. I once had a 5 buck harp that I thought was the gratest and my first wife was only 3 ft tall-she did`nt win many races but she ran in every one!
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Jeff
128 posts
Jul 07, 2008
8:18 AM
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Patrick, the MB gets it's very unique sound primarily from three key things. And it's mainly these three things that other companies don't possess:
1. It has long-slot reeds. These give a deeper, darker and richer tone. Short-slot reeds tend to be bright and slightly more 'buzzy'.
2. It has side vents in the coverplates. This gives the sound more resonance and that 'in-your-face crunchiness.
3. It's tuned very closely to just-intonation. So the chords are very lush and powerful.
Aside from Seydel and Hering, no other companies are incorporating those elements in a harp. So that's why it's very difficult to find a harp that sounds like a Marine Band.
I would go with either a custom Marine Band/SP20, MB Deluxe or an 1847 tuned to JI if you want to stick with that characteristic tone. Suzuki is soon releasing a long-slot reed harp that will sound close. And Brad Harrison is releasing a very similar harp also called the B-Radical.
Last Edited by on Jul 07, 2008 9:17 AM
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eharp
60 posts
Jul 07, 2008
1:51 PM
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if 2draw's wife says mb is the best, then that is good enough for me! lol
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oldwailer
110 posts
Jul 07, 2008
8:17 PM
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Yeah, Harpmonkey--harps & women--flat on one side--don't roll off the desk--got it!! ;)
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SUNDOG
24 posts
Jul 15, 2008
10:21 AM
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SUZUKI best played verticaly ?????
Last Edited by on Jul 16, 2008 10:14 AM
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Preston
153 posts
Feb 24, 2009
9:49 AM
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Anybody know of any updates on the B-Radical from Brad Harrison that Jeff was talking about? There are no updates on Brad Harrison's website, and this thread is over 8 months old.
When I get enough cash for a high end harp I will most likely buy one from Buddha, but I heard the B-Radical was going to be different from top to bottom, and not just a customized version of ones already available. Could be cool.
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Andrew
136 posts
Feb 24, 2009
12:10 PM
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Harpmonkey says "Harps are like woman, we all have our preferences and we all "make the best music with the one we love"
Do you lip-purse or tongue-block?
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bluzlvr
125 posts
Feb 24, 2009
2:17 PM
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I know I posted this in another forum, but I'm still of the opinion that if you're playing through an amp with a pedal board full of effects, (like Jason Ricci), it don't matter what kind of harp you're using.
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harmonicanick
155 posts
Feb 24, 2009
2:53 PM
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IMHB Golden melodies have the best tone..but that's because I play 'em so I am biased!!
I think tone depends on the player as well.
let me explain, there is a guy who comes to our jam sessions every week who, dosent play fast, but as soon as he hits a draw or whatever it sounds so good.
He plays all sorts of makes so how do we explain that?
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snakes
114 posts
Feb 24, 2009
3:36 PM
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Well I'm a fairly new player having just played a little over a year. I have been blessed with a wife who'll allow me to indulge in harp purchases as long as I spend as much on the house. Thus I have been able to buy more harmonicas than my skill set would dictate, but it has been a fun way to learn more. I have several keys of the following:
MB
SP20
LO
Suzuki Bluesmaster
Suzuki Promaster
and I have one key of the following:
Big River
Pro Harp
Goldem Melody
Blues Harp
1896 MB
Flying Eagle (more of a toy - was a gift)
Here is my take from my experience. If you like the Little Walter/Big Walter tone the best harp in first position is the Marine Band. It just seems to have the sound - some call it crunchy.... BUT, once I want to play in anything above first position I end up losing tonal quality on bends especially depending on the harp (MB included) due to my placement on my learning curve and the ability to deal with harps that are more leaky or have thicker profiles (which tend to inhibit my embrouchure). These other positions are when I gravitate to the harps that are easier for me to play such as the Suzukis. I'll admit that as I develop better skills I find it a bit easier to pull off better sounding bends on some of the brands I have difficulty with, but the tone can still tend to lack or I may have to accommodate by drawing much more air through the draw bend to achieve a good tone which makes things a bit tougher. So like everything in life I suppose tone is subjective to many things including your skill level, the type of blues music you are playing, or even the harp.
