Hi all, above please find the embedded YT player for a new playlist I started on the harpfriends YT channel. The first "video" on the playlist is an audio-only track of the backing guitar track Oldwailer kindly provided for use in this contest.
Contest rules as I see them so far are as follows:
1) Record a video of yourself playing along to the backing track.
2) Upload said video to harpfriends, by March 31st (EDIT! the new dealine is April 30 !). Make sure you add it to the correct playlist (called "harpfriend's playalong contest"_ so that it will be included in the above player
3)Somehow a winner will be chosen. (EDIT! ADam and Chris will chose an over-all winner and perhaps a few runners-up. Forum members will also vote on the submissions and a "members choice" winner will also be decided). First prize is bragging rights.
So any ideas on how to judge the contest? Should we just open it up to forum members, and let everyone pick their favorite? Should we ask some of the more advanced players to be judges? Suggestions? (EDIT! see below for judging and voting details)
Also, if you are not yet part of the "harpfriends" channel, and you want to be (whether or not you want to submit a vid for the contest), just ask here to be sent the login info for the harpfriends channel, and one of us will send it via YT mail.
Hi Isaacullah,I just spotted this and got all excited but i can't seem to access Oldwailer's backing track is there a problem at your end or am i just being a pillock!
Last Edited by on Mar 18, 2009 1:35 PM
Okay, I think I got it fixed. Apparently YouTube doesn't support direct upload of mp3 files. I made it into a little "movie" with a nifty harmonica background... Should be working as soon as YT processes the upload... ---------- -------------- The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
I'd suggest extending the deadline, say, until the end of April, or even longer, to allow more time for people to work something up (including courage) to participate. I've never posted a Youtube video, so even that is a hurdle to get over. Just a thought.
I second what mr_so&so said - even though I haven't got the means to upload a video, apart from a cheap mobile.
As to judging it, how about everyone has a say who wants one. I mean, even if we can't all play like pros, we've still got a rough what's good and what's not. What do you think? ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
I like scstricklands idea. I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel harpfriends is a jam camp I don't have to drive to and rent a hotel room for. I don't want to accidentaly ruin it by everybody getting too competitive. (maybe that won't happen anyway, I don't know.)
As far as the guys who need to work up the courage to post, maybe this will ease your pains knowing that we don't get too carried away with who the winner is.
I don't seem to suffer from getting in front of a camera, so I probably can't give you the best advice on how to get over it. But think of it this way, everybody I've seen that's posted videos so far is a beginner. We're all here to get better, so try not to get all jacked up about wether you are good enough to post a video. Just do it. If anything you are going to come away with a laundry list of things to work on/improve on. Either from the constructive critisism of a post, or from going back and watching yourself a couple of days later.
Can I just ask--does everyone agree that Oldwailer's track is the right one for the talent pool here. I haven't listened to isaac's edited track yet (most of the time I'm posting from my phone--pardon the typos) but I don't recognize the track as a standard 12 bar blues with a I IV V progression. I like it but will find iit very hard to play to it.
For comparison, Dutchbones just posted a link to some backing tracks that are very recognizable to me as having a traditional blues form.
No disrespect intended to OW-kick appreciate his efforts--just wanted to throw this out there andcsee if others had the same reaction.
Hollistonharper, I hear what you're saying. But, I think those strange little kinks make it a bit more of a challenge to sound good with; they made me think like hell, anyway. By the way, nice playing, oldwailer. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
There's one problem. I saved the song on my computer. I recorded it and it was vey quiet. When i used the recorder to raise the volume I had to raise it so much that it made crazy distortion, and when it did kick up, it felt like my speakers would blow.....
Is there a way we can get it louder, without distortion? You guys have any ideas? Besides that that was a pretty groovy track Oldwailer. ---------- ---Go Bears!!! (Richard Dent for Hall of Fame)---
The track is a standard 12-bar progression, as far as I know. It does start off being a couple of measures short on the E coming in--but the rest is standard.
