harpnoodler
2 posts
Jan 09, 2009
6:14 PM
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I thought I'd try this OB thing. I'd played with it for 5 minute spurts over the last year or so. Got the tortured bagpipe banshee screech and didn't know if that was in the right direction. Read about gapping, etc. figured if I couldn't at least get it to sound on the 6 blow (C Spec20) out of the box, then I wasn't going to get it and quit.
I just treated myself to a Firebreath and on the secong try i got a nice in-tune (by my piano which might need a tune) Bb!
I am pumped! I got Adam's workout w/OBs and Tenor Madness!
Now I'll gap a Spec20!
Off to torture the love of my life!!! Ah well, maybe she'll consider it a welcome change from 45 minutes of broken octave boogie LH on the piano...ya think? Me neither...
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Tryharp
66 posts
Jan 09, 2009
11:10 PM
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Congratulations on the OB, gapping and embossing make it so much easier.
When I first got an OB, I was so excited, rushed out to show the wife. She had this strange look on her face, a questioning look.......why in the hell would you want to make that sound??
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harpnoodler
3 posts
Jan 10, 2009
3:19 PM
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Thanks Tryharp! I know the journey's just beginning, but a least I've found the road! Having heard the not-quite-there OB, my mate's cool with the locked-in OB.
Now that I know this OB thing isn't just a snipe hunt, I'll check out some harp mod tips.
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djm3801
16 posts
Jan 10, 2009
6:07 PM
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Guys,
I did not know my wife had any sisters! First time I used my pignose amp, she said she thought I was killing a cat in the rec room.
Dan M.
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gene
101 posts
Jan 10, 2009
6:22 PM
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Harpnoodler,
What did you have to do to join the club that sends the rest of us out on the snipe hunt? :(
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harpnoodler
6 posts
Jan 10, 2009
7:25 PM
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Hi gene. What can I say?
I didn't really put much time into it, but I have spent many hours in the past getting control of my blow bends and, although it seems unrelated, I have put a lot of time in messing with my mouth shape and tension to explore the percussive aspects of chord work to imitate Sonny Terry and John Mayal.
I would say the OB attack is like a blow bend, but I can't just hit it and then lean on it like a BB. Keeping the reed from screeching involves twisting my mouth cavity into weird shapes by sort of arching my throat's back, if that makes sense. I can't really say much more about it, because I can't count on the OB sounding without starting on the regular blow note, and even then, it's only about half the time and I can't sustain the OB for more than a second or two at this point.
I'd say I'm not really in club, but I know the clubhouse exists. I've just kinda snuck in the clubhouse door and no-one's kicked me out yet!
I wasn't totally truthful in my OP when I attributed my first OB to the firebreath. I did get the Special 20 C harp blow six OB to occasionally sneak through the screech as a very fleeting pure tone, but I had absolutely no control over over it and I had no feel for how to sustain it. I'm pretty sure gapping would have helped and I'm going to try that and any other tricks I can find to make the harp more OB-friendly.
What the Firebreath did was to give some measure of control over the OB, but it is an expensive harp and I don't think I'll buy another now that i've had the snipe in my sights.
My gut feeling is that if you can't yet bend holes 7 (microbend, not a full half-step), 8 and 9 and get the 10 bend to pop in under control, then you may not have the embouchure control to do an OB. If you can, then just be aware that the horrible screech is a sign you're almost there (I didn't know that) and also I think it's pretty well impossible for a novice to get the OB on most out-of-the box harps. Hope this helps!
I'm way at the back, but I'm hoping to see more of the clubhouse.
Edited to correct equating the 7 blow bend with the 8,9,10.
Last Edited by on Jan 12, 2009 6:05 PM
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SteveL
7 posts
Jan 10, 2009
8:02 PM
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when you talk about "arching the back of your throat", I guess what you are doing is raising your velum to block off your nasal cavity, that would stop air escaping through your nose, and force it to go out through your mouth. You can experiment with this by making an LLLLLL sound, and without moving your tongue, change to an NNNNN sound. The only change between these two sounds is that the velum is raised in an L sound, and lowered for an N sound.
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harpnoodler
7 posts
Jan 10, 2009
8:28 PM
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SteveL, it doesn't FEEL like an airflow thing: more of a resonance cavity change. But we're getting into subtleties that are beyond me at this point. I'll defer to experts like kudzurunner and buddha at this point. The best I can do is to say it's like I'm at the point of bearing down on a blow bend to give it some power, but instead I back off ever so sightly and change the shape of my mouth/throat.
I should add that since I can't hit it reliably or sustain it, let alone add vibrato to it, my description may illustrate how NOT to do it. Again, I defer to certified members of the OB club...
