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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Question on bending 3 hole draw on A Harp.
Question on bending 3 hole draw on A Harp.
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SMOKEY
Guest
Dec 07, 2008
3:44 AM
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Whats up yall!
First post and I really got to say thanks to Adam Gussow for putting all of this together and his priceless lessons on youtube.com. Thanks man!!
So you guys will know where I'm at, I've been playing for about 9 hours. I've gotten my 2 hole draw pretty loud, strong and full along with the 1,3,4,5 so far. I can bend the 2HD well, as well as the 1 and 4HD. I can tounge block octaves blowing and drawing up down the harp, I seem to get great results lip purseing and also what I think is U blocking. The whole tounge blocking and drawing from the side of my mouth is not very strong for me at all. I'm working on vibrato and muscle memory.
My question goes like this see... Last night when I bought my very first harp at the local music store (a hohner blues harp key of A) an older customer there over heard me telling the guy I was new and wanted a key of A and the customer told me "you really should start with a "C" harp first 'cause it ain't got no Sharp notes". I stuck to my guns and got the A.
So this leads me to wonder... Was he trying to warn me about the 3HD on a key of A harp? Is that where this sharp or flat note, which he implied it would be a difficult one, is found on a key of A harp? I've seen Adam get 4 notes on a 3 hole in a vid, bflat harp I think . I get the regular draw and some nasty, filthy, really low bent note on the 3 and thats it, nothing in between. Whats going on? Any pointers, tips, long winded explanations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.
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Preston
Guest
Dec 07, 2008
9:45 AM
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Smokey,
Well, it sounds like you've accomplished quite a bit in 9 hours. I think I got a single note on my first day, but it was several days before I could hit one without a little chord action sounding out before I finally clamped down on the single note, and months before I had a tone good enough that my wife would allow me to play in the same room as her.
Back to your question: The gentleman at the music store probably had some good advice, but sticking to your guns is awesome. I'm guessing by his comments he had alot of Music theory, but very little harp theory. For harpers who can overbend, our harps are fully chromatic instruments. Changing the key of the harp changes the range of your notes, and the layout of where the notes are in the holes, but you don't get any "extra" notes with a different key, if that makes sense. Those same sharps and flats on your A harp are on a C harp to.
I'm not sure what you mean by HD. Hard draw? Heavy draw? It's not a term I've seen around here in this forumn, but maybe you read it somewhere else. I'm guessing you're talking about your bent notes. Which is where starting with a C harp would've been nice, because they tend to bend a little easier for beginners.
The 3 hole is a tough one to bend on. Yes, there are 4 notes on it, and it is going to take you quite awhile to get good at all of them. But if you've only been doing this 9 hours, don't feel bad about not being able to do this yet.
Keep practicing, keep watching Adam, Chris, and Jason's instructional videos, and keep asking questions! Good luck
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tookatooka
41 posts
Dec 07, 2008
10:46 AM
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I took the 3HD to mean 3 hole draw. Or as some tabs put it -3.
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SMOKEY
Guest
Dec 07, 2008
4:03 PM
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Hey thanks Preston ! Yeah, sorry guys 3HD to me was short for 3 Hole Draw (HD). : )
Boy do I gots alot to learn!!!!!! One thing I am noticing is every mouth, throat and lungs are different along with natural abilities. This must account for a players personal (individual) Tone and or Style. Just like a guitar has endless combos for getting tone like different woods, pick ups, strings, neck material, fretboard material, pick up position and it goes on. Am I on to something here? I dunno..
Thanks again!
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Baker
13 posts
Dec 08, 2008
5:33 AM
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Hey Smoky,
I think what the guy in the shop was trying to tell you is that a harp in the key of C has no sharp or flat notes. (This does not include bends, it is just the blow and draw notes).
The C major scale goes: C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C - All the white notes on a piano.
The A major scale goes: A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#, A - This has three sharp notes.
However you don't need to really worry about this yet as the relative notes on a diatonic harmonica as all in the same place.
If you can play a riff on a harmonica in the key of A, than you can play the same riff, using the same holes on a key of C. The difference is that the key you are playing the riff in changes. Make sense?
As far as the 3 hole draw. There should be 4 notes on that one no matter what the key of the harp is. It is just practice getting them down.
I can't believe how much progress you have made. It took me months to get the bends sussed, and even longer to be able to play octaves.
Anyway, I hope this was some help.
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kudzurunner
190 posts
Dec 08, 2008
6:38 AM
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As a newbie, and for the first five years I played harp, I found the 3 draw on the A harp somewhat harder to bend effectively--i.e., to control, pitch-wise--than the 3 draw on a C harp.
In fact, I found the A harp in general noticeably harder than the C harp. So I soaked my A harps for the first five years. It wasn't until I was playing regularly at jam sessions in NYC and realized that other players didn't soak their harps that I decided to wean myself from the soaking habit with those low harps. I haven't soaked a harp in 20 years.
