eharp
213 posts
Feb 16, 2009
8:16 PM
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sounds like she wont notice if you stomp all over her vocals and leads.
YOU GOT A GREEN LIGHT!!
'tis some tasty harp work.
(did you tell her there is already a song called "oreo cookie blues"?)
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Zhin
117 posts
Feb 16, 2009
8:17 PM
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I think it's very cool of you to share vids like this because it's different from most of the usual stuff you post.
I like it.
But within the limited scope of my wisdom, I don't think I recognize that as blues.
You do a superb job making her sound good though. I'd lose interest very quickly if it weren't for the harp.
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My Videos
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Zhin
119 posts
Feb 16, 2009
8:33 PM
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I still wouldn't watch her shows even if you played in them regardless of those facts. :p
I would watch you play in most other circumstances though!
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My Videos
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jbone
19 posts
Feb 16, 2009
10:29 PM
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my compliments on your chops buddha! and as far as the gal goes, it's not much blues but looked/sounded like pretty worthy stuff. for that kind of $$ i'd put up with that much and maybe more!
harp can fit into so many different styles of music. and really, my style doesn't change a whole lot from one to another except maybe position switches etc. i play with the same feeling whether it's blues, rock, country, folk, whatever. it's kind of mission for me to try different genres where i think i can possibly fit in and add to the beast.
your playing kind of exemplifies that idea, your one and only rehearsal and you slotted right in. my compliments!
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danielbs
40 posts
Feb 17, 2009
1:53 AM
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I'll pay $10 to see you play buddha :-)
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kudzurunner
282 posts
Feb 17, 2009
5:00 AM
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Does the singer mind that you posted rehearsal videos on YouTube? And does she know that you're venting about her in a public forum, using those rehearsal videos as evidence?
Some rehearsals are open to the public. Many are not--and for a reason. Rehearsals are generally like woodsheds: a place where mistakes can openly be made, discussed, and remedied without fear of being judged. The sanctity of rehearsal space is particularly important when two musicians are coming together for the first time and trying to find common ground that may be difficult to find.
Whether or not somebody cuts you off during a rehearsal tells me nothing useful about them. Every musician I've ever met does that at some point during a rehearsal. The whole point of rehearsals, in fact, is to flush out all the mistakes, miscues, and other bad stuff BEFORE the performance. More of such stuff is likely to surface when two musicians are coming at the planned performance from divergent points on the compass.
As for the talk about "chick singers": jeez. I thought we were past all that.
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2009 5:06 AM
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GermanHarpist
91 posts
Feb 17, 2009
10:54 AM
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ask her if you can post the vids and post some more.
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http://www.youtube.com/germanharpist
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harpnoodler
29 posts
Feb 17, 2009
11:37 AM
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I wonder, sometimes, what the aftermath would look like, if one were to refer to, in their presence, as "Chick Singer", Bonnie Raitt or Koko Taylor. Perhaps Annie Raines as "Chick Harp Player" or maybe Hillary Clinton as "Chick Secretary of State"?
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Gray
52 posts
Feb 17, 2009
12:54 PM
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On ya Adam.
No hard feelings Buddha,Zen is what Zen does!
P.s love the up scale triplets,viola stylen.
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djm3801
37 posts
Feb 17, 2009
2:40 PM
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Adam,
Excellent commentary. I think no harm was meant but it is alwasy nice to ask.
Dan
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Buddha
62 posts
Feb 17, 2009
2:54 PM
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Honestly I didn't like the line that was taken by several posters. I posted these so players can learn and to hear something different.
I shall post no more videos.
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2009 2:55 PM
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GermanHarpist
92 posts
Feb 17, 2009
3:29 PM
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Its a pitty. I thought they were very interesting. But I do understand (thread turned awkward... :).
Its the backside of forums (in general)... Take it easy. Keep on postin.
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http://www.youtube.com/germanharpist
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kudzurunner
284 posts
Feb 18, 2009
6:28 AM
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I respect your decision, Buddha, as I welcome your contributions to this forum--videos included.
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harpnoodler
33 posts
Feb 18, 2009
6:52 AM
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Put me on record as saying that I admire your generosity in sharing those videos. They illustrate for those of us who are still learning the foundations of music how a gifted professional handles the demands of improvisation.
I think I speak for all of us who hang out here when I say I'm disappointed that you won't be posting any more videos, but that I look forward to reading any future posts and learning from them.
Andrew
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tookatooka
122 posts
Feb 18, 2009
7:05 AM
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Hey Buddha. I second the last three posts. I really respect your YouTube stuff and your thoughts on harp playing.