I recorded this as a multi-track while listening to James Cotton's "Slow Blues." It is just a very slow 12-bar in E--but it is played Piedmont style, which is apparently not as familiar to most of you--which is understandable--Piedmont has never been as popular as Delta blues.
I am not defending the track in any way--it could be a 17 1/2 measure blues--it's just how I have played blues for about 45 years. I am totally willing to go with whatever is decided. I like the tracks DB posted too. I would actually prefer a more up-tempo beat myself.
Miles--I can blow my speakers out with the track--louder than I need--I don't know why you are having a problem with it.
There were also about 60 pretty good back tracks posted recently by somebody else--they are from a college somewhere and full rights are released to the user--right there in writing on the site (don't remember right now where it is). One of those could be selected.
I would be willing to upload a few tracks in MP3 format to Fileshare--just the ones I like the best--then everybody could have a choice of whichever they want--but I ain't gonna upload the whole bucket ful--the file is way to big.
Let me know if this would help--there are many other ways to do it. . .
Last Edited by on Mar 19, 2009 12:08 AM
Oldwailer, your song seems to be a standard progression to me as well. I have to admit I had to listen to it a couple of times, but I think it is just your style like you said. The short progression at the start was a little tricky, but a standard 12 bar blues kicks in at about 1:00.
I myself prefere more up tempo songs, but I find this a challenge and it's all about challenging yourself to make yourself better.
Hey all, thanks for weighing in. It seems pretty clear that there's no groundswell for changing anything so I'm good with things as is. Oldwailer thanks for ID'ing your style as piedmont--I'd heard of it but really was not familiar with it. I think I'll try to track some down and have a listen. Can you recommend any artists?
One possibility for judging would be to have me and Chris M. judge them. We could watch them independently, take notes, then have a Skype talk and hammer out a winner and two honorable mentions.....
My exams are nearly over, and Im looking forward to getting back into harping and practicing for the challange.
I think oldwailers backing track is not really ideal for this first challenge. Although it sounds rather simple I think it is actually a very difficult jam to master. It is very slow and very long (already the intro is 12 bars...).
While it is a challenge for some people it is a barrier for others.
So I would suggest that we choose another backing track for the first challenge - i.e. one of the university tracks that ow mentioned (can someone post the link to the files - or ow uploads some that he likes... thanks :).
This doesn't mean that oldwailers track is off the table, just thought that for the beginning we should choose a simpler backing track that everybody can have a go at. We could set the deadline maybe two weeks after we decided on a backing track... as a start.
I would leave oldwailers backing track in the game though. We could have the deadline for end of April, so everybody has time to practice.
Another thing: ow, your backing tracks are very cool. I've been listing to your first track for a while now. I love how it takes 6 minutes to develop. Somehow reminds me of phish. However it is probably one of the most challenging jam tracks I have every played too.
Here is a backing track that I would recommend (if it had no copyrights... which it has ;).
---------- GermanHarpist
138 posts
Mar 19, 2009
11:33 AM
I like the "Members Choice" and "Pros Choice" rating system.
Members Choice and Adam/Chris's Choice(s) sounds like a very fair and nice way to do it. It'll keep it "competitive" without adding too much stress to it...
Also, While I am very happy with OW backing track, and have already started developing my playalong for it, I would be perfectly willing to change to another track if that is the consensus. Right now I see two requests to change the track, and three or four folks who seem to think it's okay as is, but who wouldn't protest a change. I suggest that if someone feels strongly about changing the track, they should pick one they prefer and post it here by the end of next week. If there are no new suggestions, then we use OW's track. If there are multiple suggestions, we will then quickly decide which one is best, and use that one.
We'll set the contest end date for the end of April as everyone seems to suggest. Then while Adam and Chris confer about their choices, we will have a period of perhaps two or three days where forum members can say who they like the best (no voting for yourself!), and we'll use that for the "people's choice" winner.
I've been attempting to play alomg with OldWailer's backing track and finding it quite difficult to find a groove. I'm especially having a hard time around 2:30 into it. I like the track, but I must agree that it may not be the best for the different playing levels we have here. Sorry, OldWailer,its nothing personal,I thought it was great and appreciate the effort you put into it. Just don't think its simple enough for this "contest".
