Friends I am sad to say that after 2 years of joyous playing, I have blown out my heretofore favorite Harmonica: a Bb Hohner Blues Harp. Now, back when I bought it, it cost me $22 from the Instrument Store (Amazon Merchant). I've bought a couple of Blues Harps since then, both online and from a local music shop, and their quality has been, shall I say "variable"? Now that they are running around $30-$35 a pop, I just can't justify that kind of gamble. I've had the same experience with Marine Bands, which also now cost that much.
So, I feel like it's time to move away from Hohner, and branch out. Many hours of research on the internet have brought me down to two choices. Both are wood bodied (my preference), and are reminicent of the Marine Bands and Blues Harps I love, while still being in the $24-$25 price range. They are: the Hering Vintage 1923, and the Seydel Blues Soloist (not the Soloist Pro). Now is where I need some advice. Below I will list pros and cons of each harp as I see them, along with some questions about each where I am not sure. Please read over them, and offer comments, experience, advice, etc... FYI, I am getting more and more adept at maintaing and modifying harps, so the need for a little embossing, reed profiling, gapping, etc. is not and issue for me. I'm pretty sure both brands will need these things done..
Hering Vintage 1923 Pros: 1)Sealed wood body 2)Screws instead of nails 3)Just intonation tuning (great chords) 4)Side vented coverplates (like Marine Band) 5)Thick reed plates 6)"Cool" antiqued brass look. Cons: 1)Sold only by the Guitar Center/Musicians Friend conglomerate corporate monster and eater of local music shops 2)I've heard some reports that the "vintage" coverplates stick more to your lips than do stainless or nickel plated ones Questions: 1) Is the antiqued look "cool" or "hokey"? 2) Is Hering going to be a reliable choice of harp manufacturer? (ie. will future availability be an issue?) 3) Durability/Longevity?
Seydel Blues Soloist Pros: 1) Sealed wood comb 2) Available through some reputable small business owners (Dave Payne, Rupert Osler, etc.) 3) One Merchant offers free engraving of up to 32 letters (can anyone say Position root notes?) 4) Screws, not nails 5) Good looks, but not too hokey. Cons: 1)I'm not sure about the tuning, but the term "soloist" makes me think it's tuned to an equal temperment (good on key single notes, bad chords). This is a big one! Questions: 1) So, does anyone know how these are actually tuned? 2) Durability/longevity?
Hi ,i just bought a 1923 to try out, the biggest draw back i found it the the funny taste it leaves in the mouth ,like old wooden furnitures .Hard to explain,but i will only keep mine as a backup.I own several seydels, not soloist though but the quality is really good, seydel usualy tune their harps in compromise tuning..
If your heart is set on wood then I'm wasting 5 minutes, but before you go away from Hohner, why don't you try a Big River? Here are some reasons to think about it:
1) If you don't like it, you can simply put the reed plates into your old BH.
2) In the US they're available from low D right up to high G - in the UK they only come in 8 keys. Why, Hohner, if you read this, do we have to order them from overseas or fart-arse around putting in different reeds with the wrong key stamped on the comb?
3) The Seydel Soloist only comes in 8 keys.
4) BRs have the side vents that you seem to like.
5) They sound absolutely fantastic: loud, brassy, in your face!
6) They've got the sturdy cases that the MS harps use. No annoying harp rattle in your pocket.
7) If you've got used to the sharp edges and protruding reed plates then it will probably not feel too different to your BH.
8) They are - as we Brits say - cheap as chips!
9) You ask the question: Is Hering going to be a reliable choice of harp manufacturer? (ie. will future availability be an issue?) Good point. I expect there are a lot of people who've gotten used to Delta Frosts, but they are now like gold dust, at least in the UK. I seem to remember reading on this forum that BR were first introduced in '91, so it does seem like an established line. The same thread mentioned their shortcomings at that time. I don't think that today's BR is the same as those back then, what with computers used in production and what have you.
On this forum I've heard people say that people say bad things about them. Maybe it's because they don't cost much so they think they must be crap. I haven't found any bad reviews except for those that have been written by beginners, which you're not. I've also found a few articles on the Net that say a lot of pros use them. What the hell, buy all 3 and don't eat for a few days. Just joking! ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
Last Edited by on Feb 05, 2009 1:34 PM
I have a Seydel Solist and I must say that it's really nice playing and great sounding harp! But there are some drawbacks. Seydel says, that the comb is sealed, but this isn't done perfectly. It sweals and warps (even more than my Marine Band Classic), so I had to seal it by myself with beeswax. But after I done this (and sanded the sharp edges of the comb) it's fun to play! It's isn't tuned equal tempered, it's a kind of compromised tuning. About the durability. I have mine for a bit less than a year, but it plays as great as first day! Loud, easy, on the hole no 4 even too easy, because it can be blocked if you blow with to much force or play it to rappidly. The harp comes with fancy leather "sock" to keep it in, so there won't be any cluncking noise.
