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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Born to Stardom?
Born to Stardom?
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Preston
143 posts
Feb 18, 2009
3:17 PM
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I was thinking about how Buddha said the artist he recently sat in with was selling out shows at $10.00 a head and he was not. I also went and saw Jason Ricci and New Blood the other night at a bar and grill that only had about 50 people in it.
So what makes some people draw folks in and others (with obvious talent) don't seem to have as big of following? All of us here on the forumn know that Ricci and Michalek are two of the best harp players around. Yet (for an example only: I'm not picking on her) a young lady like Hope Cassity is selling out clubs when, while talented with alot of potential, her singing skills are not equivalent to Ricci and Michalek's skills on the harp.
I think Jason Ricci and Buddha probably have a massive amount of fans, but they are geographically spread out, and not all packing into one club on one given night, but this still bothers the shit out of me for some reason.
Another example: Last year I went to see Blues Traveler. There was a local band opening for them that completely rocked the house! I mean they had it all and the crowd was in the palm of their hands. By coincidence, a fellow co-worker of mine had gone to high school with these guys, and said they used to be better, but they had split up for awhile, and this was a reunion gig of sorts. I asked him why they split up and he said it was because they were never going anywhere or doing well, so they split out of discouragement. This venue WAS packed to see Blues Traveler: A jam band that hasn't had a hit on the radio since the late 90's.
So, are some people just born to stardom, or do they just have better a better booking/advertising agent?
Things that make you go hmmm...
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Blackbird
42 posts
Feb 18, 2009
3:54 PM
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I'm going to paraphrase music producer Jack Endino who was once asked essentially the same question. His response was pretty much that there's no way to predict which why any one group takes off, and another doesn't. Or if two similar groups get out, why one or the other fails or succeeds, or they both fail and/or succeed. Even with slick marketing machines and promo, or showing up as unknowns and winning the room. No formula yet has shown proof explain why this works in some ways, and others, not.
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Aussiesucker
135 posts
Feb 18, 2009
4:04 PM
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It probably helps somewhat if you happen to be a drop dead georgious female!
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Patrick Barker
181 posts
Feb 18, 2009
4:16 PM
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Lol stage presence? That's why I'm trying to work on mine- it could be a big factor- though Jason Ricci has plenty of presence.
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"Without music, life would be a mistake" -Nietzsche
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Philosofy
140 posts
Feb 18, 2009
4:46 PM
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I don't know about Chris, but I can comment on Jason. I love Jason's music, and he's a great guy. That said, the remainder of what I say may sound harsh. First off, as good as their music is, you're never going to hear it on the radio. Possibly on XM/Sirius Blues, but that won't get you national recognition. So when they tour nationally, you don't get much activity during the work week. Nobody will stay out that late to see a band they don't know. By jumping around the country, they might be planting some seeds, but they're not around to fertilize them or make them grow.
I would suggest that Jason find an area of the country and settle down there. Become a regular that develops a following. Jason will always be a superstar to the people that know harmonica, but most people can't tell the difference. He should mark his own turf, where he can make fans who are proud that their local boy is one of the best harp players in the world. That will get you steady gigs, and get some cash coming in.
I have a friend who did this in Providence, RI. He now sings for Roomful of Blues. But he got that gig by paying his dues locally. Had he tried touring nationally, he'd still be a garbageman.
I would also look at some older successful blues guys, and see how they did it. Charlie Musselwhite, etc.
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Chris Jones
27 posts
Feb 18, 2009
6:40 PM
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There is a huge demand for POP or shit as I call it. A sign of the times? Maybe Hope draws in American Idol fans?
Preston, you may of hit on something: Take a sampling of 1000 folks. How many like blues? How many like young JZ or or comparable "shit"? Geograpically spread out sounds realistic to me.
Hell, it's got to be rough for Jason out there. Just turn on your radio if you disagree.
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kudzurunner
285 posts
Feb 18, 2009
7:07 PM
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It has a lot to do with radio airplay. When Satan and Adam played their/our first gig after our first album had come out, it was the RiverBlues fest in Philly in July 1991. HARLEM BLUES had just been issued. Jonny Meister, the blues DJ on the local NPR station, WXPN, had been playing it like crazy, as had another DJ, Michaela Majoun (sp??). We got a big, enthusiastic crowd, and the crowd had an energy that was unlike any crowd we'd previously enjoyed: the buzz created by airplay.
