I have a request/suggestion for all you harpfriends forum members. I am really interested in hearing what people do with Adam's full-blown MBH lessons. I try to learn from them a couple of ways--
1. Obviously, I just learn the lesson as he presents it. But it's unsatisfying to just learn the intro to a song, or maybe the intro and the first 12 bars, which is often what Adam includes. I'd like to be able to play the whole song, not just a snippet. So--
2. I tab out (or at least work out) all or part of the rest of the song. Of course, I'm lazy and don't have all that much free time, and would love for Adam to tab it all out for me. But I think Adam may intend for us to do this, with the idea that it improves our ears and harp skills to do it yourself. I've done it for a number of his lessons using the Amazing Slowdowner. A couple of great examples would be Adam's lessons on Big Walter's "Have A Good Time," And SB Rice Miller's "Help Me," because they have multiple harp solos and great comp'ing parts.
3. I also sing along. Curiously, I think playing the harp has improved my singing (of course, I sing really poorly, so it's a really low bar there. I mentioned this to my son the other day, and he fell to the floor laughing.)
4. I also want to take the basic lesson Adam presents and then improvise on it. Frankly, this is largely aspirational for me right now, I really need to build up way more skills to do this successfully.
So my request is for folks to post videos of what they do with one of those "handcrafted" Gussow lessons. I thought I would start a new playlist titled "Gussow MBH Lessons," but there's already a playlist titled "Riffs from Adam's Lesson"--so please help satisfy my curiosity and post something to Riffs! I've recently screwed up enough courage to post a few videos there. I bet we could all learn a lot from what we do with these lessons.
Doesn't sound like a bad idea. I have been kicking around the idea of playing some of my original 12 bar blues I've written over Adam and Charlie's Jam tracks. What is the legal/copyright infringement ramifications of those jam tracks and/or a snippet of Adam's original lesson on Youtube?
That's a good, touchy question, I'm not an IP lawyer, but it strikes me that the fair use doctrine is surely applicable. It may be ok to use a small portion if we accept the premise that we are students of the harp and using it for instructional purposes. I don't think there's any law about how much you can use--it's all facts and circumstances. I think we see Adam wrestle with this all the time when he uses snippets of original recordings in his lessons. In fact his usage is probably as decent a marker as any you wish to use.
Of course Adam also owns the copyright to his own materials , don't know about the jam tracks (Hilbert and those Dutch guys). I wouldn't presume to assume that Adam grants us permission, and I'm not sure it's even fair to put him on the spot and ask him. But if he's willing to share his views that would be great.
Only other consideration would be the YouTube terms of use, I'll leave it to you tto parse through that.
Given the flamethrowing on the recent Steve Baker thread, hopefully this will not become too controversial a subject!!!
Last Edited by on Mar 03, 2009 11:21 AM
I'm not quite sure about the jam tracks but to use Adams YT lessons should be no problem.
Otherwise, Hollistonharper, I think this is a great idea. I have exams at the moment, but when I have time I will work with some gussow lessons and post the results.
Since my YouTube lessons are hanging out there in the public domain, free for all comers, I have no objections to anybody making any educational use of them that might occur to anybody. Just don't bundle and sell them! But feel free to create videos that involve playing along with the video/audio or audio tracks.
The MBH lessons are proprietary materials. You'll notice that I don't sample entire recordings of other people's music on YT; I pick and choose; I always urge people to purchase the original.
I very much like the ideas that Holliston harper puts forward. They're what a dedicated student of the harp should do. I can't do all the work in the lesson; I explain what can be explained as clearly as possible, but I don't try to do ALL the work. That doesn't educate.
Since I'm selling tabs of the opening choruses of the lessons, and tabs of some difficult solos, and since those, again, are proprietary materials that I've worked very hard to create, I obviously don't want people trading and posting those. Is it really possible to trade tabs of everything BUT that stuff? Sounds to me like we're flirting with that borderland. I'd rather not open that can of worms. It's sure to lead in the direction of: here's EVERYTHING Adam plays in his lesson on "Help Me" (for example).
Put yourself in my position. I started this forum because several people asked me to. I believe in the free and open exchange of ideas. It would be pretty ironic--bluesy, even--if this very board became a place that helped undercut the integrity of the quirky little harp-instructional business that I worked hard to create.