I'll try and join in if I can but just thought it would be neat if after the competition, Adam and Chris could show us how they would have approached the task and show us how it should be done. Be nice to get an expert opinion.
Actually, I like Wailer's track for the very reason that it's a little different. It'll give the most intuitive players a chance to try and figure out something, a place to differentiate themselves, if you will
I'm looking forward to listening what people come up with (if it is in fact used). Either way I think it's a great idea. But for the record, my vote is for OldWailer's track.
We seem to be on the fence about Oldwailer's jam track. Personally, I don't like it because it doesn't fit my style, but I love it because it has challenged me to come out of my little box.
Here's a thought: Since Adam has been gracious enough to take time out of his busy schedule and judge our little contest, why doesn't he pick the back track?
Please, dont make it too complicate. It would end as an other thing. I understand this idea, as if i`m going to a party, somebody is playing guitar very well, and its my turn to make a fine session with him, with the level i´m on. It does´nt depend on how great my technical knowledge is, more, what i do with the music i hear. We got to listen, then we`ll find our own expression. I`m very prying for the different songs that will come out of OW`s playing. I´d like to join you with OW`s proposal, even it`s not easy. It gives time enaugh to freak out or stay brave in tune.
I'm happy to go along with oldwailer's track. Sure, ther's a lot of time to fill there, which requires some skill to make musical sense out of but, it is a competition. Anyway, if I can get my own lack of video recording equipment sorted, I'll be happy to go along with whatever is decided. This whole thing is exciting and great fun. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
WOW! A world class judging bench and everything! This is getting cooler by the minute!
I have no personal ego on the line here at all--I don't think I have ever played a blues as slow as this track before in my life--it was a real effort to keep the tempo that slow.
Just don't think anything you decide about this track will offend me, because it won't--for me, it was just a 5 or six minute jam with Cotton's Slow Blues playing in the background--I probably do about 200 of these a month just for the fun of it--some are good, some not so good.
Holliston, You asked for some info on Piedmont Blues--here is a good place to find out about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piedmont_blues
Sometimes I've heard it called "Country Blues" or "Ragtime Blues." I would differentiate it from the more popular "Delta Blues," as far as guitar is concerned, by saying that Piedmont is more melodically based--whereas most Delta music finds a rhythmic groove, which is where it really lives. I love both styles equally--I'm just more skilled in the Piedmont style.
Sonny Terry & Brownie McGee are good artists to listen to for this style--as are Cephas & Wiggins--My main man in learning to play was Mississippi John Hurt--who was from right in the middle of the Delta--but his playing is distinctly different--alternating bass--melody on the trebles--mostly non-12 bar progressions, although you can discern the 8-bar being used a lot--but highly buried in his melodic syncopation's--which is just to say that the turn-around is generally not as pronounced.
I have heard the argument that MJH is not really a bluesman at all--but a folkie--I think that is absurd--but it's just an opinion.
If you find and listen to Big Bill Broonzy's "In the Evening When the Sun Goes Down," You'll have the general model of the kind of music that really grabs me the most. Big Bill is another hero for me--he kind of bridged the gap--playing Delta 12-bar stuff with a very Piedmont approach. The styles are very moixed--probably every finger-picker I ever knew who does blues would know songs from both camps.
If you get a real burning interest going here--check out this for the story on Delta Blues and it's artists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Blues
That's the end of today's lesson--you touched on something I have had a 50-year love affair with--so of course I gotta expound a little!
Here's an old MJH standard that I actually learned off an old 78 with a wind-up gramophone that I found in the garbage!
Dammit ##%?!!, looks like Chris M. is going to judge. I was going to try and get away with warbling through the whole thing, thats that idea out the window!!! Back to the drawing board.
Better work out what the bloody hell this twelth position is all about! :-)
Hey Oldwailer, thanks! Great information, great video. I'm inspired and will check out your sources, and will also try to jam to your track.
I like Isaac's and Germanharpists suggestions and move to make them contest-big kahunas to make the executive decisions. Their qualifications are they are young and motivated. Is there a second to my motion?