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gene
102 posts
Jan 10, 2009
9:11 PM
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"I should add that since I can't hit it reliably or sustain it, let alone add vibrato to it, my description may illustrate how NOT to do it. Again, I defer to certified members of the OB club..."
I think there is value in hearing from somebody that's at your stage. Imagine trying to learn how to tie a shoelace from somebody who doesn't remember how to do it slowly...
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Preston
87 posts
Jan 11, 2009
9:12 AM
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From one non-professional musician/harp player to another: was my YT video on the harpfriends channel any help to you guys, or do I need to forget about trying to teach?
I was hoping to inspire some of you guys that if a hobbiest harp player that's only been playing for two years like myself could overblow, anybody could. That it wasn't just something that only the pro's could do.
I hope nobody thought I was taking myself too seriously, I'm just trying to spread the knowledge!
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DaDoom
14 posts
Jan 11, 2009
10:37 AM
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Grats harpnoodler!
The feeling when you finally get your first OBs is amazing. I'm no pro on OBs either but I manage to pop them quite reliably by now and I can even bend them (it really IS possible). All I know is that the harp plays an important role - especially at the beginning. Set it up correctly and OBs are easy to get.
They are usually harder to achieve on lower key harps but there again it all depends on the harp. I have a Spec20 in the key of A that overblows like mad. All I did was regapping the reeds according to Adam's video.
As you grow more experienced with OBs the role of the harp will diminish. Eventually you'll be able to overblow on all of your harps - even the cheaper and unadjusted ones.
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2009 10:38 AM
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bluzlvr
101 posts
Jan 11, 2009
1:32 PM
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Overblows remain for me the most frustrating thing ever on the harp. I have tried each and every trick I've seen posted on the internet, and I haven't even come close. I can do a nice blow bend on the seven hole, but can't get an overblow on the sixth. I think I need to find a one on one instructor....
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2009 1:32 PM
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DaDoom
17 posts
Jan 11, 2009
1:44 PM
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Hey bluzlvr
OBs are really hard to explain. It's like a tiny sweetspot you need to hit and it's really hard to miss. I recommend you to focus on the 6 OB at first - for me it's still the easyest OB to get even on unadjusted harps. Try to play as fast as you can:
6 draw unbent
6 draw bent
6 OB
At the beginning you'll hit the 6 blow instead of the OB. Practice enough and you'll eventually hit the OB.
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2009 1:45 PM
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harpnoodler
8 posts
Jan 11, 2009
6:48 PM
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I got the 5 blow OB to kick in on the Firebreath, and as I feared, the decription I posted for the 6 doesn't rightly describe how I got it. Instead of opening up the back of my throat as I described for the 6, I pursed my lips and made the "uptight little prune-mouth" shape and leaned on the 5 OB when it kicked in and it stuck for longer than I was able to achieve with the 6. I tried the "pruney" (completely different from the way i first got it) embouchure for the 6 and got the OB , so either my description is misrepresenting or missing something important, or the OB's "tiny sweet spot"--I like that description DaDoom, it fits-- is not just a mouth resonance cavity thing.
bluzluvr, DaDooms 6 blow exercise is a good one, though I wouldn't sweat the "fast as you can" part. Still, it helps if you're quick.
You're getting close if you choke the 6 blow reed after the 6 bend. You're even closer when you get an ungodly shriek that sounds like a double-stop from the bowels of hell. It will annoy any mammal in range (particularly wives and dogs).
From there, just change everything about your embouchure that you can without interrupting the airflow and you might hear the OB poke out. It helps if you know what tone you're looking for, so if you can play a minor third above the blow tone (Bb for a C-harp blow 6, which is G) on a keyboard or another harp and keep your ears peeled.
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2009 6:52 PM
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harpnoodler
12 posts
Jan 12, 2009
6:02 PM
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Sorry for the double-post, but I have news!!!
I very roughly gapped the 6 blow reed on my Spec20. I bent it too far up at first and it either choked or ONLY gave me the OB. I backed it off a bit, and while the OB doesn't pop in every time, it's much easier to get than on my $65.00 Firebreath! Not only that, but I was able to hold a few of the OB's long enough to bend them up about a half step!!!
All the embouchure contortions seem unnecessary now that I did about 2 min work on the harp! I'm starting to think that 80% of the OB battle is harp set-up! Geez, it seems like 1 hour of serious gapping and maybe embossing and whatever else can help will be worth 10 hours of frustrating practice.
So any of you who can't OB, if you can blow bend, gap your harps! It's such a little thing, but it is the difference between success and failure!
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oldwailer
441 posts
Jan 12, 2009
7:32 PM
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Right, Noodler, I'll get right on that gapping thing--as soon as I feed dinner to Tinkerbelle ;)
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