Sounds like I'm saying the following: feel free to do absolutely anything you'd like with my YT videos except resell them. Feel free to post any sorts of ideas you've had for working with my MBH lessons. But please don't start posting tabs based on those lessons. And please don't make YT videos in which you jam along with full-length cuts from the two set of jam tracks that I offer for sale, or with the MBH videos.
I hope you'll put yourself in my position as you're evaluating possible uses. Believe it or not, I strive to behave in an ethical manner. My expectation--and only rarely in harp circles has it been violated--is that fellow harp students will conduct themselves the same way.
Last Edited by on Mar 03, 2009 11:47 AM
Let me make another suggestion for an extremely constructive way in which you guys could use this board.
Why not pick a classic harp song or solo, by mutual agreement--something that I haven't done at MBH--and then have everybody go off and try to tab it out, using my general style of tablature? Post THOSE tabs; compare them; talk about them. Maybe designate somebody as the official scribe, or scribe-for-a-day. Make it their responsibility to come up with the best-of-all-versions tab.
Adam: I see what you say about tabbing down your lessons. If you did part of that yourself than it should be left to that (i.e. the tabs should be bought).
However, why not let people play to the jam tracks (and post it)? See it this way: If the material is properly credited and linked it is free publicity. Harpists can see what others did with the jam tracks and if they like the style eventually buy the tracks themselves. Thats how the web2.0 business works: publicity, publicity, publicity...
(its not as if they can be used as jam tracks once someone played on them.)
But of course it is your right (as the copyright owner) to decide on these matters.
Well my position is that I don't want to step on Adam's toes. I was thinking the jam track as a backing track would just help me keep time and count the 12 bars through the riff I was trying to demonstrate. I never thought about it being ripped off by someone else who could record it without making the original purchase from Adam's library.
I view the harpfriends channel as a place where you can go and say "I'm just starting out, I'm not an expert, but I wanna show you what I got and bounce ideas around with you guys and gals."
While I think expanding on Lessons Adam has already given is a great idea for us learning, I'm not entirely sure it is in good taste. But again, that is just my opinion.
I think this whole issue may not be the best idea in Adam's interests.
I second Preston's position on not stepping on Adam's toes. Apart from the nominal couple of dollars that flow Adam's way, we are completely on the receiving end of this relationship. So, for example, while I would feel that I am entitled to share my own stabs at tabbing with anyone I'd like, I very willingly will not do so out of respect for Adam and the problem of the slippery slope.
Hopefully I haven't opened a can of worms here. I was just thinking people might post vids of themselves playing and expanding on a lesson. I wasn't thinking of using backing tracks or sharing tabs, but it just goes to show how hard it is to control things---I assume that's what Preston means when he says the issue may not be in Adam's best interests (not sure what you meant by not being in good taste?)
So Adam set out some really clear running rules, and if anyone is willing to post something under those guidelines I'd be really happy to listen and learn from it. If things go bad I'm sure we can self police, or just can the concept.
As far as Adam's follow up suggestion--I did a tab of Got My Mojo Working, using the 1956 Muddy Waters cut off of the '47-72 Anthology. Adam has not done an MBH lesson on this, although a recording of it is on the Hilbert jam tracks. I'd offer it up as a starting point if there's interest and if I can figure out how to post an attachment. (I'll also probably need to take some time to make it presentable). I have limited skills and I'm sure it's really quite basic. But I know that what I learned from it was that I really wasn't hitting the bends properly. Imagine Pat Boone or Perry Como singing this song--that's how I sounded to myself. So I think the song is deceptively challenging. Hopefully people will post other song suggestions.
Lets do it. I like this Idea. Should we make this like a frendly competition where we pick a song, and everyone takes cracks at it? Do Whatever part we can do...and Discuss certain "Subtleties" about parts of the song.
I'm Down Lets start a thread on HarpFriends now.
--- What should we name it?
---------- ---Go Bears!!! (Richard Dent for Hall of Fame)---
If you want to take on the great Nat Riddles, prepare for some serious woodshed time. I have been tabbing out and learning the intro ( which goes for about 2 1/2 mins) to Nat Riddles "My Baby She Left Me". Ive basically got the notes down, I've got the timing pretty right, my tone is pretty good on it, but getting the power and motion of Nat is impossible.