Chris as a judge? Awwww mannn!! That's it, I'm out. This is just so hard! I'm not going to even bother then... KIDDING!!
:p
I don't think Adam will be any more nicer or meaner than Chris if you guys follow what I'm saying.
They both are highly qualified, and they know how to judge based on WHERE you are coming from. How long have you been playing, etc etc...
Now, if you claim to be the shit, the best, the most awesome... Yes, they will chew you up in pieces. That's the only time they will judge mercilessly.
I think it would be awesome to have them BOTH judge.
@isaacullah: "Members Choice and Adam/Chris's Choice(s) sounds like a very fair and nice way to do it. It'll keep it "competitive" without adding too much stress to it..."
Sounds pretty damn good to me.
@Zhin: "I think it would be awesome to have them BOTH judge."
Couldn't agree more. We're lucky to have that kind of expert opinion. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
Holliston - I second your motion - if someone is not charged with the power to make some hard, tough, merciless decisions, deciding on the track might take til the end of April.
I most graciously and humbly except the duties hereby bequethed to me by the sensible members of this venerable forum, and will forthwith commence with my duties! ;)
In all seriousness, I'd be glad and honored to take a point position on this thing. If you can't tell by now, I'm quite excited by the whole proposition, and I'm already ready to do what it takes to pull it off!
So, I guess what it seems like for now is that we are going to stick with OW backing track. It's a SLOW blues, but I confirm that it IS a 12 bar (but has a non-standard lead in). Folks will have until the last day of April to make their video (that should leave plenty of time for folks to get at least SOME practice in before making a video for submission). The song will be challenging, but will therefore force us to be as resourceful as possible. I think that this levels the playing field a bit too, so we are all on somewhat unfamiliar territory. I also feel that the results of our individual efforts will be better and more interesting becasue of it.
Adam and Chris can then confer as Adam proposes (if they are both down to do so), and choose their favorite and perhaps a couple of runners-up (maybe things like "best use of space" and "nicest tone"?). I also still think a Member's Choice award should be done. When the contest date is here, I'll start a new thread, and people can just write in their favorite as a post. All forum members can vote, each getting one vote, and at the end of a three day polling period, the votes will be tallied, and the Member's Choice winner proclaimed.
If any one seems to be having issues with the backing track as posted to YouTube, I've posted the track as an MP3 to my website at this link. (OW, if you're not cool with this, let me know and I'll take it down right away)
FWIW, I'm using Audacity to do my harmonica over-dubbing. It's a free multitrack sound recording and editing suite. There are some initial issues you'll encounter with latency of the over dubbed tracks (non-overlay of the time signatures), but these are easily corrected. If you choose to use Audacity and have latency problems, let me know and I'll point you to an easy solution.
Isaac, No problem--you can wallpaper the Net with the file.
One question--you said you are using Audacity (Which I used to use before I got a computer with Vista--now it won't work). I have similar softwares--I usually use Reaper--anyway--does that mean that we are posting MP3 files somehow? I can do that just fine--but I had understood up until now that we were going to post video submissions on YT.
I'm glad you are going with OW's track. Even though he says he does it all the time, it was very nice of him to go to the trouble, and not only that it is a great track, it will sort the men out from the boys........only problem is I'm a boy.
This is way early in the process I know, but I'm just offering an upfront thanks to issacullah for taking this on (overall point man), and to OldWailer for already getting a backing track up and running.
You guys are an inspiration to somebody who has put the harp down for a while due to hitting the wall/frustration (at a level way below where I had hoped to be right now).
Not sure if I'm submitting an entry yet, as I have no recording gear of any kind and have never even made a YT video. But if listening to OldWailer's track has made me pick the harp up again and try to figure out something to play to it, then this whole thing has been worthwhile for me, even before the contest starts.
Either way it will be fun to see what people come up with.
Singing allowed? yes - no... my vote is ney... can't sing. + As it is a harp competition singing would be more of a crutch. ---------- germanharpist, harpfriends on Youtube