If you play a Marine Band harp for half an hour, or if you live in a humid climate, the harp will absorb some moisture and will become easier to play, more responsive. Soaking simply exaggerates and supercharges this process, and ends up destroying the harp, making it MORE difficult to play each time the harp dries out. Once you've soaked a harp once, you pretty much have to keep on soaking it. The word "soak" is a misnomer; I'd just run the harp under the faucet for five seconds, then briskly wrist-shake all the water out. Then play. You've now, at least temporarily, got a supercharged harp. (What customizers do, or part of what they do, is essentially seal off all the little places that moisture-expansion also seals off.) One trick to making the harp more responsive instantly is to spit a little gob of spit in the hole, then shake and blow it out to distribute it. (If you don't distribute the spit, some may linger on the brass reed itself and a note or two will go temporarily flat.) This trick is only effective for wooden-combed harps such as the Marine Band.
If you play the harp vigorously for a couple of hours a day, bending the 3 draw fairly often, after three or four days the harp--and that particular reed--will be somewhat more broken in and easier to extract and control bends on.
Last Edited by on Dec 08, 2008 6:42 AM
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SMOKEY
Guest
Dec 08, 2008
9:19 AM
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This forum is awesome ! ! ! I don't know a single harp player here in my town. Guitarists come a dime a dozen here... Seems like everyone can play the guitar but it sure would be nice to sit down with someone and learn my licks the old fashion way, the way it should be learnt.
Baker, you just releaved a whole bunch of worry in my head! Thanks.
"The C major scale goes: C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C - All the white notes on a piano.
The A major scale goes: A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#, A - This has three sharp notes.
However you don't need to really worry about this yet as the relative notes on a diatonic harmonica as all in the same place.
If you can play a riff on a harmonica in the key of A, than you can play the same riff, using the same holes on a key of C. The difference is that the key you are playing the riff in changes. Make sense?"
I'm glad you wrote that because I was beginning to think I should have gotten that stupid "C" harp after all, thinking what I learn on "A" wouldn't mean jack on another key because of these sharp notes and I would have to learn all over again once I finally get a "c" harp. But thats not the case.... fewwwww!!! (wiping sweat off my forehead)
Adam, Thanks for the reply!! I feel like "a famous movie star" has just made contact with little ol me!! Wait til my girlfriend hears about this! Adam Gussow wrote to me! (more on that later)
I'm pretty sure I saw you hawk a loogey into one of you harps on a youtube lesson once. So I tried spittn' a little in it after 4 hours of terrible honkin' notes on the 2 hole draw, worked like a charm!! HUGE difference.
So my GF has been watching lessons with me and now all of the sudden she's Satan and Adams' biggest fan... I didn't even know she llked the blues... go figure. After she saw the texas boots and fubu shirt, she was in love ( and I was rolling on the floor laughing ). Now she's thinking about pick'n up a harp too! SWEET!
Thanks so much Adam, keep doing what you do, its awesome!
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Honkin On Bobo
11 posts
Dec 08, 2008
9:19 PM
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You've been playing for NINE HOURS.
You can bend the 1,2 and 4 hole draws, tongue block octaves and lip pursing is no problem.
I think I'll put my harp down now, and try drums.
Maybe the kazoo.
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SMOKEY
Guest
Dec 09, 2008
8:41 AM
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Honkin on Bobo,
Now that I think about it, I watched Adams lessons for almost 3 weeks before I could actually afford to buy my first harp. So I was doing the whole da da ta ta and making goldfish lips for weeks before I got my hands on an actual harp! I think its only fair to say that all that "mental" preparation probably made a huge difference. I know you're just joking... don't put it down man, you'll get badass if you keep at it.
On a side note, and I hope I don't offend anyone here... I found that the shape of my lips and mouth on a succesful draw note are the same shapes I make when I'm smoking a joint. Especially when its a small roach, my lips automatically make a small hole with big lips and a big chamber in my mouth and throat.... After years of "practice" it kinda came natural once I got the harp.
(kids, don't try this at home!)
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eharp
167 posts
Dec 09, 2008
9:05 AM
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"I was doing the whole da da ta ta and making goldfish lips for weeks before I got my hands on an actual harp!"
the kid has got drive!! and a perpetual buzz! lol
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tookatooka
43 posts
Dec 09, 2008
9:13 AM
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Hey Smokey, great idea. If they could make a ten hole Chilum/harp stuffed with whacky backy, bending would be a breeze. Lucy in the sky with diamonds......
At least if you couldn't hit the note, you wouldn't really care.
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Preston
Guest
Dec 09, 2008
3:11 PM
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Did you REALLY accomplish all that stuff in 9 hours, or where you just smoked out and it seemed like it? Well, it's almost 4:20, I gotta go.
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SMOKEY
1 post
Dec 09, 2008
11:49 PM
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HA HA HA ! Funny stuff. I accomplished a bit more than that in 9 hours, I left out the scratchy throat, blistered tongue and purple swollen lips! My tongue and lips haven't been so sore since I first earned my "wings"... hehe
Ok, Harp related stuff: Any new-b's like me reading this heres a tip I just learned that really helps me... RELAX. I found that relaxing your mouth, neck, throat and face, really helps my tone and thickens the sound. I hit this whole learning the harp thing pretty intensely and I found that I am tensing up too much and trying to rush things. Its such an amazing feeling to loosen up and things fall in place to make an amazing sound.
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Andrew
7 posts
Dec 13, 2008
7:55 AM
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Honkin on Bobo, when I bought my first harp, it took me 9 hours to learn to play the one-hole draw WITHOUT bending it! lol
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