When you listen to it, it doesnt sound too hard, but it has taken 3-4 weeks of solid work for me, I'm talking 2-3hrs a night. Its also a bit harder because of the quality of the recording. I'm happy to post my tab if anyone is interested. The work is well worth it though, this is some of the best playing you will hear in my view. Someone said if you want to build a house first youve got to pour some concrete.
As one of the two guys who started Harpfriends i'dlike to second Preston : EVERYBODY that is using the Harpfriends channel should respect Adam's point of view,i actually have no doubts it will be that way.
Could someone from the channel write this rule in the page presentation on the channel ? I don't have time right now ,and english is not my mother tongue ,i want to be sure that every body will understand what we mean. I think it is a brilliant idea to challenge each other on a song that Adam hasn't covered.
Maybe we should make a harpfriends contest. Entry fee could be 1$ .We run the contest one month, after the month is past we vote and the winner gets a harp related price for the money we collected .Maybe i'm going to far but it could be fun . I don't recall how many invites i sent to the channel but we're more than 50 ,we should be able to offer a new harp to the winner. Think about it,you could get a new harp for a buck and learn a new song .
Having just taken a look at the Harpfriends channel, I must say, I like it. Good work, everybody.
Look, as long as the channel stays private, I'm OK with the idea of you guys posting videos in which you play along with the two sets of MBH jam tracks at full length. Obviously if you're doing that, it would seem that you'd actually purchased the jam tracks, and that's fine. Remember: there are other sites offering free jam tracks. You can always use those. But I trust the the word "private" means that these videos are for the MBH community, broadly speaking. If you want to join the club and post videos of yourself playing along with Charlie Hilbert's guitar, spend $8 and buy the d--n jam tracks. :)
Tryharp: I'm thrilled that you're investing that sort of focused time in Nat Riddles's music. He'd be thrilled, too. Yes: try tabbing out NR's music, guys. That's a great first project.
This whole idea is taking off very nicely, I think.
I'm in--for a start, why don't we choose a contest that doesn't include any real need for advanced techniques--for instance, overblows--just in case there might be somebody out there who can't do them. ;-)
Just to kick around another idea--we could do a contest based on original music--I could upload a basic guitar track of a slow blues for example--then everybody could take a shot at the title for an original slow blues jam.
Taking apart a Nat Riddles song is a great idea too.
Somehow, we need a way to make a decision that is agreeable to everybody.
oldwailer, good ideas. Let's start with a slow blues.
tryharp, I see what you mean. I just wanted to throw Nat Riddles into the discussion because thats definitely a musician worth studying. But maybe its not best to start with the heavy weights, concerning this. And yes, if its not too much an effort, I would very much like the tabs. Cheers.
All of this sounds interesting. I like many others on this forum, need incentive such as this to jump in and post a video. A slow blues sounds like a perfect place to start, and Oldwailer is well qualified to provide the backing track. Thanks!
OK! I'll get the track up within the next couple of days--in the meantime--you might want to look at this vid--I'll be using it for a model for tempo and such. The Key will be E--just like the video.
The guitar I do won't sound anything at all like this--I play a Piedmont style--it'll just be my basic "Snowflake Blues" in E--so-called because it will never be played exactly the same twice. . .
Last Edited by on Mar 04, 2009 3:57 PM
I want to respond to the assumptions you made in your last post about how private the harpfriends channel actually is. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but a truly private youtube channel--where only members can view videos--is limited to 25 members. Since harpfriends has more than that, we are not set up as private--basically anyone can find and view videos. posted to the harpfriends channel if their search term includes one of the tags embedded in the video by the poster. So while only harpfriends members can post to this channel because we've all been given the password, anyone who searches for "Mojo" on youtube could at least in theory call up the Mojo video posted to harpfriends.
Just want to make sure you know what you are approving.
Also just want to say that although this has gone in a different direction than I had started out with, original music is a great idea and I'll definitely give it a shot too.
So there is no way of making the videos private...? I removed the disclaimer. Cheers for pointing that out. ---------- germanharpist, harpfriends on Youtube
I tried it a while back. When you tick private, you then have to select who can view it, and they all must be your friends, and you can only select 25 people. ( it was a while ago, it could have changed now ) When you select them it automatically sends an email alerting them that they have a vid to watch.