We came back to Philly that fall and played a club called the Barbary. 150 for the first show and people were lining up in the street outside the club for the second show. The club owner was beside himself. He'd expected a blues act selling 85-100 tickets. This was the next step, and one he didn't often see. Jonny was playing us that night on his show; we hung out in my car between shows and listened to him play "CC Rider" from the album. When you taste that sort of minor celebrity, it's addictive. It's what radio airplay creates. It has nothing to do with the music per se. There's lots of great music out there. We made some of it, I'd like to think, but many people do. But what draws people out to clubs is an intangible, and radio airplay is--or was--absolutely key.
Here's another thing: Once you've had a hit or two, once you've blown up--as the Spin Doctors and Blues Traveler did--then you're always capable of summoning a crowd.
And if you've ever had a #1 hit, you're good for the rest of your life. You can tour every summer and play the sorts of venues that fill with people who remember what they were doing when your song was all over the airwaves.
Simon Frith has several great books about this. There are academics who belong to IASPM--eeeASP-UM, as they call it--which is the International Association for the Study of Popular Music. My buddy Dave Sanjek was past president. They have lots of theories to explain what makes for pop stardom, or subcultural stardom.
I've talked with Jason about some of this stuff. He, like Satan and Adam, appeals to several different audiences. He's got a harp-nerd audience, a blues audience, a punk/rock/jam-band audience (his guitarist Shawn was voted one of the top 10 guitar-guys by GUITAR PLAYER), and possibly a GLBT (google it) audience. The only one that could possibly blow him up really big is the rock audience; Jason Ricci & Co. as the next Blues Traveler. The harpnerd audience will always be there. The blues audience will slowly build as albums come out and gigs pile up.
Radio airplay is what takes you to the next level.
Last Edited by on Feb 18, 2009 7:10 PM
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harpnoodler
36 posts
Feb 18, 2009
7:59 PM
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If I had to bet money on who has a better chance of becoming a "pop star" between Jason and Buddha, I know hwo I'd pick in a flash and it has nothing to do with harp ability. They are both in a league where you have to be a very serious player yourself, or schooled enough in music generally to situate them in context to start parsing ability. I wouldn't presume to try. I like what I hear from both.
Jason's music may not currently fit the AM airplay format, but from what I've heard of "Rocket Number 9", at least half the tracks could be re-recorded -- if necessary--to play on classic rock, mainstream rock and/or hard rock stations. His band rocks, and hard, and all the other stuff Adam said.
I don't know how things are in the US and whether the GLBT attraction (if JRandNB get any loyalty from that demographic) would compensate for the macho tone of some of the rock/punk fan base.
Jazz is tough to play as a pro I think. I used to volunteer at some jazz festivals here in Canada and scary good musicians were losing auditions to people who would never be as good as they were when they were twelve because the jazz players didn't have "the look" or couldn't dance.
And even within the jazz communities I've been exposed to, only half at best know who Howard is, for example.
I can google IASPM and learn more but this:
"They have lots of theories to explain what makes for pop stardom, or subcultural stardom."
makes me wonder if Adam hasn't just boiled it all down to "Exposure".
Get a few TV spots, play some festivals, get airplay, get some videos out and the other variables may just fade into irrelevance.
I've been thinking about this tomight, because I've been listening to some recent albums by Big Dave Maclean. We don't produce many real bluesmen up here in Canada. By that, I don't mean people who can play blues. We have lots of good players.
Big Dave doesn't just play, he creates blues and has been for nigh on 40 years. It comes out his pores. He plays guitar, harp and sings authentically. His version of "Something on Your Mind" is __by far__ the best I've ever heard and that includes Buddy Guy's and James Cotton's. Big Dave owns it. But he's hardly a household name.
I wonder how many really great musicians there are out there, undiscovered?
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oda
25 posts
Feb 19, 2009
3:57 PM
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This is a very interesting topic,thanks for raising it Preston. I'm a university student, and I must say that my generation really isn't so hot. I can list our faults, but that's for another topic -- relevantly, the musical taste is so horrendous.
What the heck is rap? It's lyrics (shouted) over a beat. Anyone notice many of the big names don't even play instruments? So I guess to answer your question Preston, no I don't think it's being born into stardom but rather a mixture of:
- Teaspoon of publicity/Active promotion
- 2 Teaspoons of Radio/Television (music video) air play
- A SPOONFUL of coming at the RIGHT TIME.
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Tuckster
104 posts
Feb 19, 2009
4:53 PM
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - Hunter S. Thompson
If they only let bands on "American Idol". That show sums up popular musical tastes. No wonder good bands have so much trouble making it.
