TO PRODUCE A FAT TONE (lip pursing or tongue blocking):
1) Drop your jaw to increase the size of the resonating cavity inside your mouth
2) Become aware of any tension you're carrying in your diaphragm--your belly area. Release it. Let your belly bell outward, Buddha-fashion. (I'm talking about the original Buddha, not our friend Chris.)
3) Spend some time every day, as RJ Harman does and Magic Dick advocates, just working on your sound. Become aware of the many overtones (harmonics) that are a part of it. Become aware of what the fundamental tone sounds like.
4) If you're playing amplified, experiment with different hand positions and make especially sure that you've got a tight seal between the harp and your hands.
5) If you're miking your amp, place the mic about 2/3 of the way out from the center of cone, so that it's closer to the edge of the cone. Angle it away from the center of the cone.
TO THIN OUT YOUR TONE AND CUT THROUGH THE MIX:
1) Jut your lower jaw forward and go "wheeee" as you draw on the 4 or 5 draw.
2) Cultivate an awareness of how the fundamental tone and overtones (harmonics) are blended in the note you're playing. Strive to increase the upper harmonics by adjusting your tongue-position and the configuration of your mouth. Listen for the treble edge and work it hard.
3) Open your hands wide
4) If you're playing amplfied, turn up the treble enough so that it's noticeable. Avoid a "brown" sound. On larger Bassman-style amps, turn down the bass control.
5) Also re: amped playing: loosen and/or open your hands so that air circulates around the mic, the harp, and your hands. Think "thin and aggressive" as you do this. Think "cut through."
6) If you're miking your amp, place the mic directly in front of the cone, at a 180 degree angle to the fabric. In other words, front dead center on the cone.
Last Edited by on Feb 26, 2010 5:31 AM
That is a very helpful post for people in both camps. Some great advice and information there for sure.
Much of it I did already know, but a couple of things you mention in both sections I didn't really ever think about before. I'll be sure to utilise them from now on though.
Buddha's point about visualizing the tone you want to produce, so to speak, is very true. In a sense, you're yearning towards it, shaping your whole musical body (not just your mouth) in the direction of it.
Also: if you want a bassier tone out of an amp, especially out of a small amp, put it on the ground. If you are having a hard time cutting through the band-mix, especially with a big amp, put the amp in a chair.
If you REALLY want to maximize the bottom end of an amp, put it in the corner of a room--i.e., not against the back wall of a club, but against the back wall AND the side wall where it joins the back wall. This is called "corner loading" and it's a basic principle of electroacoustics.
Here's somebody talking about corner loading in connection with where to place subwoofers in a home theater system:
http://www.avguide.com/review/atlantic-technology-10-csb-corner-subwoofer
Last Edited by on Feb 26, 2010 5:55 AM
This link offers an excellent basic course in loudspeaker placement. Pay special attention to the section entitled "Speaker placement in relation to room boundaries.":
Also the section entitled "placing subwoofers." It says the following, which is something every amped-up harp player should attend to:
"There is no argument among audiophiles that the greatest bass output from a subwoofer comes from corner placement. The natural megaphone-like flaring outward of walls from a room corner focuses low frequencies as we indicate in our discussion of main speakers — giving them no place to go but toward you."
Last Edited by on Feb 26, 2010 6:06 AM
I think, when reading advice on how to get "the fattest tone", it's always instructive to listen to the music of the person giving the advice. You know... to see whether they actually have a fat tone.
...of course aside from Chris's statement "Despite what Dennis alleges, there is no difference in overall tone between TB and Pucker. There is a difference in style and that's what most mistake as being part of tone." (honestly, I was expecting I would have to answer something else, which is why I kept checking back here while shoveling this darn snow!)
I'm not mistaking a style difference with a tone difference. There IS a difference. Maybe other people may have made that mistake (with either style or approach) but I am talking about an actual difference in tone, not recognized by just myself, but dozens & dozens of students & players I know as well.