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When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
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djm3801
38 posts
Feb 19, 2009
4:53 PM
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Buddha,
Always enjoy your commentary and opinions not matter what the topic. You add much value to the dialogue here. I think the only observation was getting permission for posting. It would be a total shame for you to stop posting vids. I guess is was just a permission thing. No one meant offense to you and you certainly meant no harm in posting. I am a nobody but you are a well respected contributor who has much to share.
Dan
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Buddha
63 posts
Feb 19, 2009
5:58 PM
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Permission from WHO? Do you guys think it was a hidden camera? Do you think she had no knowledge what I might do with it? My integrity was being questioned by several posters. I feel disrespected.
Want more valuable info from me? The kind of info maybe a handful of people on the planet can give you?
Online lessons are available via skype.
Thanks
CM
Last Edited by on Feb 19, 2009 6:02 PM
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kudzurunner
286 posts
Feb 19, 2009
7:28 PM
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Chris:
I can't speak for anybody else. But I can certainly speak for myself.
What I questioned wasn't whether the camera was hidden. I questioned whether she knew you were using the rehearsal videos you'd shot, with their imperfections, as a way of mocking her here, in public. She's your fellow musician. In the post you've deleted, you referred to her--sneered at her, really--as a "chick singer."
I wasn't disrespecting you to point that out. I was doing what people in communities do: respectfully questioning your decision to disrespect your fellow musician in a public forum.
We guys are making a mistake to assume that this forum is an all-male club. It's not. I'm not trying to be PC here, I'm just trying to hew to the creed that is stated quite plainly at the top of the homepage of this forum: respect carries the day in this community. This doesn't mean we won't occasionally cross swords. If you never do that--AND find a way of continuing the conversation--then you weren't really living in community to begin with.
I find it impossible to believe that you would have posted similiar rehearsal videos of a male singer/songwriter, encouraged us to laugh at his incompetence, and topped the whole thing off with a dismissal like--for example--"gay emo guy." I just don't see you doing that. The disrespect on your part towards your fellow musician would have been too obvious. None of us would do that. But some of us--not just you--have slightly different standards when it comes to women. Or at least that's how it seemed to me.
I wasn't disrespecting you to point that out. We all occasionally go a little overboard. God knows I do. The one time I drank before making a YouTube video, I came up with a bloated, grandiose bit of amp-porn in which I fondled my Tweed Bassman, peered up its tattered skirt, stared boozily into the camera, and ended up saying, "Jason Ricci, I'm gonna kick your ASS!"
That the one video, out of 170, that I've taken down. I respect your decision to take your videos down, and I'm happy for the many excellent, thoughtful posts you've contributed to this forum.
Last Edited by on Feb 19, 2009 7:30 PM
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Buddha
64 posts
Feb 19, 2009
8:57 PM
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Well I go a little overboard at times too. You can hear it in my music.
I guess too many assumptions are being made on both ends. Personally I would never question why somebody posted something or if they had permission. I assume all is well if it's made public. I have lots of rehearsal tapes that I've not ever made public. I have stuff with me and Bela Fleck but know him, he would never approve of that tape. I have stuff of me playing with Joe Satriani, it was public event but he asked that I not post it because he wasn't happy with everything. That's the same session you see me with Stu Hamm on youtube. My association with Peter Gabriel is another one that can't be posted to youtube.
I have lots of back yard party stuff of Howard Levy but I know he wouldn't want it out there so I will never be seen on youtube. I also have unreleased recordings made by Howard Levy and Little Walter that unfortunately I can't share. Hopefully some of you have acquired the Little Walter stuff as some of it is very very good. I have lots of stuff from Lee Oskar too but he's another person I know wouldn't want it up.
Anyway, I assumed you all would assume all is well on my side if I made it public.
When I put the camera out, I asked her if it was cool if I recorded everything. She said sure. I said if any is good enough it might end up on youtube. She said cool. She's seen them and doesn't object.
My comments about her are nothing new. It was clear in the room who is the more experienced musician. She admits she knows nothing and just plays what she hears.
I don't hide my feelings on anything, I never have and it's something that works for me. I am not her band mate or peer right now. I am a hired gun for this weekend and that's it. She's already offered more dates but I need to play with her for real before I can commit.
Its not easy playing with her which is the reason I posted the video to this forum. I wanted the members here to see how players handle ambiguous situations and original music. The younger players may very well find themselves in the same situation and hopefully will have more insight on how to deal with it after seeing how I dealt with it.