You could buy some Cross Harp replacement reed plates for your Blues Harps. Why buy the whole harp if you have the other parts and you've liked them in the past. No matter what brand you buy, at any cost, they can need work.
Hi all, thanks for the replies. I definately have smome food for thought here. A couple of points, though:
@harpwrench. I forgot to mention that these ARE replacement reedplates for my BluesHarp. The original reedplates went bad after one year, and these replacements also have blown after one more year. I've retuned them a few times now, but the 2 and 3 draws are just shot... Plus, the MS series replacement reedplates are MORE expnesive than a to buy a BigRiver and steal the reedplates out it like mickil has suggested. I just think Hohner is really ripping us off on this...
@mikil This is a really good suggestion that I had not thought of... I've never owned a Big River, and I'd forgotten that they also have vented coverplates which I like (based on the analysis of Dave Payne at elk river harmonicas, these side vents add a lot, in terms of the harps's tone). These suckers are also even cheaper here in the states than the two harps i originally asked about. The only problem is that they are still Hohner, and I really feel like I need to at least test the waters of a different manufacturer...
@Maciekdraheim, cm16600, and BlackBird: Ahhh... Compromised tuning! I see. BlackBird, you will notice that your link, which points to Seydels own products page, provides the info that I found quite confusing. Seydel only says that these harps are "richter" tuned. All standard diatonics are tuned to "richter" tuning (not, of course, minor tuned, solo tuned, etc..). I was after the type of richter tuning (Just, equal, compromised etc.) However, looking around more on their site, I found this link that shows their type of compromised tuning. It seems they also tune to A=444hz instead of A=440, which is endorsed by folks like steve baker. Good! I also found this link which shows that you can also choose to specify either just intonation or equal tuning instead of the compromised tuning! Very cool!
@cm16600: Hmmmm... your comments worry me. I don't like the sound of that funny taste you describe. I'm very curious to try Hering, but I think the cons are starting to pile up. Foremost is the fact that in the USA you can ONLY get them (reliably that is) from GC/MF, which I really want to stay away from (to help the small businesses!)
So: I guess now I've got to decide between the Big River route, or the Seydel! I'm leaning towards the Seydel, just cause I really want to try something different! I'll let you all know what I decide, and how it turns out. Thanks again for all the advice! ---------- -------------- The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Had tried out 1923, Big River, different others...would definitely recommend to try out a Solist Pro if you didn't play one yet. I LOVE mine(after very minor reed adjustments), I had NO problems with swelling (with that model) so far...
Last Edited by EddyLizard2 on Jun 24, 2013 3:13 PM
Hi, I too love Blues harps and have just ordered a Bb Hering 1923 although its out of stock but should be with me in the next 2 weeks. Stay away from the Big rivers, they are super leaky and they catch any facial hair you might have,they even catch hair if you've shaved the day before. As for the Blues harp,if you ask me their worth the extra,i know Hohner have put up their prices but the Blues harp is a fine harp and probably the most consistant for quality. Ive been working my way through different brands and models but alway come back to my Blues harp every time. I thought the 1923 looked like a quality harp and the reviews are good so im gonna try one. I'll let you know how it compares to my Blues harps asap.
Last Edited by on Feb 06, 2009 11:41 AM
@Ant38 Yeah, I've checked out their website. It's been unchanged for at least a year now. I also heard that they closed down their one USA office (it was in florida somewhere)... It's tough because I'd like to give them a try, but I want to go with a company that I know will be around when I need them... As for the Big Rivers I think if I do go that route I'd only be pirating reedplates out of them. I've checked prices and you can get a new Big River for ~16-18 USD depending upon key, but the replacement MS reedplates are ~22-25 USD depending upon key. It's possible that the MS replacement plates are of better quality (I've found that to be the case compared with the stock blues harp reedplates), but $25 is steep for just a set of reedplates, let alone the fact that you gotta buy BOTH draw and blow reedplates everytime (I only ever blow out draw reedplates). What are we supposed to do with all those dang Blow reedplates? I've got three perfectly good sets of these just hanging out in my parts bin...