This is not to say that I can't get my LB tone to sound somewhat close to my TB tone, and vice-versa (and one can get a full tone while LB), but there is a difference. And you couldn't just say something to convince me, you'd have to erase what actually exists (the difference) to convince me & many other players I know, even plenty of LB players I know. This group of players I'm referring to includes professional & amateur TB & LB players alike.
Everything else you said is great and I agree with, same with Adam.
Phogi, Tone is difficult on the harmonica. That's both why I love it and hate it. I love it because it can sound so many ways. I hate it because it is so difficult to get it sound the way I want.
Maybe try working with Dennis, like I suggested. As a music teacher, you must appreciate what a teacher can do for a student. ---------- Tin Lizzie (formerly addict)
We've got a full moon incoming in two days, and, like clockwork, the forum is suddenly percolating with all sorts of creative energy, some of which involves foundational disagreements but all of which show us to be members of the International Brotherhood of Harp Maniacs. Civility is a good thing, even so. May we all continue to be civil, even as the great Luna in the sky ticks towards fullness!
--Resident Lunatic
Last Edited by on Feb 26, 2010 9:07 AM
What both Adam and Chris makes as points I really agree with, and I've heard great tone from both TB's ans well as the pucker players as well as bad tone from both. Too many players don't take enough time to learn to make the subtle adjustments in their embouchure as well as the inside shape of their mouths necessary to make it happen.
In many ways, it's not unlike vocal technique, and every vocal coach stresses about having a very open throat in order to produce the best tone, projection, etc., and harmonica is no different.
Being physicially relaxed so that your air passages will be fully opened up cannot be overstressed. I've always recommended that every harp player go to a vocal coach just for the breathing exercises alone and you'd be surprised at just how poorly the average person's breathing technique is and how often reshaping the embouchure as well as the inside shape of the mouth is so important for the vocalist to properly reproduce vowels that sound right, and this also applies to the harmonica as well. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
i thought my crack about estrin cigar blocking was pretty good but it got et up in the feeding frenzy. nobody said,'well try and do double stops without your epiglotis, FOOL!' or, 'estrin gets great tone cuz the sucker is so damn tall and you can't get that kind of tone without stilts,SHORTY!'or,'i can do cigar blocking but choose not to.' i can see it now, a pro lipper was was shot to death by a pro tounger outside a jason ricci clinic. sources say the men knew eachother and were romantically involved. when asked about the incident the saddened ricci commented,"it was bound to happen sooner or later. anyone who puts a harp in his mouth is obviously struggling with identity issues."
"I'll admit to identity issues, but only when drinking anything over 140 proof." Todd, would those issues be.."What the hell IS my name?" lol
Last Edited by on Feb 26, 2010 3:37 PM
used to drink a lotta gin and kept making bad decisions. such as drinking a lotta gin. during a big show. barfed into harmonica during whammer jammer. harp had issues. promoter had issues. heavy sadness. big joes sax player tried to cheer me up by saying he had barfed in his horn. nice guy
hi all ! just thought i'd add a few words to the issue. as i am also a guitarist , not well known ,but i haven't had any bad comments so far so must be doing something right, I'm not the most technical player either, i have very good ears to be able to get the sort of tones and vibe i want , but it's always a personal thing , one man's great tone is anothers nails down a blackboard! as far as Harp goes , i have been using my fender super reverb on the normal channel to get that bassman -like sound , with my trusty bullet mic , also the 2x10 vibrolux for harp duties as well .i tend to use an overdrive box to keep the volume at an acceptable level . last week i finally got to play through a modded bassman whi;e on a guest spot with a blues duo , I was chuffed to get a compliment on a deep tone from the regular harp player in the group , we even had a bit of a harp duet with both of us plugged into the same amp .
