GermanHarpist
220 posts
Mar 26, 2009
11:01 AM
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Inspired by Buddhas videos, and his preference to 12th position playing, I thought this would be a nice idea for a thread.
I didn't really start practicing it yet, but I have the feeling that it sounds more difficult than it is (12 is just such a high number... lol ;-). If you think about it (and if you know your music theory) you come to realize that there is actually only one note different in 12th position and first position playing (or rather, that there is only one note different in the scales...).
(Am I correct there?)
Anyway, what do you guys think about 12th position (its sound, playability etc.)?
+There's a question from Andrew that I would like to reach on: Does any of you know a song that sounds better in 12th than in 1st position?
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germanharpist, harpfriends on Youtube
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Andrew
189 posts
Mar 26, 2009
11:09 AM
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"Does any of you know a song that sounds better in 12th than in 1st position?"
aPART FORM THE OBVIOUS ONE ON rOCKET nUMBER nINE!
aARGH i'VE BEEN CAPSLOCKED!
BACK TO THE PARTY!
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Buddha
175 posts
Mar 26, 2009
11:13 AM
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happy birthday is the song I use to teach 12th to raw beginners.
Start on blow 4 and use your ear from there.
Last Edited by on Mar 26, 2009 11:14 AM
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GermanHarpist
221 posts
Mar 26, 2009
11:33 AM
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Buddha, that has the 6ob in it, right?
Sorry, Andrew, which one is the obvious one?
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germanharpist, harpfriends on Youtube
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Buddha
176 posts
Mar 26, 2009
11:43 AM
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yes
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Preston
240 posts
Mar 26, 2009
12:00 PM
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I think the sound of 12th position is very "pretty" if you will. It's not the dirty, gritty sound of the 2nd position blues, but I do enjoy playing in it. However, on some harps it is just to high pitched for my taste as the high octave starts on the 5 draw.
On the other hand, I find the lower Octave more dificult to play. The step and a half 3hole bend is the blue third, and half step 3hold bend is the major 4th. If you are climbing the scale, hitting these two notes consecutively while keeping the intonation correct and not accidentally getting the whole step bend in there too is a lot more scarier than a 6 overblow. (To me anyway.)
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DanP
56 posts
Mar 26, 2009
1:23 PM
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The upper register is too high pitched for my ears too. Preston is correct, 12th position is not very bluesy sounding but I think it sounds great for major-scale folk melodies. 12th position is in the key of F on a C-harp. The tonic notes are 2 hole draw bent down to F for the low register, 5 hole draw for the middle register and 9 hole draw for the high register. I would'nt recommend using the low register for beginners because scales are always tricky when they start on a bent note because you have to resolve on it and if you don't hit it right on the money, it doesn't sound right.
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Aussiesucker
212 posts
Mar 26, 2009
1:40 PM
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I really like 12th position. Some good simple songs, not blues, that I think suit being played in 12th are Amazing Grace & Ave Maria. I guess Prestons description of it sounding 'pretty' is apt & therefore suited to some melodies.
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bluzlvr
147 posts
Mar 26, 2009
1:47 PM
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I've been practicing 12th position a little by doing the lydian mode up and down the harp. The lydian is the "sweetest" sounding mode (in my opinion anyway).
I heard the Allman Brother's classic "Jessica" the other day and started trying to replicate it on the harp which got me to practicing the major pentatonic scale along with the blues scale.
The major pentatonic scale can come in handy. Just listen to Eric Clapton's classic "Crossroads" solo.
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harpwrench
22 posts
Mar 26, 2009
3:14 PM
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12th may not fit well with all Chicago blues, but it can work well for something like LW's "My Babe" for instance. It can be as bluesy as you want to make it, as can first position.
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isaacullah
132 posts
Mar 26, 2009
3:20 PM
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I second what harpwrench says. In the hands of a good player and with appropriate backing, it can sound very bluesy. It was GREAT with that piedmont blues stuff OW was playing...
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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GermanHarpist
225 posts
Mar 26, 2009
5:39 PM
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Thanks, Andrew. Can somebody post the tabs for 12th position scale? The one that buddha is playing - major, blues.. whatever scale it is. I can't seem to figure it out...
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germanharpist, harpfriends on Youtube
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RyanMortos
118 posts
Mar 26, 2009
5:58 PM
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I was gonna ask, where's a good source (book, website, video) to learn what the scales or holes played are for the 12 positions? I've seen a few different sites that try to explain it, but I still think it could be clearer to someone just trying to learn. It would be nice to know which holes I'm blowing or drawing, bending, etc for each different the positions.
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~Ryan
PA
Ryan's Tube - Containing [0] uploads and counting...
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Preston
242 posts
Mar 26, 2009
7:24 PM
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Here ya go Ryan,
http://www.tradebit.com/filedetail.php/4989005-harmonica-positions-pdf
One of our very own, Mr_So&SO, has done all the leg work for us. It's a FREE download on Adam's store.
By the way, don't be afraid to invest in the knowledge of how major scales and the blues scale are built out of the Chromatic scale. It never hurts to learn boring stuff like that on your own.
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DanP
57 posts
Mar 26, 2009
11:06 PM
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RyanMortos, I can recommend a book for that. It's called Harmonica For Dummies by Winslow Yerxa. That's not an insult, that really is the name of the book and it's not for dummies. In fact, some of it is quite complex. Much of the the book is in standard notation but it is not advanced music notation. I can read music well enough to follow it, so that means it's pretty elementary music reading. But again some is it is rather complicated theory, so if you get the book, prepare to be challenged.
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RyanMortos
120 posts
Mar 27, 2009
7:30 AM
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Thanks for the suggestions guys. When I first got my first harmonica I went to a random bookstore for a how to book. Really wish they did have the ...For Dummies. Perhaps I can still get something out of it unlike Idiots Guide to... .
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~Ryan
PA
Ryan's Tube - Containing [0] uploads and counting...
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GermanHarpist
228 posts
Mar 27, 2009
7:56 AM
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Thanks Preston, I hadn't seen that.
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germanharpist, harpfriends on Youtube
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Grillslinger
32 posts
Mar 27, 2009
8:06 AM
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Harmonica For Dummies is amazing in how informative it is and how much it covers.
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mickil
135 posts
Mar 27, 2009
1:44 PM
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I know that isaacullah mentioned the piedmont blues above in relation to 12th position. I think Chris said on the vid that it was good for that major sounding blues.
Anyway, I'm glad I got exposed to it like that. After watching that vid, all my fear of the BIG number 12 had gone. It ain't that hard to sound OK in 12th. It's just a bit different to play in, that's all.
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
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isaacullah
136 posts
Mar 27, 2009
2:32 PM
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Here's an excel file I made some time ago of three octave tabs for the available blues scales in positions one thru eight. As far as I know there's nothing else like this on the web...
(blues_scales.xls)
Why only positions one thru eight? I got tired after eight and I never went back to finish it! If one of you feel like sticking postions 9 thru 12 on it, that would be cool...
~Isaac
EDIT: I forgot to mention that the main benefit of this chart is that it lines up by scale degree, not by hole number. So all notes in each "column" are the same note in the blues scale, regardless of the actual hole (blow/draw) that you are playing in that particular position.
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Mar 27, 2009 2:36 PM
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GermanHarpist
233 posts
Mar 27, 2009
8:35 PM
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That is a very cool chart, isaacullah. I'm working on another diagram that should make working the last four positions out rather simple. I'll post it once it's done.
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germanharpist, harpfriends on Youtube
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