rustywater
14 posts
Sep 11, 2008
12:08 PM
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I bought a harp holder today from a music shop in town, there was a choice of 2 and I chose the one which had some padding to protect the harp.I thought it would be a simple purchase and did not put a lot of thought into it.
Of course I was wrong and when I start to use the contraption I find it difficult to get both lips properly on the harp. I have tried varying the angle of the harp but whatever I do the top lip is not properly on the harp. Of course the natural thing to do is lean forward but of course the bloody harp moves forward as well!!
The second problem I encountered was that the harp is slightly pointing downwards and so the saliva then runs into the harp.
Has anyone encountered these problems or others with harp holders and how have you dealt with them. Of course the last question is what is a good brand the one I bought was K&M and was not cheap.
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oldwailer
186 posts
Sep 11, 2008
9:31 PM
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Ahhhh, You have now entered Harpholder Hell, Grassharper, the only problem in the universe with no good solution!
I now have three of the buggers. Over the years I think I have owned six in all. All of the ones I have now are relatively cheap--so I don't think I have a K & M--but two of them don't have a name on them.
One of them says "Made in Germany" on it--another one is a clever tubular steel thing that is very comfortable and has padding for the harp--but the angle on both of these is impossible to adjust--and the set angle is really bad and the way the harp clamps into them, you have to get your lips stretched over the clamps to be in good playing position.
The ones with the external springs are called "Jabberwockys"--(Only in my mind) because they have claws that catch and teeth that maim--they also remove prized beard hairs.
The only one I find useful is a Lee Oskar, which comes with a lousy angle, but it can be bent around to get an almost good angle. It is a Jabberwocky, of course--and it only holds ten-holers. The other two useless ones I have will also hold my 12 & 14 holers--but I don't really need that feature much, since the stuff I play on them isn't done with the guitar.
I found one online once that I thought might be good--don't remember where--but it was around $250! Might be cheaper to just buy myself a guitar player.
I hope all this rambling on helps. . .
Last Edited by on Sep 11, 2008 9:37 PM
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rustywater
15 posts
Sep 12, 2008
12:39 AM
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Oldwailer, thanks for your ramblings they made interesting reading. Somehow as soon as I started to use this thing yesterday I knew it would not be straight forward.
I live in Germany so I assume this is a German make. I was wondering why the salesman had a smirk on his face when I handed over the money, now I know why.
I imagine the designers of these things lying on a beach laughing his bits off everytime he thinks of some poor bugger who has either strained his neck trying to reach the harp or who has agonisingly pulled more hairs out of his beard!
So, what is the answer, well I think having my neck extended an inch or two will work. I will research that!!
I already shaved off the beard because I was sick to death of pulling hairs out on harps and beer cans.
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Scoltx
19 posts
Sep 12, 2008
4:05 AM
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I bought a Hohner "deluxe" rack which had the same problems you describe. I ended up buying the Harp Handle which is much improved as it has an angle adjustment.
http://www.elderly.com/accessories/items/HM24.htm
It claims to fit 14 hole harps but I haven't tried. I works really well on Hohner MS series and MB's but won't hold a Golden Melody type harp due to the cover shape on those. I even find my Lee Oskars a tight fit and it scratches the cover plates a little on the LO's when inserting and removing them, no problems with my Blues Harps or MB's tho.
I really should practice more with that rack 'n' the guitbox!
Scoltx
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oldwailer
187 posts
Sep 12, 2008
9:28 AM
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Thanks Scoltx--I had seen those holders before, but by then I was already pretty certain that none of them really worked. I'm going to get one.
Playing with the guitbox is a lot of fun--I should practice with it more too. The problem I have is that I lose my sense of time when I do it--I tend to speed up until my fingers fly off and my lips explode--so I've been working with a metronome some.
Getting a good sound with a holder is also a problem--but it can be done--the sound is just different than I get with hands on playing. . .
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bluzlvr
58 posts
Sep 12, 2008
1:32 PM
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I also have been frustrated trying to use one of those racks. After studying John Hammond, who's a real master at it, I noticed that when he plays, he kind of holds the harp in his mouth, the rack away from his body, instead of pressed up against it. My problem was always having the harp move away from me if I tried to establish a "base" in other words the rack against my chest....
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oldwailer
189 posts
Sep 13, 2008
9:00 PM
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That's a good point, Bluzlvr, John Hammond picks the harp right up and lays his head back and wails. As far as I can tell, he is using a Lee Oscar rack--or something that looks a lot like it.
I consider John Hammond a kind of national treasure--he's been at it for about 40 years and he's still at it, as far as I know.
I'm in awe of his guitar and singing skills so much I never really looked closely at his harp technique before.
I ordered one of those harp handle racks today--I'm hoping it makes it a little easier. . .
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2draw
36 posts
Sep 14, 2008
8:24 AM
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I just got a holder and have the same problem. I'm glad it was cheap cuz I have only used it a couple times. just saw John Hammond last nite. At Gilreins what a great show !
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LittleJoeSamson
60 posts
Sep 14, 2008
8:54 AM
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I really dislike harmonica braces. It might just be my little ole opinion, but I think it really limits what can be done with the instrument and it just sounds bad. Even Dylan and Neil Young can't make it sound good.
John Hammond has such a distinctive voice, that when he plays the harmonica he can't sing. To me, that detracts from his considerable talent.
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oldwailer
191 posts
Sep 14, 2008
10:09 AM
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I have to mostly agree with you, LJS--except for the part where it "sounds bad." I like the sound of Dylan--check out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LHoD0CZmJE
I also like some of Neil Young's music, although I wouldn't count myself among his greatest fans.
Not that I would care to convert you--I respect your opinion.