No there is a way. I'm not sure how effective it is, but here is how we can do it. Set a video to private, and then when another member logs in as username Harpfriends with the password, click on "videos" (it is a dropdown option when you roll your cursor over the screen name in the upper right hand corner). This will take you to a screen that all videos are shown with all their information.
This way, one person can post private, and anybody with the password can go in and see it. Like I said, I don't know how effective this would be, and I don't know what Youtube's servers would do if 40 people all logged in at the same time from 40 different IP addresses, but it is one solution.
Well, I made a track that we can try for a slow blues. I apologize for the quality--but I just didn't get time to get real fancy and dig out the mixer and all. I also made a few mistakes, but I know how you harpers love to make the guitar player look good!
Be patient--it takes a little while to get started. . .I think you have to click on the "Free User" thingy--then click to download--if this doesn't work I'll figure out something else. . .
Rapidshare had some problems during the day. But it finally worked.
Nice work. The track is very (very) cool.
I would elaborate a little but I'm sick lying in bed. Let this be said: the first thing I will do once I'm back on my feet is jam to your track (can't wait :). Thanks.
That is an awesome jam track, my friend. Thank you.
Has anybody decided when is the deadline on this little competition? One week? Two weeks? Shall we shoot for posting videos by Sunday the 15th of March? That gives us this weekend, all week, and next weekend to work on it. Is that too long? I'm just thinking about the guys who work 40+ hours a week and have a family to hang out with too who may not have alot of woodshedding time in the day.
i like the idea of a two week deadline. When we start the competition, we should start a new thread where we can post our vids/soundfiles for reveiw by whoever is judging it. By the way, who is judging it? Adam? or a panel? (perhaps like American Idol, LOL). But seriously, we have to decide this before people start posting. ---------- -------------- The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
I've been doing some messing around with the track that I made. I think the guitar is way way too busy in it. I'm going to leave it there for whoever might want it--but I plan to make a much simpler version this week-end and I'll get that posted too.
It is difficult for me to just sit and play back-up with no vocals or anything--so my fingers start making shit up--they don't know that the intent is to have the harp carry the real meat of the music--I'll have to re-educate the little buggers a bit to keep it a BACK UP track. . .
BTW--my subscription to fileshare.com runs out on the 19th--so get em if you want em. . .
Hey Old Wailer. That makes sense. I was fooling around with it a bit today, and I kept feeling like I was stompin all over the guitar rather than playing along with it. Of course that probably has a lot more to do with my inexperience as an accompanying harp player than the track. It's a (really) fantastic track, but I think you are right that something a bit simpler would be best for this competition... Especially for folks like me! :) Thanks for doing this, we all really appreciate it!
Well, it took a little longer than I expected, but I have gotten the new slow blues track posted--with more work, it could be a lot better track--but this is what I had time for right now.
It's more just back-up guitar without the long runs between chords. It starts off about two measures late in the 12-bar progression--I was listening to James Cotton's Slow Blues while I made the track.
Last Edited by on Mar 14, 2009 9:21 AM
It's OK by me--I don't know that a real deadline was ever generally agreed upon anyway--just to throw one out--how about the 31st of March? That gives us all two weeks and three days to do our worst. . .
Just downloaded the track, sounds pretty good (1st one was good too, but a little hard to play along with) Hope I can find the time to really sit down with it. Great job Wailer, thanks! ---------- DutchBones Tube
Hey Oldwailer, I've been working on my playalong with your track (it's really great!) by "overdubbing" my harp part in Audacity. I cut off the parts at the end and a little bit of the begining where there is no playing. If you don't mind, I can post the edited backing track as an audio-only "movie" on the Harpfriends YouTube channel. That way, it's a bit more simply and easily available to those who want to opt in on out little contest... I was considering to get a new youtube play list started on Harpfriends for folks' submissions. I could just use the backing track as the first "video" on that playlist, then start a new thread on this forum, embedding a playlist player like I did for the "lick of the day' playlist. Let me know if it's okay with you if I do that, and I'll do it ASAP!
(PS. I figure getting a new thread going for the contest is something that we should do anyway!)
That's just fine with me, Isaac--it sounds like a good idea. I had cut the front of the recording off myself, but I posted the wrong file--so you'll just be cleaning it up a bit.