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Buddha
65 posts
Feb 19, 2009
9:22 PM
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Hope has a record deal so that helps a lot when it comes to publicity and drawing a crowd. She's also an attractive gal with a nice voice. I don't think she has "star quality" but she certainly has talent.
Though the years I have met many of the world's elite musicians and I can see that she has some of the same qualities in her that they have. But there is more to it than that.
Preston, you can't compare an instrumentalist to a singer and you can't compare artists in different genres. I've told Jason that he's playing to the wrong crowds but he's a blues man in his head and heart so it's hard for him to move into the jamband /rock scene where I think he'd be very successful.
As for me, I am adapting my sound so that it IS more pop-ish. There's nothing wrong with pop music and personally I kinda enjoy playing it. I'd bet a million bucks that if Janet Jackson et al asked you to join her band you'd do it and you'd be proud to say you tour with Janet Jackson. My current bassist is a prime example of a guy who hated certain musicians like Kenny Rogers. Then one day he got a call to audition, he was on the next plane to nashville. We're talking 70-80 when Kenny was a huge pop star. He got the job and recorded on a bunch of his albums. Now he's a millionaire. Do you think he still hates Kenny Rogers?
This music is business is more about WHO you know than anything else. The problem with Harmonica is there is such a low standard for us that anybody is good enough.
Over the past couple of years, I've met Joe Satriani, Peter Gabriel and members of their bands. I don't think any of them would remember my name now but at the time they asked me for my Cell number. In each of these guy's phone my number is/was listed as HARMONICA and my number was typed over who ever had their number in there before me. I quiped to Satch that he should use my name and he said "Brother, no offense but I won't remember your name tomorrow but I know if I want a bad mother fucker harp player I know how to get in touch"
At that moment I was good enough, I was the harp player on call. Who knows if I am still that guy.
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jbone
22 posts
Feb 20, 2009
4:25 AM
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i certainly agree with kudzu about airplay, it's a total trip to hear your name going out over the waves. a few years back i had a project going and we got a chance to open for bobby rush, well-known in some circles as a blues/folk/funk guy. bobby has been on the road for over 50 years. he definitely has a following. but due to shoddy promoting, the show was not packed although a couple of hundred people did come out. i had all of 36 hours' notice to get the band together for a thursday night show in a town where nobody had heard of us. on the way to the gig, the local blues dj plugged us. nobody from my local area could make it to the show on such short notice.
after that project came to an end- a few months after- i was listening to local blues radio, had just tuned in, and really liked the song that was playing. suddenly realized, it was ours!! i had dropped cds off at the radio station a year and a half previously and never heard word one from them. a new dj had rifled their cd cabinet and took a chance on the cd of ours that had ended up stuffed in there. and it was a rush to hear it, but bittersweet.
ace promotion is key i think. if you can get some connection to the masses via the press you have a chance.
my wife and i- jawbone and jolene, a roots/blues duo- have made some small inroads in clarksdale mississippi, just going and handing demos out and booking a joint or two. but none of our few shows have taken place in conjunction with a big event in that town, and crowds have been very light. a shame too since a couple of times we were really in top form! this may begin to change in april when we play a couple of nights at bluesberry cafe in clarksdale as a small part of the juke joint fest.
blues is not an easy slam dunk to get people out to see/hear, at least in this area. a big name or some connection to a younger, and maybe more pop, oriented audience is a good thing if possible. given that you have something they respond to when they hear it.
i have no big dreams of being well-known. for me it feels like it's late in the game. but the #1 thing for me is, doing what i love doing, and secondly maybe connecting with a few people at a given venue on a given night. those of us who are tied to a day job know how much effort and energy it takes to remain in the public eye even just locally. at some point you begin to be leery of yet another run through the local joints doing more promo to people who may have already blown you off as soon as you open your mouth. still, it's sort of a necessary evil and someone has to do it! and occasionally a gig does appear, and once on stage, everything conspires to remind me of why we do this music thing. it's for the few who actually respond to what they see and hear.
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Patrick Barker
206 posts
Mar 18, 2009
11:18 PM
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Hmm fascinating article-- to be completely honest I wasn't planning on dropping out of whatever college I get accepted to anyways, but the other advice was helpful and interesting.
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"Without music, life would be a mistake" -Nietzsche
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harmonicanick
195 posts
Mar 19, 2009
3:00 AM
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Frank Zappa said to the question 'why arent you as famous as Michael Jackson'
The answer 'because we're not pretty'
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