Miles Dewar
159 posts
Feb 08, 2009
4:47 PM
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I've heard a lot of people including Gussow say that "We swing the same way".
I've heard of swing as playing constantly in front of or behind the beat, but was wondering what Gussow means when he says that him and Sterling "swing the same way".
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---Go Bears!!! (Richard Dent for Hall of Fame)---
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mickil
16 posts
Feb 08, 2009
6:37 PM
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I think he means that they were in sync. To me, it comes down to two things: tempo and what you do within that tempo.
He points out that Charlie Hilbert may occasionally speed up or slow down a little on the jam tracks. That's nothing compared to what I've worked with; I've never jammed with a solo guitarist who didn't speed up, some of them brilliant technicians. Once, I did a gig with someone who speeded up so much I wanted to strangle him. If you're the front man, you're the one who looks silly, not the guy sitting behind you strumming merrily away.
Both Gussow and Ricci point out on their channels the importance of keeping a steady beat, the latter saying that you can sound good if you can just manage to do that properly.
That's tempo. As for swing, I think you're absolutely right: it's playing constantly in front of or behind the beat, or constantly alluding to it, but the beat has to be there; it's the exact opposite of what a marching band does, where everyone strives to ACCENT ON the beat.
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2009 6:45 PM
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oldwailer
493 posts
Feb 08, 2009
8:04 PM
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Here is a quote that I have been working with for a definition of swing. This quote comes from a David Barrett book on third position:
"The word *swing* means to take an eighth note pattern that would otherwise be played straight (1/2 & 1/2 = 1) and elongates the first eighth (2/3) by shortening and placing the second eighth later in time relative to the first eighth (1/3) (2/3 & 1/3 = 1). If the notation showed every part that is swung, instead of seeing two eighth notes together, you would see three triplet-eighths with the first two notes in the triplet figure tied together. This would crowd the music and make it very difficult to read." In Blues, ..." as in jazz, swing is always assumed.?
To me this puts the accent of the measure one eighth behind the downbeat. The basic shuffle rhthym? I could be wrong here. . .
I know--that is a real mouthful--and I also think it is off-topic here--I think Adam just meant that he and Mr Satan got along musically. . .
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gene
128 posts
Feb 08, 2009
9:29 PM
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..."you would see three triplet-eighths with the first two notes in the triplet figure tied together."
Another way to show it would be to have the pairs of eighth notes with leggato (-) over the first eighth note and a staccato (.) over the second one of each pair. That wouldn't crowd the music, but you don't need it because, as Oldwailer said, the swing is assumed....
But what if a section of a song does not call for swing (or shuffle)?
Yet another way to show it would be a dotted eighth and a sixteenth.
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2009 9:31 PM
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Miles Dewar
162 posts
Feb 09, 2009
6:17 AM
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Thanks for the technical stuff Oldwailer and Gene. Very "visual" now.
---Go Bears!!! (Richard Dent for Hall of Fame)---
Last Edited by on Feb 09, 2009 6:17 AM
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RyanMortos
69 posts
Feb 09, 2009
10:49 AM
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All I know is,
It don't mean a thing if it aint got that swing! Doo Wot, doo wot, doo wah...
Couldnt resist, my bad.
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~Ryan
PA
Ryan's Tube - Containing [0] uploads and counting...
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bluzlvr
121 posts
Feb 09, 2009
1:56 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5fsqYctXgM
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Miles Dewar
167 posts
Feb 09, 2009
10:57 PM
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lol...
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---Go Bears!!! (Richard Dent for Hall of Fame)---
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Violin Cat
30 posts
Feb 10, 2009
7:45 AM
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A few here have greatly made this point already but I like this definition for my brain;" Swing is the elasticity of time", YOUR time though, no one else's, yeah people can swing together, but it it is your PUSH/PULL against or with the established tempo and groove that gives the feel of swing. Speeding up/ or slowing down whole or extended phrases by accident is not really swinging at all. Rick Estrin's new video has some cool demonstrations of this illusive idea. For me the reason Little Walter was the greatest of all those old guys is he played with time in his phrasing and licks more than anyone! Adam Swings as hard as anyne I have ever heard. You can swing on funk, rock, shuffles, rhumbas, folk, polkas or anything!
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