Oisin
121 posts
Mar 02, 2009
1:38 PM
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Hey chaps..can you help?
On one of Adams early videos...maybe even his first one, he shows us his rig set-up and he is playing through 2 amps at once using a signal splitter which splits the signal from the mick and sends it to each amp...hence the name I suppose!
Anyway I asked our local music shops if they stocked them and the best they could offer me was a mixer which started at about £60. Can't really afford that.
I have tried on ebay and even googled it but I can't seem to find signal splitters anywhere, except for ones used for video signals. Any idea where I can get my hands on one of these or are they called something else?
Oisin
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isaacullah
63 posts
Mar 02, 2009
2:05 PM
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Hey Osin, yes, 60 pounds is WAY too much. They were probably trying to sell you some sort of fancy active signal splitter with discreet buffer circuits for each line out. Technically, you can use a passive splitter that is as simple as wiring two output jacks to one input jack. These kind of things are found easily and cheaply at your local electronics store by going to the headphone/ipod section and looking around for a mono-to-dual-mono splitter or a stereo-to-dual-stero splitter. You won't want a stereo-to-dual-mono splitter (when used with a mono input, only one output channel will feed thru). In the states, I got mine at Radio-Shack, but I'm not sure what an equivalent store is in the UK or Europe. You should be able to find one for a pound or two. You'll probably only find them in 1/8" jack sizes, but look around and you might find 1/4" sized ones. I use some 1/8" to 1/4" mono converters on mine with no problem.
A step up is a passive mixer that will use a resistive divider to help prevent "back-flow" of signal from one fork up the other. This is not strictly nessecary for splitting an output signal to two amps, but it serves the dual purpose of doubling as a "mixer" where you can take input signal from two sources and combine them before inputing into one amp. I'm an elctronics DIY guy, so I just built one from component parts, but you can get a good one from Berhinger that also has a DSP reverb for $25 US.
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Mar 02, 2009 2:19 PM
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isaacullah
64 posts
Mar 02, 2009
2:17 PM
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even though this is a stereo to stero splitter, something like this would work for mono as well (one channel would just be unused). It's also cool that it has dual volume control on each output. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3268770
This one is basically what I use: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2272476 It works just fine for mono output as well.
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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superchucker77
137 posts
Mar 02, 2009
2:32 PM
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Just ask your music store for a male 1/4" to two female 1/4" y-cable.
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Brandon Bailey
Superchucker77's Youtube
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Oisin
122 posts
Mar 02, 2009
2:45 PM
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Thanks Guys...we have a store here called maplins which is the same as your radio shack...I'll check this out asap.
This forum always finds the answers!
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Oisin
123 posts
Mar 02, 2009
2:52 PM
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That took 2 minutes to find! and it's only £1.99.
Here's the link for any of you UK amp twiddlers
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=44080
Many thanks Isaacullah and Brandon.
Oisin
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Buddha
82 posts
Mar 02, 2009
3:04 PM
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two amps at once or one amp at a time with two on stage?
I've played a few gigs were I used my earth pounding pro-bass rig with 1450w and then would switch to my bassman for a ore traditional sound.
I did it with an A/B switch box. My 10band EQ box can do this too.
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SPANKY
16 posts
Mar 02, 2009
3:26 PM
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all you want is a simple yplug that's what adam was referring to in that video . he called a passive signal splitter , but another term for it is Yplug . you can get for as cheap as 2dollars . i paid about 30 dollars for mine but you don't have to spend nearly that much. eric clapton used to use the same exact thing to run multiple amps off one guitar.
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bluemoose
35 posts
Mar 02, 2009
4:22 PM
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I use a Line6 Echo Park pedal for slap echo tape delay
as the last unit in my chain. It has stereo output built
in (as well as stereo inputs) Two birds with one stone.
moose.
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isaacullah
65 posts
Mar 02, 2009
5:31 PM
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Oisin!
I checked your link, and you are getting the dreaded stereo-to-dual-mono splitter! THAT WILL NOT WORK! It will send the right channel of the stereo input to one mono output, and the left channel of the stereo input to the other mono output. If you have a mono input, however, only one mono output will feedthru, and the other will be shunted to ground (ie. no sound comin' thru)!
If possible, cancel your order, and make sure you buy either a mono-to-dual-mono splitter, or a stero-to-dual-stereo splitter. The former are a little harder to find, but any splitter intended to "share" to two sets of headphones is the latter (these are often called "headphone splitters"), and then you are okay even for mono use.