In the case of John Hammond, I agree completely. I have been a big fan of his guitar playing and singing for many years--but I had never even hardly noticed that he plays harp--I was just too busy figuring out his guitar groove. The harp he plays doesn't add anything to his act for me--but I guess there are those who love that style.
What I notice, and the reason I continue to practice this limited way of playing harp, is that, when I sing and play in public, people seem to like it when there is some "harp on a stick" thrown into the mix--and of course, it is great fun to do. . .
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rustywater
16 posts
Sep 14, 2008
1:50 PM
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There has been some very interesting comments made in this thread,
I must admit to being a big Neil Young fan but have never been into the Young/Dylan style, although even with the holder I have that style is possible.
There are 2 English players worth checking out who use/used racks and play/played blues.
The first is Duster Bennett, long dead and gone I'm afraid, a one man band with bass drum as well. I would urge everyone to try and get hold of any of his recordings there were not many, but especially a live recording of Fresh country jam, just over 5 minutes of genius. I'm sure someone will back me up on that.
The other is Eddie Martin who comes from Bristol in England. He has some very good albums out. There is a clip on Utube of him being interviewed and one of him playing a Robert Johnson song, worth checking out. It shows the rack can work. Not sure if the link below will work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW-Y9JplJ4w&feature=related
Keep the comments coming and Oldwailer let me know how you get on with the new rack.
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rustywater
17 posts
Sep 14, 2008
1:59 PM
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I just looked on Itunes and there is one album of Duster Bennett with it would seem a shorter version of Country Jam, worth checking out.
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oldwailer
192 posts
Sep 14, 2008
9:29 PM
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Hey! This Duster Bennet guy is great! Very cool music. What is he playing that on? I think the guitar is in the key of E--but it might be in a tuning which I'm not familiar with--and the harp seems to be a 14-hole Steve Baker???
Anyway--he sure does a great job with an old RJ classic. . .
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LittleJoeSamson
62 posts
Sep 14, 2008
10:59 PM
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An example of brace harmonica that is pretty good is "Piano Man" by Billy Joel. "Lonely People" by America is good, too.
Hard to tell, but some Tom Petty could be Ugly Betty stuff.
I do it runnin' in Am ( 2nd po. ) and modulate into Dm ( 1st po. )
"Last Dance for Mary Jane" a fave.
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oldwailer
193 posts
Sep 17, 2008
8:52 PM
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Well, Rustywater, I got my new harp handle rack today--I'm wearing it while I type! It's the best rack I ever had--the position is passable and it is far more adjustable than the other ones I've tried.
There is even room to grab the harp in the rack with a Gussow kind of grip and get some hand effects--just in case I freak out and need to get really crazy on the harp.
Of course, it is still just a rack--and that limits the use of hands a lot while playing guitar--so the same quality of sound can't be gotten--but, with the harp in better position, I am already getting much better sound out of the harp while guitar is still going.
Thanks for the tip--If I get something decent together I'll dump a vid on YT and warn you when it's up. . .
Last Edited by on Sep 17, 2008 8:54 PM
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Bb
22 posts
Sep 18, 2008
5:56 PM
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If you wanna see some great rack players check out Jimi Lee and some stuff this Aussie band Collard Greens & Gravy do.
Jimi Lee is a great player. He'll change your mind about what can be done on playing in a rack.
That said, I'll be happy just letting my guitar man go to town while i sing and blow. I don't need to do it all by myself.
-Bob
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Gray
22 posts
Sep 19, 2008
3:18 AM
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check it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UzJn13CJio
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rustywater
18 posts
Sep 20, 2008
1:26 PM
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OldWailer, I'm pleased the new rack works well, I will definately be looking at one of those. It is good to know there is something out there that works.
I've been playing harp for a few years, I don't get the time to practice as much as I would like, but I cannot help thinking, especially after reading some of the threads on this great site, that harp players are being ripped off with products and even Harps that arrive from the manufacturer out of tune.
When you consider the money spent on a few harps, it soon adds up, I get more and more pissed off with having to re tune a new instrument. I was bought a Meisterklasse in A as a present and it is a lovely harp to play, but it still needs to be re tuned and the reeds adjusted to make it playable properly. Now of course as a relative novice to making my own adjustments do I risk re tuning an expensive instrument myself or send it elsewhere and spend more money, it's outrageous when you think of it.
The reason I say all this is because I bought my ex wife a really cheap, new, flute for not that much more money than she spent on the harp and she was able to play it straight from the box.
I cannot believe the technology is not there to produce a harmonica that is in f#c#i#g tune.
Anyway rant over with, I'm sure Hohner has more important things to think about than customer satisfaction, like profits etc. But of course as I have read on here it is not just them. The bottom line is, if we can land a spacecraft on Mars, an in tune harp straight from the box must be available in the next 20 years!!!!
Last Edited by on Sep 20, 2008 1:48 PM
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oldwailer
195 posts
Sep 20, 2008
6:04 PM
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Gray, the link to Richard Sleigh was magnificent! It sets a new standard for me as to what could be done with a rack and guitar--and it also leaves me without an excuse when my tone isn't all that good when I play with the rack--but now I have something to aspire to. . .Thanks. . .
Rustywater, your comments have been duly noted--and I agree completely--Hohner needs to get with the program--their harps are supposed to be tuned by locals who have hereditary perfect pitch--bulllllllllsheeeeeeet!!! Maybe the local gene pool is too shallow??
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Gray
23 posts
Sep 21, 2008
4:26 AM
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Thanx old wailer
Richard Sleaigh is a sweet harp player/musician and harp technician.This clip also raised my vision for the rack.
It was good to see another position to.Some times I can get stuck in a riff rut and other positions open more doors.
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