residenthooligan
5 posts
Feb 21, 2009
2:24 PM
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I need some suggestions. I recently started playing with a band that is pretty loud. The one guitarist has a Reverb Twin, and the other uses Peavy Bravo 112.
I play harp, melodica and keys. I have trouble amplifying the melodica and harp without getting feedback. When these guys crank themselves up, I can't even hear myself play. Right now I am running everything through an 8-channel mixer into a 15W practice amp which barely works for the keyboards, but I can't play the melodica or harps loud enough w/out getting feedback.
Anyone have any suggestions?
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harmonicanick
151 posts
Feb 21, 2009
3:03 PM
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I have been through this umpteen times!!
You have to insist THAT THEY ALL TURN THE ***K DOWN!!
Its as simple as that or it will cost you a lot of money in blown out harps..believe me your ears, and your survival, as a sensitive musician depend on it.
Do not compromise on this until you have the rig to blow them away.
Rehearsals should be understanding between you guys, if they cant hear your instruments or dont care ..should you be with them?? I'm sure they will understand if you explain concisely your problem...Good Luck and welcome to Band Politics:-)
Last Edited by on Feb 21, 2009 3:10 PM
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sonvolt13
6 posts
Feb 21, 2009
4:22 PM
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If your amp has a line out, you could run it through the PA to get more volume. If it has a speaker out, you could run the amp through a direct box into the PA to achieve similiar results. All that being said, I agree with Harmonica Nick that the ultimate solution is for everyone else to turn down.
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residenthooligan
6 posts
Feb 21, 2009
6:14 PM
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Thanks for the tips guys. Regardless of whether we turn down, I still do need an amplification solution - the practice amp sounds bad.
I don't really want to spend more than $500-$600 but I can if I need to. I almost bought a KXR-100 the other day. They wanted $180 for it, and when I looked up the value online, I decided to return to the store a few days later and buy it. Unfortunately it had already sold.
For both harmonica and melodica, I run it through an analog delay and use a crystal mic. In my "studio" I have everything going through an 8-channel mixer through a solid state amp and basic speakers, the tone is clean but I like it.
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Bluzdude46
24 posts
Feb 22, 2009
2:39 AM
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Try getting a seperate amp for the Harp. When you run things through multiple stages (mixers do pre amp I believe) you increase the feedback possibilities exponentially. Less is more. As far as line outs there are two theories here. Some believe it's a good idea that a line out offers a chance to go to the PA without a mic to pick up random sound and feedback loops. However, Speakers are a big part of the sound of an amplifier for good or ill. Using a line out make the PA speakers your ultimate sound output and they are much harder to get that nice blues breakup. you can use a small 5watt tube amp mic it and get enough volume for monitor and still get the break up of a smaller speaker to mic to the PA for volume.
You have a whole other crowd that says screw it use a 59 Bassman, Harpgear HG50, or a Sonny Jr 410 and that cures all ills.
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Bluzdude46
25 posts
Feb 22, 2009
2:41 AM
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Add to the previous. At a seminar Adam did in Frederick MD he told us of a great mic made by Shure that was best for mic'ing the amp I forget the model#
mebbe he'll catch this post and refresh my memory
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eharp
214 posts
Feb 22, 2009
7:07 AM
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this might be a good route-
http://hunterharp.com/ampset1.html
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MrVerylongusername
160 posts
Feb 22, 2009
9:26 AM
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Here are a few of my thoughts...
The KXR100 you mentioned is probably going to work well for the keyboards - it's clean and loud, but with the harp and melodica you'll still have feedback problems with it if you stand in front of it (it is essentially a self contained full-voiced mono PA)
This is the root of your problem - trying to use one amp for everything is not going to work. It sounds like your combo works OK for keyboard, so keep it as a dedicated keyboard unit.
For the harp and melodica, I think buying a multieffects/amp simulator like a POD, V-Amp or Digitech unit might be a better option and send a line out direct to the main PA mixing desk.
The other alternative is to buy a second amp for the harp and melodica (Bluzedude is right, using the mixer to go into one amp is adding too much gain. Gain is the cause of feedback). If we look at your existing setup, you've got a crystal mic (hi gain) into a stompbox (adds gain) into a mixing desk (adds more gain) and then into the amp (adds even more gain). Yikes! no wonder it squeals like a pig!