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Mar 02, 2009 5:32 PM
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Zhin
132 posts
Mar 02, 2009
5:49 PM
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Hey Buddha,
I couldn't help but notice you mentioned the 10band EQ box... would that happen to be the MXR one? I saw one for sale and have been thinking about picking it up. Opinions?
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Buddha
84 posts
Mar 02, 2009
6:13 PM
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yep that's the one.
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Oisin
124 posts
Mar 02, 2009
7:15 PM
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Hey Isaacullah...is this what you mean?
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=989&&source=14&doy=3m3
This is stereo to stereo so I hope it's ok.
Don't worry as I haven't ordered it yet. There is one of these shops near to where I live so I was going to pick one up from there, BUT...tell me if this is the right one man!! And thanks for the warning!!
Oisin
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Oisin
125 posts
Mar 02, 2009
7:21 PM
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Buddah...I'd like to play 2 amps at once, a fender champion 600 and a little vintage valve amp which was originally used for a record player "stereo" extension speaker (converted to take a 1/4" jack). Both have slightly different tones and I think they will sound good together.
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Zhin
133 posts
Mar 02, 2009
7:44 PM
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Buddha,
Thank you for the immediate reply.
I'm assuming if you use it, it should be good for harp/mic/amp setup. And knowing you, it's not for feedback control. ;)
Are there any ifs and buts (or coconuts) if I decide to use it for tone shaping.. for blues? I'm assuming it should be good regardless but just in case, if there's anything I should know please do share.
I think I'm gonna go down the store and try one tomorrow. They're being sold for 20% off.
Would like to hear a real opinion from you about this if you can. Please.
Thanks again Chris!
BTW - how much do you charge for Skype lessons?
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Last Edited by on Mar 02, 2009 7:48 PM
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isaacullah
66 posts
Mar 02, 2009
8:40 PM
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Oisin
Yes that's the one you should go for. It'll send both the left and right channels of the input stereo signal to both left and both right channels of both stereo outputs. This is fine also for mono use because each output will still get the "hot" signal.
FYI: A 1/4" guitar or a 1/8" headphone plug is also known as a "TRS" plug. This stands for "tip ring sleeve" plug. When you look at stereo 1/4" plug from the side, you'll see exactly that: the tip, then a black non-conducting band, the ring, another black non-conducting band, and the sleeve. The sleeve always is the ground. The tip transmitts one channel, and the ring the other. A mono plug will only have a tip and a sleeve, no ring. In a mono jack, the sleeve extends into the area that is occupied by the ring in stereo pluc. If you plug a mono plug into a stereo jack, the ring will be shorted to ground. If a signal splitter is spliting stereo left and right into two seperate output mono channels (like the first splitter), then when a mono input is supplied, the tip gets fed thru to one output, and the other output, connected to the "sleeve", is actually now being sent the ground. In the second splitter, the input ring is being sent to both output rings, and the input tip is being sent to both output tips. If you plug a mono in, then the tipe is still connected to both outputs, and regardless that both rings are grounded, a mono signal is still passed thru.
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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isaacullah
67 posts
Mar 02, 2009
8:44 PM
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By the way, I also use a converted "stereo" valve amp. Mine's a 1950's or early 60's "Concord" brand reel-to-reel tape player that I converted. I removed all the tape reel mechanics to lighten it up, and then "circuit bent" an input jack in where the tape head connection used to be. It sounds great when I double it up with my little 7-100 pignose. Check out some of the recent vids on my YouTube channel to hear how this sounds...
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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isaacullah
68 posts
Mar 02, 2009
8:52 PM
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Here's the mixer I was talking about. It won't split output signals, but it will combine input signals into a singal output. Cool thing is that is an adjustable reverb/delay effect too. At 28 USD that's way less than almost all echo/reverb pedals will set ya (except the danelectro fab echo), so it seems like a steal! I haven't used it, though, so I can't confirm that it sounds good...
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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Oisin
129 posts
Mar 03, 2009
1:44 AM
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Isaacullah....you are a wealth of knowledge...this is just the kind of technical know-how I'm sadly lacking.
I love tinkering with amps and mics but I'm learning the hard way. Thanks for all this info. I might have another question soon about replacing capacitors on one of my old amps...can you help with that kind of stuff man?
The amps sound awesome by the way..the playing was magnificent..just like it says on the packet.