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Preston
157 posts
Feb 26, 2009
5:37 AM
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Alright, I know what I'm about to say will be skating on thin ice, and I DON'T want to start another plastic vs wood argument. It's like politics and religion.
BUT, the last two days I have been trying to work on Buddha's back pressure tip, so I have really been tuned into the sound coming out of the harp. All I have been doing is practicing the scale and just trying to plug into the tone I want to achieve and I've noticed something:
I have a Bb Bushman Delta Frost, and it is the only harp currently in my rotation that has a plastic comb. In my own opinion (nobody start shooting) the Bb has a "metalic" sound the higher you get. I start noticing it on 4 draw and up. And it is usually at the end of note sounding as it is decaying away. I don't notice this on my wood comb A or C. (I don't own a wood comb Bb to really compare apples to apples)
Anyway, just an observation on tone. However, I am fully aware that a Golden Melody is a favorite among many great harp players, and it obviously has a plastic comb.
More things to make you go hmmm....
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Zhin
126 posts
Feb 26, 2009
7:37 AM
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Here's my opinion.. And I did these comparisons with C key harps.
Hohner Blues Harp MS (wooden combed)
Hohner Pro Harp MS (plastic combed)
Guess what. The Blues Harp is brighter sounding. The Pro one is much darker.
And if you ever compared a Blues Harp MS with a Marine Band you'll hear that the Marine Band sounds brighter.
If you compare a Marine Band (wood comb) and Special 20... The Special 20 (plastic comb) sounds darker/warmer.
This whole misconception about how wood is warmer and plastic is brighter.... it's all in your head. Seriously. It's the thought that wood is organic so it must be warmer that screws most of you guys over who assume immediately that wooden combs are going to make your harps sound darker. Maybe this assumption can be applied to an acoustic guitar but seriously, not a harp.
It seems like all the wooden ones sound brighter in the hohner line if you really want to judge them based on their combs.. and I think that's the wrong way to go about it.
So what's my point? It's not just the frikkin comb that affects the tone and often it has very little to do with the tonal characteristics of the harps.
It's mainly the reeds and the cover plates that make the biggest difference.
For example the side vents on the marine band is the reason why they sound more brighter and crunchier. It's kinda like when you'r playing cupped through a mic and you uncup it. There's a difference in tone right? You think that side vent is just for show?
This whole instrument thing is about music and sounds anyways... you want to DEPEND on your ears more often.. especially when picking your harp of choice... how are VISUAL CUE's more relevant than auditory ones?
You think just because it's made of wood it's warmer? I know, it's kinda almost Matrix like... but seriously, free your minds from these assumptions. You simply just cannot judge a harp based on what it's comb is made of (unless you want to talk about maintenance and swelling..)
If I'm wrong, please, correct me mercilessly. I'd appreciate it.
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MrVerylongusername
164 posts
Feb 26, 2009
8:14 AM
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What exactly is this mysterious commodity we call tone?
In this context we are talking about a sound made by a player and an instrument, but you can't really break it down any further. Good tone vs. bad tone? well OK I think there are certain generally agreed elements, but surely it really boils down to personal preference. We don't define 'tone' in terms of anything standardised or measurable - no talk of percentages, frequencies, audio-spectrums or harmonics; instead we rely on less objective language like good, bad, warm, thin, fat, airy, hard, bright and yes I know what I mean, and another harp player would probably share a great deal of common ground... try explaining tone to a non-musician.
Are all our ears the same?
Are all our personal preferences the same?
Does the person playing hear the same as the person listening?
No in every case.
We are humans. Very often our hearts rule our heads. We have our rituals and superstitions ('hey I'm wearing my lucky shirt - I'm bound to score tonight!') They are usually based on non-scientific inferences ('Last time I wore this shirt I scored with this really hot girl!' - ignoring of course the umpteen other times I wore it and went home alone). Our experiences shape us and make us unique individuals. It would be a sad world if everyone liked the same things.