There are a couple of things for beginners to note... I figured out the key of the song in the begining and then switched harps to a position that I felt was more appropriate. There was considerable fumbling around on my part but there were some very nice moments. Hopefully some of you guys will see how I developed ideas.
Yes, I know I stomped all over her but I made it clear that I most likely would at first just so I could learn her songs.
Last Edited by on Feb 19, 2009 9:04 PM
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OEuropean
19 posts
Feb 20, 2009
2:48 AM
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Chris,
I've always appreciated your contributions to this forum, but this time you clearly went far over the edge.
When I saw your message, I first of all watched the video and I didn't know immediately what to think of it. But ... when I started reading your commentary, I was completely shocked, even before I saw the word "chick". I'll tell you why.
I have been playing with the idea of taking a few skype lessons from you. You assured us in the past that even a raw beginner (like myself) would feel comfortable sitting in front (via skype) of a master like you. That's something I felt important.
I therefore hope that you understand that my first reaction, while reading your commentary, was: How can I be sure that Chris is not going to capture me taking a skype video lesson from him and putting it up on YouTube or a forum and horribly making fun of me?
Your excuses are not to the point. Please be respectful to others! Nothing more, nothing less.
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Buddha
66 posts
Feb 20, 2009
5:17 AM
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Why are you guys making a big deal out of this. Again assumptions surrounding the circumstances are being made.
I don't make excuses. I deal in terms of reality and I live in the moment. If you can't play then you can't play, there is no dishonor in allowing the truth to surface.
Last Edited by on Feb 20, 2009 5:32 AM
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GermanHarpist
100 posts
Feb 20, 2009
8:34 AM
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"Its not easy playing with her which is the reason I posted the video to this forum. I wanted the members here to see how players handle ambiguous situations and original music."
Thats it.
And lets be honest, without any disrespect, she is a typical "chick singer". This is of course talking in stereotypes and I agree with OEuropean and Adam that "chick" is a lil macho and maybe from a past era.
But, didn't she call herself a "chick singer"? - You only feel insulted when you see it as an insult (think about it).
This thread started very interesting and ended up ***. Take it easy everybody and lets get back to harpin'.
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@OEuropean: "...putting it up on YouTube or a forum and horribly making fun of me.." ??? lol. Didn't you read his previous post...?
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http://www.youtube.com/germanharpist
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Buddha
67 posts
Feb 20, 2009
8:54 AM
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I know lots of woman who refer to themselves as chick singers. It's a term more than an insult to me. There's no disrespect intended towards her or anybody. She has a lot more going on than most of us.
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harpnoodler
38 posts
Feb 20, 2009
10:23 AM
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It never occurred to me that Buddha would have posted the videos if all wasn't cool. My reason for jumping into the fray was that I bristled at the 'chick singer' designation.
The implication is that we have some special knowledge of her singing or her approach to singing, not because she's a "New" singer or a "self-trained singer" or a "ballad" singer or even a "folk" singer, but because we're so damn smart, we can know about her vocals based on the fact that she makes eggs not swimmers.
We're guys, those of us who have been engaged in this thread, we're part of the group "in power" and we have set the norms for a long while. Because of this, we don't get to tell the people who've had the shit end of the stick what's appropriate or not when we refer to them, regardless of our intentions, however benign they may be.
Speaking now to the white guys, we don't get to let fly with the "N" word just because we hear a black man using it to refer to himself or his friends, right? It's not about being PC, that's something else again.
It's about respect.
And it's not a criticism of a person, it's a criticism of habits of speech and attitude. I'm no PC saint. I've a lifetime of homophobic, sexist, racist and other prejudicial conditioning that creeps out in my speech and attitudes and I'll take straightening out (though not always cheerfully) when it's pointed out.
ETA a clarifying clause: "regardless of our intentions, however benign they may be."
Last Edited by on Feb 20, 2009 12:38 PM
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Buddha
68 posts
Feb 20, 2009
10:38 AM
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what is so offensive about chick singer? Seriously.
I don't find it offensive at all. I didn't even know that some people find it offensive. Like I said I know lots of folks who call themselves chick singers. It's no big deal.
It's not I like said she was a hillbilly because of her southern accent. THAT would be offensive but to say chick singer? C'mon lets get real.
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Buddha
69 posts
Feb 20, 2009
10:57 AM
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I'm not a chick nor am I a singer so what's your point?
People call me arrogant, fatass, asshole...and who knows whatelse. I don't care. It's all true if you think so.
I'm also a badass harp player to some and just ok to others. So what?