Oisin
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isaacullah
71 posts
Mar 03, 2009
9:01 AM
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Yeah, I can cetainly give you some advice about caps. I've been tinkering with electronics for a few years now, and recently I've been into building my own amps and effects. There's kind of a steep learning curve on this stuff, but it helps to have a place to ask questions. This forum is great for this, but also I go to the stomp box forum and the solid state guitar amps forum regularly. My user name in those forums is darwindeathcat (don't ask, it just is!), so if you are interested in other harp-related electronincs that I've built/have discussed building, you can do a search on my user name in those forums.
Cheers,
Isaac
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Mar 03, 2009 3:17 PM
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Buddha
86 posts
Mar 03, 2009
11:41 AM
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Zhin,
I used it to shape my sound. from 2004-2006 I was very much into playing prog rock and sounding like a guitar. At times, I used the EQ to overload everything to create distortion and I also would have it set so MIDS were very high to get that shredding guitar sound.
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Zhin
135 posts
Mar 04, 2009
1:50 AM
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Buddha,
That pretty much was exactly what I wanted to know right on the dot. Thank you very much.
Everyone else,
I use my Digitech Digidelay pedal for signal splitting. It does the job really well! You can switch off the delay and just use it as a splitter. Both channels are constantly on even when pedal is switched off (as long as there's a battery or an adapter connected to it and switched on at the power source)
There are several other pedals from different brands that do the same thing. So if you happen to be looking for certain types of effects pedals you can consider foregoing purchasing a y-splitter which is exactly what I did.
The advantage for me is that it keeps the signal strong (well, as strong as the pedal can) as opposed to thinning it by using a passive splitter. Less crap to lug around too (every bit counts when your gig case is stuffed to the brim! lol).
Just a suggestion.
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bluzlvr
131 posts
Mar 04, 2009
1:33 PM
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It's funny that this thread got started because I was just thinking about signal splitters as I had an old amp returned to me that a friend borrowed years ago. It's an old Gorilla solid state practice amp with one 10 inch speaker in it.
I was wondering what it would sound like hooked up with my Roland Micro Cube.
Now, thanks to Zhin's post, I just realized I could use my Ibanez AD9 delay with the dry out to hook up both amps.
Now I have to get to a place where I can crank it up....
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Zhin
141 posts
Mar 04, 2009
7:04 PM
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By the way, sometimes, I believe certain people deliberately use a passive y-splitter instead because they WANT to thin the sound out a little bit.
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isaacullah
78 posts
Mar 05, 2009
9:10 AM
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Hey Zhin,
Just to clarifiy what you say a bit. SOME "passive" splitters thin tone, others will not. What is the difference? Well, some use a "resistive divider" (a network of two equal value resistors) to prevent signal "backflow" up the other "Y" branch of the split. This kind WILL have an effect on tone becasue these resistors "resist" the signal that are passing through them (they are small value resitors so they don't resist much, but they do resist some). These types of splitters include most A/B/Y boxes you'll find on the market, and also include passive "mixers" if used in reverse (ie to split rather than mix).
The kind of splitter Oisin is purchasing, and the kind that I use DO NOT have a resistive divider network. In fact, if you were to strip off all the insulators, you would see that these "devices" simply have the "hot" connector of the two output jacks both wired directly to the "hot" connector of the input jack, and all three grounded commonly. In this case there will be NO tone thinning becasue there is nothing "resisting" the signal. These kinds of splitters include most of those meant to use with headphones and such, and are usually quite compact.
By the way, if you are considering to buy an A/B box to use as a splitter, make sure that you are really purchasing an A/B/Y box! An A/B box uses a switch to send signal to the A output OR the B output (or take input from A OR B), but can't "split" the signal to both. An A/B/Y box will have a switching setup that will let you send signal to A OR B OR both.
A "passive" mixer uses the kind of resistive divider network I described above, but usually also uses variable resitors (potentiometer) on each input lead so that you can adjust the signal level before it is "mixed" across the resistive divider network. This kind of mixer can be used "in reverse" to split rather than mix a signal. An "active" mixer does the same thing except that it some sort of of amplifying device following the resistive divider that recuperates the losses to the signal created by the resistors. Some will use "opamp" type chips for this, which may have negative effects on tone. The best will use FET type transistors in a simple single gain stage or a gain stage followed by and impedance-lowering buffer stage. Either way, to keep distortion as low as possible, these active stages usually only have a gain of 2 or 3, but some will allow you adjust the gain so that you can boost the signal a bit. In any case you can't use an active mixer "in reverse" becasue of the active stage, which is not "reversable".
Cheers,
Isaac
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Mar 05, 2009 9:16 AM
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Zhin
143 posts
Mar 05, 2009
4:57 PM
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Excellent info Isaac. Thank you for clarifying all the technical stuff!
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