Why are you using a crystal mic for the harp and melodica? The reason to use a crystal mic is to get an overdriven sound, but the kind of amplification you've been talking about won't give you that. If you want a clean sound, I'd recommend changing your mic to a low impedance vocal mic. This will help your problems with feedback.
I guess we really need to know more about the sound you want and the gear your band already has. Trust me though, you had a lucky escape not getting that amp. It will only have made problems with your existing setup worse.
Last Edited by on Feb 23, 2009 1:16 AM
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jbone
24 posts
Feb 22, 2009
12:07 PM
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whatever you do for the keys and melodica, i'm from the ballbuster harp amp set. i have a '59 replica that will smoke on stage if necessary, and it's modded to break up nicely at low volume, so that's that. i can survive well on a 2-guitar stage most of the time.
the real concern for me is still why turn up so dam much? for years i messed with different bigger amps trying to find the right one to work with volume junkies and was largely UNsuccessful. i had my best times with like minded band mates who didn't want to sell hearing damage. one memorable outfit i got involved with, the biggest amp on stage was the bass player's. the drummer knew enough dynamics to hit well but not crack windows. the 2 guitars and me all had 15 watts or less and if needed we miced to the p.a. to get the sound out.
everyone you talk to i8nsists that tone is the key to good blues sound, yet for years i mostly saw srv wannabees with 50 to 100 watt amps for their guitars.
if you listen to the old guys you hear a lot more dynamics than raw power or volume. big amps are actually for big venues while most musicians i know play medium to small rooms. and a big amp player will insist that they need to turn up to get the tone right.
i personally would much rather bring out my single 12, 15 watt silvertone than my 40 watt bassman. but if i know i won't be heard i have 2 choices, stay home or be heard.
i am never afraid to step up to a vocal mic but that works best if you can tweak the channel for harp and keep it separate from an actual vocal mic for vocals. a nady bullet or greg heumann-modded sm57 is a good option for blowing throguh the p.a. also.
possibly you can convince the band to turn down. chances slim imho. more likely you can have steve clark at sligo amps dot com build you a deluxe or a bassman modded for harp for a very good price and use a p.a. mic for melodica, and a bigger amp built specifically for keyboard.
i have walked away from several bands over volume issues. my hearing, what i have left of it, means a lot to me. i don't regret the bassman, it's one of the 3 best sounding amsp i've ever owned. but it's ok to not use all you got too.
my favorite gigs are low volume, even all-acoustic street gigs. much less complication that way.
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bluzlvr
124 posts
Feb 22, 2009
2:37 PM
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When the other musicians I'm jamming with start getting too loud, I'll turn my amp down. I might have to do a song or two and not hear a single note I'm playing, but usually the other musicians will notice and turn down. I've found this to be an almost foolproof method and if it doesn't work, I file it under the heading of life's too short.....
There's a real art to playing at low volume. If you're in a working band, you might land a gig in a restaurant where you HAVE to play at a lower volume.
Last Edited by on Feb 22, 2009 2:38 PM
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harmonicanick
153 posts
Feb 22, 2009
3:01 PM
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My prob bluz is that I live up stairs (beautiful house, great view)
Anything heavier than a fender blues junior...I cannot carry it up!! Coming back home late after gig is a nightmare especially if I've had a few! You know what I mean..
i want a bassman but I cant carry it!!
I guess it's miced up thro' the pa for me as always..
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residenthooligan
8 posts
Feb 22, 2009
7:55 PM
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Cool thanks guys. We don't really have a PA system at the rehearsal location, I'll just suggest we turn down a bit. Hopefully with the combination of turning down and the feedback eliminator should do the trick.
I have an SM58 that I tried for the harp, but I couldn't actually get that as loud as the crystal w/out getting feedback. I'll take a look at the SM57 and see what the differences are.
I've been using Hearos ear plugs at practice, which one of the band mates recommended and they are pretty great. They don't affect the sound quality much and let you keep your hearing. I like the idea of using a smaller tube amp then running it through the PA. I am going to try this.
Last Edited by on Feb 22, 2009 7:56 PM
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