@EddyLizard and cm16600: I'd love to try a Soloist Pro one day, but I simply can't afford to pay that much for harps now (I'm a starving grad student with out a "real" job). I'm thinking now that I will go for a a standard soloist, probably ordered from Elk River Harmonicas since Dave Payne contributes so much to the online harp community. If you don;t know him, look him up on YouTube. Tons of informative Harp care and customizing vids, as well as some great bluegrass playing! Plus he offers all sorts of replacement parts for Seydel harps. Everything from single reeds to single reedplates to individual screws... That sort of service helps to keep you from feeling ripped off all the time! :)
Hi Isaacullah. I have just watched some of your videos on the amps etc. you have built, amazing! I don't have a clue when it comes to electronics and it's great to see someone experimenting. Some pretty good harp playing too. As to choice of harps I can't understand why someone who experiments with sound as much as you do is locked in to only wooden combed harps. If you want to look at harps with other combs at the bottom end of the market try either the Hering Free Blues(I was given some of these and for the money they were pretty good, £7 on the Thoman web site) or the Huang Silvertone/Star Performer at about $10 on your side of the pond. At the top end it has to be the Suzuki Promaster 350V. valved with a metal comb which I reckon to be the most airtight harp you can get. p.s. It's great to see someone supporting Dave Payne, he is one of the most helpful people you could ever deal with, a real gent.
@ Ant138: Hi, have a look at my thread 'Big Rivers Leaky?' ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
@wheezer Thank you for the compliments! I'm glad you've enjoyed the vids I've made on the results of my "tinkerings"... I got into the electronics becasue I am too poor to buy (at retail prices) brand name equipment, but I REALLY love the sound of amped harp. After getting over that initial hump (I knew nothing at all about electronics), now my DIY sound gadget hobby is second only to my Harp obsession! :) FYI, the first thing I ever built was a harp mic, following the instructions for the I-mic (which you can find by googling). At the time I had picked up a used 20 watt Radioshack PA (solid state), but only had a really crappy vocal mic. Once I built my first mic, I couldn't stop, and now I've got several, all with their own "flavor". Interestingly, the best one I've made isn't the one with the crystal element, it's a mic I built into a gutted mini-maglite flashlite (torch), and uses an old cell-phone ear-bud for the element! In reference to my preference to wood-combed harps: Yeah, it's kind of irrational. I'm not one of those guys who swears that comb material makes a huge difference to sound. For me, it's mainly that I love the look of wood, and am not particularly keen on the look of plastic combs and the taste of plastic parts in my mouth. I re-seal all my wood combs with beeswax (I rub it on, then melt it into the wood with a hairdryer on low), which tastes really quite nice, and makes the tips of the combs easier on the tongue. Also, I like that wood combs come from fast-growing, sustainably, harvested orchard woods like fruit (pearwood, etc.) and maple. One of the things I read about Hering harps is that they searched all over Brazil for a good reliable sustainable source of wood for their combs, and ended up using a tropical wood that is farmed in a silviculture range. But given that cm16600 noticed a "bad" taste, I assume that they are using some sort of chemical laden sealant on the comb, which is too bad... FWIW, I do own a few plastic harps, a couple of SP20's (D and low E), and a couple of Lee Oskars (Natural Minor Am, and Harmonic Minor Bb). They are good harps: they play well and they sound good, but I just seem to like my wood combs better! :)
Cheers,
Isaac
PS. Look out for a couple of new vids in the next few days. I've finally built my accoustic reverb, and I'm working on a "porchboard" and DIY looper/sampler/recorder, as well as new, battery powered amp... ---------- -------------- The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Hey all, I thought I'd just post up on the results of this thread. Because of a very generous donation by a member of this forum (you know who you are--you are most kind!) I was able to afford a Seydel Soloist Pro. I bought it from Dave Payne at Elk River Harmonicas. He called me up after I placed my order to talk harps and to get a feel for what my needs as a customer would be. He had a Bb Soloist Pro in stock, and he shipped it right away (it came in three days!).
I have to say that this harp is in a whole other league compared to my Hohners. It's unbeleivable. Super super smooth on the lips. The coverplate just glides along, and the comb tines are quite rounded and are also slick because of the sealant. It plays beautifully! Super easy and fluid bends, GREAT tone, and very nice intonation. Unlike any of the Hohners I've ever purchased, I didn't feel like I had to make any adjustments to it out of the box (ie. it was gapped just right). PLUS: I hit my first real sustained overblow on it ON MY FIRST TRY! And I was able to repeat it over and over again. This was on the 6 hole, and then I tried on the 5, AND GOT THAT ONE TOO! I had only ever once before gotten a little bit of an overblow to sound on my C marine band, but I only got it once and was never able to repeat it, so this is really amazing to me...
From here on out, I'm a Seydel man. Period. I'll buy 'em from Dave Payne as long as he keeps selling 'em. I can't endorse him or this harp enough... And to the list member who helped me out: all I can say is thank you, thank you, thank you! Be assured that, when I can, I will pay your kindness forward. This community here is amazing. I'm really glad to have it.
Just got my Bb Hering 1923 today and it plays great. The vintage finish is really nice, wood comb seems to be of good quality and it bends beautifully. There was a slight funny taste in my mouth after playing just like CM166OO stated but i put this down to the harp being new. On the whole a very good harp. Ive never really bothered with Hering before but i might see what else they've got to offer. Just waiting on a Suzuki promaster in A and a Bushman Souls voice in F now.
