Miles Dewar
49 posts
Nov 02, 2008
7:45 PM
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I Would like Experienced Harpers to join in this one to inform less experienced players.
When you find a guitar man, one that you do not know well. What are the first steps you take when working with them? (not in a jam or paid gig)
Do you just say give me a slow blues in "G", and go from there. Or are there some questions you use to "See what page they are on"?
---Be Positive---
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Oisin
34 posts
Nov 02, 2008
8:59 PM
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"Can you play anything other than Coldplay songs?" is usually the first one I have to ask round here followed by
" Are you really trying to tell me you've never heard of 12 bar blues before?"
These are usually kids, friends of my kids. Other than that I only know people from jams who are usually much better musicians than me already.
But this is a good question you ask Miles and I can see where you are coming from with it..
Oisin
Last Edited by on Nov 02, 2008 9:00 PM
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gene
48 posts
Nov 02, 2008
9:22 PM
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"'Twelve Bar Blues'? What songs do they play?"
or
"Who's that by?"
Last Edited by on Nov 02, 2008 9:25 PM
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harmonicanick
42 posts
Nov 03, 2008
1:04 AM
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'Play a song or tune, tell me what key it is, and I will enhance what you are playing'
PS You have to have the ability to do this first!!
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kudzurunner
156 posts
Nov 03, 2008
4:31 AM
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Well, the first question is obviously: Do you play blues?, followed quickly by, Who are your favorite guitar/harmonica players?
What you want to do is separate those who actually play blues from those whose idea of blues is Led Zeppelin (or Coldplay) and the Doors from those who have spent time with the Muddy Waters songbook, broadly speaking. Rock blues versus.....blues.
Ideally you'll find a guitar player who actually has an idea of how to back up a harp player, but those guys (and gals) are few and far between.
The telltale warning sign--and this is key--is a player who says, "Sure, I can play blues," but can't actually strum his way through a 12-bar blues progression. Somebody who makes the changes at what seem like arbitrary or whimsical points. Somebody who holds the I chord for 8 bars (or seven!), or somebody who can't play the same progression two times in a row. If you meet a guitar player like that, run the other way.
The good sign would be somebody who could actually play several different blues grooves: a shuffle, a rhumba, a slow blues.
Some "blues" guitar players have no idea how to play blues rhythm guitar.
Another warning sign is a guitar player who strums a 12-bar blues and never includes a seventh chord, or includes a seventh chord ONLY on bar 9--the V chord. This sort of guitar player is often a folkie.
"Do you know any Muddy Waters songs?" is a great question and will help you distinguish blues guitarists from non-blues guitarists.
Of course, you can learn a lot from trying to accompany non-blues guitarists. I've played with folkies, country rockers, etc.
Last Edited by on Nov 03, 2008 4:36 AM
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eharp
121 posts
Nov 03, 2008
7:11 AM
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wouldnt it be nicer if we tried to help the guitar player? seeing how they are so rare to find, maybe cultivating a potential partner would work out?
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Tuckster
34 posts
Nov 03, 2008
8:11 AM
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I always thought it was my shortcomings that kept me from playing with certain guitarists. Adam says you have to know how to accompany a harp player. Does that also apply to a whole band? I often refer to some songs as "harmonica friendly". I know when I can fit in, but I don't know why.Even some blues songs, like "Statesboro Blues"(Allman Bros. version) I can't seem to fit in other than playing a little rhythm.Does a band have to know how to play with a harp a player,or is it all on me?
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LittleJoeSamson
74 posts
Nov 03, 2008
7:03 PM
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Adam is correct, especially about knowing different grooves. I would add a funky groove, and the basic "Bo Diddley" .
I am shaking my head at how many fairly decent axe-slingers just can't get the basic shuffle down!
Also...Tasteful over fast and/or intricate. Subtle and sweet over loud. Think Eric Clapton "Slowhand".
( Course, Eddie Taylor happy is good, too! ).
Listen to the best: Buddy Guy, Hubert Sumlin, Bob Margolin, Clapton, Jimmy Thackery, Ry Cooder, Jonny Winter, and if you can find some..Danny Gatton.
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oldwailer
305 posts
Nov 03, 2008
7:11 PM
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Very interesting question, Miles. Since I would consider myself more a guitar man than a harp man at this point--but not a real pro on either one--a question like this could make me schizophrenic as a two headed goat.
One opinion I would like to share, though, is that you might want to avoid taking over too soon--a statement like "Give me a slow blues in G and take it from the 5" would be good way to start off and test his knowledge if you are hiring and paying the guitarist--but, if you are looking for a sort of a musical relationship, the way to say it might be more like "could we try a slow blues and take it from the 5?" If you get a blank stare just pack your harps.
So, in my opinion, the guitar man probably thinks he owns the gig--just like you do, as the harp player--I always did when I was just the guitarist. When a harp player got cheeky with me--I'd just replace him with a female singer or a lady who could play the maracas. (Oddly enough, no man ever saw the maracas move).
It's like any relationship--you just talk it over and be respectful--find out if you're even interested in going the same direction. Adam's point, to ask if he knows any Muddy Waters tunes is good--that eliminate me--but I'm just a folkie (;)--but I am trying to learn. . .
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Gray
33 posts
Nov 03, 2008
11:53 PM
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I found that the best way to get what you want is to know how to play it your self.SO I learned how to play guitar.Know, even the simplest of guitar players I can say "play it like this",and with in no time your jam is rollin.Plus you can make your own jam tracks.
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geordiebluesman
105 posts
Nov 04, 2008
12:52 AM
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Hey Oldwailer,I was enjoying this thread untill you started talking about shaking Maracas,now i've got an awfull image in my head of you on stage in the buff shaking yours!.This is too horrible to bear,i'll have to watch something less awful to make it go away,Friday The 13th should do or perhaps The Hills Have Eyes,Oh God the horror!
Last Edited by on Nov 04, 2008 12:53 AM
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Miles Dewar
55 posts
Nov 04, 2008
8:41 AM
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Thanks for The info everyone. got some very good answers for my question. There are a lot of guitar men around where i live (most likely guitar men everywhere). Now i have some ideas of how to "sort" them out. Everyone have a great day. and Go Bears!!! #1 in the Division! lol
---Be Positive---
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oldwailer
306 posts
Nov 04, 2008
4:31 PM
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Geordie--LOL!
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