He said to me , how do you get that lovely deep tone without any effects , the first thing that came to mind is what i learn't of the venerable mr Gussow's site , to drop your jaw and get the harp deep in your mouth , but also i usually staydown the bottom range , while playing fills and mix it up for a solo . which brings me back to the guitar , with blues fills , i stay down the bottom of the neck for fills and only hit the high notes sparingly taking care not to try and play everything in one song , being economical . i feel with any lead or rythm playing be it harp , guitar , let your playing talk ,don't shout through everything , dynamics is the way forward. it doesn't matter what technique you use , as long as what you communicate makes sense . lastly i'm never to cuss ,slag off , or diss other players , only to chat and help if ,my help is wanted or needed . something i read somewhere , It's better to laugh into your sleeve and carry a light bulb than to proffer nonsense and upset others bye for now
Last Edited by on Feb 26, 2010 6:10 PM
I am the one being interviewed in the book "Blues With a Feeling". Little Walter used a combination of the tongue curl and also standard "textbook" tongue blocking. So do I. When he was showing me things in 1953, we were both interested in the fact we had worked the tongue curl out for ourselves because we were so young when starting out to play the harp, our tongues were too small to do the usual tongue block. (I started out at age 3) As the tongues grew larger, the textbook blocking was added. I still use both today and I am in my 68th year of playing. I get plenty of tone and there are a few samples of my play on my website at joeleebushshow.com to validate this. I think most players struggle with tone because they have not yet learned the importance of BREATH CONTROL....how to switch from #1 breathing straight in through the mouth #2 breathing in through the nostrils and #3 doing both simultaneously as well...which can affect tone tremendously. And..they are bound and determined to wiggle their heads from side to side to get that warble which Walter did not do. I teach students to use those wrists and move the HARP..not that head. Yea, yea, yea, I know....Rod, Rick,Steve G. and all the rest move their heads. But I still maintain that the control and tone is better by moving the harp instead. Thats my comments on tone. Hope they are of value to some of you. Regards, Doug "JoeLee" Bush
hey sparrow, i heave mine over my shoulder and do the same with my mic cable. i'm careful not to get 'em tangled. i shake the harp and not my head so i don't bump into it. i also put snakeskin tolex on it and man that looks dope. tweed or other coverings just look funny.
Hmm... those big ones sound inconvenient to me. Maybe smaller is better. Maybe it isn't all about how big. Maybe best not to have one at all. ---------- Tin Lizzie
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2010 10:56 AM
After reading the childish comment about penis size from this young pup "sparrow", it's obvious to me that I am in the wrong place. I now know to keep my big mouth shut and let "those who rule" keep on ruling. Pathetic. "JoeLee"
Please rethink that decision. Your input is appreciated by many people. The forum has been a crazy place for the last week or so. I think Jon was just trying to distract folk away from self-destruction with something flippant and with shock value. I can understand that you might find his comment offensive, but it certainly wasn't directed at you. Jon's a good guy really; a dedicated student of the harp. Stick around we can all learn from each other especially people like you with many years of experience.
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2010 4:47 PM
@joelee: You're not in the wrong place, just bad timing. Jon's great at witty one liners and such. Give it some time and see how it all works together as a whole. ---------- Ozark Rich
I didn't know that Mr.BADASS himself Dennis Gruenling was a member here, a walk down memory lane for some with this old thread - Did Kim Wilson ever stop by?
I agree with learning both, but I don't understand why some of you say you can't put the harp deep into your mouth while lip pursing for a fat tone. I lip purse and the harp is so deep in my mouth that my upper lip is flush with the back of the harmonica. Deep harp, big open mouth and throat,and totally relaxed...sounds pretty fat to me.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica "but i play it anyway"
i copied and pasted harpdudes comment he calls it lip purse... not sure why in the world there is this revolution, to change a word. it just seems silly. it is silly the harp has ten holes 20 reeds it is not complicated, so we have to make up things to talk about.
nothing personal..... he has a great band nothing but fun, and makes a boatload of money doing it.
i have respect and admiration for him, as a person and a harmonica player, he is passionate, that is a good thing. my hat is off to him.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica "but i play it anyway"
With all of this talk of terminologies and stuff I just googled: " fat tone definition" and the most prominent response I got indicated that more fat equals less tone! O.K., so it was a fitness or gymnasium site, but it just goes to show, words are pretty arbitrary really.
