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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Advanced Novice seeking help
Advanced Novice seeking help
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Stank Breath
1 post
Mar 02, 2009
12:16 PM
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For the past two years I've been playing a Hohner Blues Harp, I really love it and I can get a real good cajun style sound from it. But I've recently been interested in buying a new comb in a different key that would give it a more raspy, smoky, bluesy sound. What would you recomend?
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MrVerylongusername
180 posts
Mar 02, 2009
12:27 PM
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A Blues Harp should do all of that. Maybe a lower key might help, but it sounds to me like you need to work on technique more.
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Stank Breath
3 posts
Mar 02, 2009
12:41 PM
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I am aware that the Blues harp is very versatile and two years of daily use can teach you a bit about its intricacies, so I take some exception to your comment.
If you want to post give me a straight answer.
hey this is an edit. Sorry for being a jackass! :)
Last Edited by on Mar 02, 2009 4:42 PM
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Preston
164 posts
Mar 02, 2009
12:59 PM
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Stank Breath, I see you have only 3 posts, so I'll start off by saying welcome to the forumn.
Maybe more info from you to add to your question would help us out so we can better answer your question.
What key of blues harp do you currently have? For example, I play blues harps and I think when I'm playing 2nd position on my key of D it has a "Zydeco" sound to it up around the blue third and 4 draw. However if I am really conscious of my tone, I can play on the bottom end in third position and make it sound just like my A harp in Second position, which, in my opinion has a low smokey tone. I really don't care for harps much higher than D because I can't get that tone we are discussing from them. So in this instance the key may be a factor to your question.
I'm sure Longusername didn't mean any disrespect and neither do I , but I believe his reply to you was fairly accurate with the info we were working with.
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snakes
120 posts
Mar 02, 2009
1:06 PM
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Dear Stank,
Agree withh Preston that MrV is a good guy. His posts can be very helpful. Without trying to add to your consternation have you pondered just going for a Marine Band? If you look at some previous threads on tone quality the Marine Band seems to win the "crunchy" blues tone award for a large portion of this community. You are hearing this from a person who prefers to play Suzukis...
Welcome to the forum and I hope you find it as helpful as I do. I love your forum name! Reminds me of my practice sessions after a cigar and some Basil Hayden bourbon.
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Stank Breath
4 posts
Mar 02, 2009
1:22 PM
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I have heard my brother's Marine band and it does sound good in the key of C. But I own high E blues harp and I honestly love it, and I love tinkering with my harmonica so I wouldnt mind getting a lower
keyed comb that I could trade back and forth, but what I really would like to have is a deeper, more guttural sound sometimes. I'm not sure what the best key would be for the job though.
BTW didn't mean to offend Mr.VL, you seem to have quite a fanbase :p
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Stank Breath
5 posts
Mar 02, 2009
1:25 PM
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Oh, and thanks for the welcome Preston!
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isaacullah
61 posts
Mar 02, 2009
1:45 PM
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Hi Stank Breath, welcome to the forum! One thing that would be helpful to us is if you could let us know better what your experience level is. Can you bend notes? If so, what notes can you bend? It seems like you have only one harmonica. Is this the case? It also seems like you are playing in the middle register in first position (that is: taking the key of the harmonica as your root note in hole 4 blow, and using the major and minor scales that are "built in" to the harp).
If you want to sound "bluesier", then I would tell you that you gotta learn how to bend notes! Simply put, it does not matter what brand or key of harmonica you buy, if you want to sound "bluesy", then you have to be able to bend notes down to get the "blue notes" which are not built into the harp. This is true for playing in all positions, but is especially true for second position ("cross harp": taking 2 draw as the root note, and playing 5 halfsteps down from the key of the harmonica).
The advice to get a marine band to sound bluesier is sort of true and sort of not true. If you can't bend, then even a marine band ain't gonna make you sound bluesy. But if you already can bend and know the blues scale, then the way that the marine band is tuned will give you a more "classic" blues sound because your chords will be stronger, and some of the notes you play in second position will be tuned slightly lower than on other brands of harps.
I know it's kind of "crappy" answer, but the truth is that you just really need to practice more. In this sens, Mrvlu was trying to help you. Perhaps the way he said it came across "Simon Cowell"-like, but just like Simon usually does, he was giving good advice...
Take advantage of the free vids Adam Gussow provides us on YouTube, and also consider to purchase some of his excellent begginer's lessons that he sells on this site. You'll really be glad you did.
One more thing, you also should cinsider buying at least a C harp, or an A harp. They'll be a bit easier to learn some of the blues stuff on than a high E harp will be.
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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isaacullah
62 posts
Mar 02, 2009
1:53 PM
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Oh, and not to sound nasty, but your use of the term "comb" is not quite technically correct. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems like you used "comb" to refer to the whole harmonica. A harmonica "comb" is just the wood or plastic body to which the reedplates and coverplates are attached. It is possible to purchase replacement combs of differning material (wood, metal, plastic, acrylic, composite, etc.), and there is a very active debate about how and if differnt comb materials affect the tone of a harmonica. However, I do not think that this is what you were asking about, correct?
Just FYI, there is no such thing as a "lower keyed" comb because it is the reeds in the reedplates that are "keyed", not the comb itself. You CAN get replacement reedplates for your Blues Harp that are of lower key than your original harp, but I don't think this is what you want.