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harpnoodler
40 posts
Feb 20, 2009
11:19 AM
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Buddha, my point is in my previous two posts and in your response. I've seen enough of your writing to know that you can see it, but I don't know if you will. That's not up to me.
I've said my piece on this subject.
I think you are one hell of a musician and I am humbled by the the virtuosity of your harmonica playing. When my musical ideas require a custom harp, I will buy one from you, if you're still taking orders from amateurs or semi-pro players, which I aim to become in the next year or so if the local music scene allows it.
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GermanHarpist
101 posts
Feb 20, 2009
12:26 PM
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Ok, I think what some of you guys don't understand is that buddha doesn't mean "chick singer" as any kind of insult. It is not even about her being a "chick" (which is kinda obvious). It is rather a certain type of musician:
There is no clear cut definition but I would say a "chick singer" is mostly* a girl who sings and plays guitar. Mostly some kind of ballades, some folk, a lil rock. (many feelings, many love songs :). Than it is also about what kind of musician she is (i.e. the way she learned the music). This is where it becomes interesting for us harp players that want to accompany her (and that btw. is the context in which the 'term' was mentioned before). She learns a couple of chords and quickly starts to sing and to write her own songs. She also works a little on her guitar skills (mostly chords) but spends most of the time working on songs and lyrics. This results in a rather 'intuitive' form of music comprehension and song structure.
You may have noticed that I don't say above that he or she is a bad musician and there is no sexist connotation. It is purely a description of a certain type of musician.
Check out YT and you will notice that there are a lot of girls that have in their tags or title the words "chick" and "singer" or even "chick singer" and that fit the description above. So if they categorize themselves in these 'stereotypes' why shouldn't we. Especially when it is (please believe me) not meant as any type of insult but purely as a mean of communicating with/discribing fellow musicians.
*as I mentioned there are also guys that I would easily discripe as "chick singers" - i.e. that fit perfectly in that stereotype. Again, I don't mean that as an insult but purely as a description - except of course if I want to challange their manhood :).
Buddha, please correct me where I'm wrong.
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http://www.youtube.com/germanharpist
Last Edited by on Feb 20, 2009 12:33 PM
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Buddha
70 posts
Feb 20, 2009
1:34 PM
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I spoke with several people today on this subject including Hope. Nobody I know thinks the term Chick Singer is offensive. Hope in fact labels herself as a country chick singer. To me, it's just a girl and a guitar.
As far as musicianship goes chick singer to me, has nothing to do with it. In general it's often difficult to play with artist who ONLY sing and have no musical knowledge. I know guys and girls that sing and know nothing else other than how it's supposed to go in their head. It's hard to play with anybody that is like that.
Chick Singer is not a derogatory term in my book, I don't find it insulting, no musician that I know personally finds it insulting and I didn't mean it as an insult. Perhaps there are regional definitions that define it as offensive but I am not aware of it.
I've referred to Annie Cohen as "that chick harp player" and she wasn't offended. Seems to me the only ones that are offended are the posters here that aren't even chicks.
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bluzlvr
123 posts
Feb 20, 2009
3:13 PM
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I you're offended by "Chick Singer", you gotta also be offended by "Chick Flick" and Chick Lit".
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oldwailer
519 posts
Feb 20, 2009
10:06 PM
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One of my favorite Chick Singer groups is the "Dixie Chicks".
LOL!! (Running, hiding--desperately seeking cover from the arrows and spears sure to follow)!!!
A chick Secretary of State? What is the world coming to? Just inches from a Chick President of the United States!!
(Ow! gotta keep runnin--gotta keep on a runnin--ain't gonna let em catch the Chick Midnight Rider)!!
hee hee!
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Aussiesucker
145 posts
Feb 20, 2009
10:56 PM
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Too many old roosters crowing now! Hey but its all good fun!!
The most offensive thing to do on this forum would be to refer to the harmonica as a "mouth organ". Really grates me when some of my ancient aquaintences call it a mouth organ!
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kudzurunner
287 posts
Feb 21, 2009
3:58 AM
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Whoa, Nelly! as they say. A forum participant emailed me last night, suggesting that this particular thread has pretty much wrung itself dry and backed itself into a corner. (The metaphors are mine.)
I believe in free and open exchange, but I agree with my emailer. My own feeling is that Chris has more than adequately addressed my original concern. Thanks, Chris, for your willingness to come back to the table and clarify; I'm impressed by your good temper. Others have certainly had a chance to make their thoughts and feelings known. Thanks for that, too. Now it's time to take a deep breath, everybody, and turn the page.
I'm locking this thread and trust y'all understand why.
Last Edited by on Feb 21, 2009 4:00 AM
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