@Preston
When you say the Delta Frost sounds metallic that cannot be disputed. Noone else hears the world through your ears.
Now I'm not shooting! Honestly I'm not! (as you'll see...)
You stop short of making an absolute statement, but you lead us far enough down your path of reasoning for us to make the required jump. Yup! must be the plastic comb. You'd already nailed your colours pretty firmly to the mast though by saying it's your only plastic combed harp. It seems to me then there is an emotional element to your conclusion. Your heart (your personal preference) is, to a degree, ruling your head (the conclusion you draw)
I'm not making a value judgement on what as you rightly state is a personal opinion. Really all I am taking issue with is your suggestion that if you had a Bb with a wood comb, a comparison would give you a definitive answer. What about other possible variables?
Off the top of my head and most likey not an exhaustive list:
Rivets vs. spot welding
Side-vents on covers
Alloy compostion of reeds & reedplates
Thickness of reeds & reedplates
Reed/slot length and width
Cover plate design
Cover plate material
Resonant frequencies from the harp
Resonant frequencies externally
Tuning standard
The only scientifically valid way to make the comparison would be to use the same harp but with a different comb material. You'd need to remove the human element and have some kind of artificial way to blow the reed. Since human ears are too individual you'd have to use spectrographic analysis instead. You'd probably need to go as far as to measure the torque on the bolts as you reassemble the harp with different combs.
By now you're probably thinking 'what's the point of doing all that? I know what I like'. I couldn't agree more! (see I wasn't shooting!)
The whole matter is just too subjective.
Our experiences form our opinions. Whether they are based on science, experience, superstition, 'accepted truth' or the flip of a coin - it makes little difference. Once that opinion is forged it is hard to change and it starts to influence the other things we believe. There really is no point in a debate about comb materials again; it doesn't really matter.
Just play the harp you like the sound of best.
Last Edited by on Feb 26, 2009 8:18 AM
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Preston
159 posts
Feb 26, 2009
9:22 AM
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Your absolutely right, there is no point in debate. I really didn't mean to get everybody started again, I was just excited my ears were getting good enough to hear subtleties. I guess I was projecting the wood comb/plastic comb vibe when my intention was Delta Frost VS Blues Harp. After reading what I posted I failed miserably.
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Bluzdude46
29 posts
Feb 26, 2009
9:34 AM
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I've used them all and I still believe tone comes from the player. I'm slowly changing out all my harps to SP20's because I can set them up easier and that I believe lets me play them better, if it does or doesn't, I still feel better playing them so I'm sure that helps. Only real difference I noticed between Seydel 1847 wood or silver is that they are not as loud as SP20's. Tone is still my own.
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Tuckster
106 posts
Feb 26, 2009
9:41 AM
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I think there are subtle differences in the sounds of different comb materials. This is completely swamped by an individual player's tone. I don't think beginner to intermediate players need to agonize over it. Whatever rings your bell. I lean toward plastic combs because I feel they are more stable under various weather conditions of humidity and temperature.I never liked Marine Bands because of the comb swelling. They sound great and do have a nice crunch. For me it's come down to dependability.
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harmonicanick
159 posts
Feb 26, 2009
10:28 AM
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Enjoyed your post on this thread MrV:-)
You demonstrate the flexibility of our language admirably.
Please see this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFD01r6ersw
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Zhin
127 posts
Feb 26, 2009
5:02 PM
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Mr.V., thank you for that. You elaborated it perfectly.
Have any of you actually recorded yourselves trying out different harps to hear what you really sound like?
That's how I initially discovered the differences in tone for my different Hohner harps.
It's hard to tell at first if you're playing the thing and it's sounds are resonating in your mouth so you don't exactly hear the tone other people are hearing you generate..
Of course after a while you can learn how to tell. But I think it's useful to record your own self and just replay the sounds to really hear the differences.
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