I think you probably knew these things to some degree already, but the terminology you used makes it seem otherwise. My post here is not to make you feel bad, but to help nip these things in the bud to save you any future embarassment from folks who are not quite so polite as those you will find here. No hard feelings, and again, welcome to the forum!
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Mar 02, 2009 1:56 PM
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Aussiesucker
164 posts
Mar 02, 2009
1:59 PM
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Hi Stank and welcome. You say you are 'an advanced novice' so I guess this equates to the level you really believe you are at? There is a wealth of info on this site incl the page 'What Level Are You'.
The difficulty with the harp is that with some techniques, playing styles(positions) & even genres one can consider themselves to be really advanced. However in other areas we can be rank beginners.
One harp, daily use over 2 years does not tell us a lot? How much daily use ie 5 minutes or 5 hours & playing what?
IMHO an E harp is not the best choice for an advanced novice. AFAIK the E harp would be amongst the least used ? Harps in keys of C, Bb or A would I think be better and in any case if you are really serious about playing you will need more than one harp.
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Sirsucksalot
26 posts
Mar 02, 2009
2:43 PM
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just get a whole Harmonica (including the comb) in every key.
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MrVerylongusername
181 posts
Mar 02, 2009
3:36 PM
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@Stankbreath
No offense meant and none taken! Sorry if I came across a bit Simon Cowell (that made me laugh out loud).
Yeah, it was a bit of a blunt answer, so apologies and a belated welcome from me.
Along with the idea of a lower key...
Work on your tone - fatten up your sound by making your mouth bigger. Tilt your head back and drop your jaw. Yawn as you play and you'll hear a whole new sound coming out of that harp as your mouth and throat resonate like the soundbox of a guitar.
How's your vibrato? - a good throat vibrato can beef up your sound. Work on it. 20 years of playing and I'm still working on mine and I don't think I'll ever stop!
These are all things that especially compliment 2nd position playing with its emphasis on the draw notes - so if you're not playing 2nd pos. yet, work on that.
If you pucker, try to learn to tongue block at least a bit as it can sound less airy - especially from a less experienced player - and those octave splits sound great.
Softer playing can actually make it sound gutsier - Listen back to the great amplified players. Listen to Little Walter - the mic is doing all the work! He's actually playing really softly and deliberately, fractionally flattening the draw notes giving the harp a hornlike sound and far more headroom for volume dynamics. Learn to make the 3 draw growl when you bend it - it's easier if you're not working the reeds flat out all the time.
Even when playing acoustically - creating a tight, airtight seal around the harp can give you a kind of natural compression effect, loosening it with some hand movements gives a different contrasting sound. Watch the Youtube clips of Sonny Boy II - he's the master of shaping his sound with his hands.
So plenty of ideas for you. Please try and remember that the bulk of this mysterious thing we call 'tone' comes from the player. As someone said in another thread, the crappiest $3 harp in the hands of one of the great players would probably sound infinitely better than most of us playing the best custom instruments. Please resist the temptation to blame the harp entirely. Maybe a Marine Band might sound slightly crunchier, but IMHO (for what it's worth) if we all stopped chasing the "magic harp" and devoted the same energies to developing natural tone we could make any harp sound better. I don't make any claims to be a great player and I'll freely admit where my own weakness lie. Nothing wrong with continuing to work on your playing, there are players of all abilities here - from absolute beginners to famous, world class professionals - but each and everyone of us is still learning something
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Stank Breath
8 posts
Mar 02, 2009
4:36 PM
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Let me try to answer all these questions in no particular order: I'm capable of bending keys 1-6 fairly well, and I usually practice at least 2 hours a day. In addition to my blues harp of E, I own two big river harps of C and A that I use occasionally. I'll admit I may be a bit ignorant about the inner workings of the harmonica, but I DID just want a wooden comb. I do tend to play somewhat softly because I play and practice for myself to relax, I'm working on a passable vibrato and I have been working strongly on lip, tongue, and breath work on all of the keys, which in my opinion is helping my sound hugely(this is how i achieved that twangy cajun sound I mentioned)and I promise not to chase the magic harp :)
Thank you all for your input, much of it was very helpful. If I didn't answer a question you put forth, feel free to point it out...or bitch me out.
And thanks for not being assholes about this, especially mr.verylong
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All the best music has already been written by guys in wigs and stuff.
-Frank Zappa
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Miles Dewar
208 posts
Mar 02, 2009
8:00 PM
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Stank, stay with the Blues Harps....I use em, Love em, but i mostly play Lee Oskars...(the plastic comb allows me not to completely scab up my lips)...but...My Blues Harps are my "Down 'n Dirty Harps"....and my favorite key is "F".......its not referred to as the "Bluesiest" key harp.....
you just have to use the characteristics of the harp.
Before i got through most of Adam's vids, i had only my "F" harp...and i would do a lot of quick stuff. Then i saw a video by Adam where he says that the "F" harp is really great for fast repetitive stuff.
I didnt know that when i was doing the fast stuff, it just felt right to do that on that harp. When i got my "A" harp, i slowed down drastically.
every key harp has its differences as well as every brand. just try em out and use them however you feel they "Should" be used.
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---Go Bears!!! (Richard Dent for Hall of Fame)---
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