sopwithcamels266
1 post
Apr 19, 2009
12:10 PM
|
My background is jazz sax,play piano for composing, guitar etc and always loved playing the diatonic harp,but not too seriously like you guys.
One of the reasons for this was the frustrations of its limitations until I kind of realised its distinct advantages in the blues.In horn playing we tend to play one for jazz but play all of them for work.
I remember a few years ago I had awork gig and had to switch instruments off Tnr to improvise on baritone.Now I remember making sure I didn't wind up on it too much otherwise it sounded like a bee taking off. (In otherwords may be great technically but utterly lost) You had to really think about how to approach the solos.
This concept I guess is the same for the diatonic harp.
So I kind of see it as an advantage to telling a good story on the harp.
Interested to know what you guys think about this
|
Buddha
263 posts
Apr 19, 2009
1:20 PM
|
the diatonic harmonica can pretty much play anything a sax can and more.
If you can't do what you want on the harp then you need to practice rather than just assume it's a limited instrument.
Last Edited by on Apr 19, 2009 1:24 PM
|
GermanHarpist
282 posts
Apr 19, 2009
3:57 PM
|
To be honest sop, I don't really understand what you're trying to say.
Welcome to the forum anyway (or congrats on your first post - whatever it is). It would be nice if you could clarify a bit.
Cheers
----------
germanharpist, harpfriends on Youtube
|
sopwithcamels266
2 posts
Apr 20, 2009
12:02 AM
|
German Harpest:Thanks for welcoming me to the forum.
Your quite right to clarify my original post.
OK, All instruments have advantages and drawbacks over others.
I was using the example of a Baritone Sax simply because if it is improvised in a (Hard Bop, post bop fashion, (For wont of ther words Very fast)It becomes utterly pointless in my view. The nature of the range of sound all technique is lost on the listner,( All you here is notes being crushed together.)A mistake made by many top players.
I was drawing the comparison to the Diatonic Harmonica which because of the nature and the way its laid out naturally restrics the crushing of notes.
It seems to me that that is an adavantage to the blues player. Otherwise if the harp player works hard to play very fast,the lines and patterns can become similar to the baritone at tempo.The listner hears very little.
So as the blues harp player develops speed,knowledge and phrasing has to be thought about in a way that perhaps previously wasn't neccessary.
Thats what I was aiming at to open up the debate.
Regards
|
DaDoom
87 posts
Apr 20, 2009
12:52 AM
|
Hi sop, welcome to the forum :)
I suppose what you want to say is that a harp by nature is an instrument that rather hinders fast playing and that speed on the harp is something you have to build up slowly thus leaving you enough time in the learning process to think about phrasing etc. If that's what you mean I fully agree ;)
For me the harp has one big advantage: I started playing guitar many years ago but I never understood the real nature of music. For me playing the guitar was all about learning series of notes to form a melody. With the harp I totally lost the focus on single notes and started to think in intervals. This is in my opinion one of the biggest advantages of the harp. You're really forced to start thinking about intervals and harmonies. Suddenly everything you play makes more sense.
Also because the instrument is not chromatic you're constantly forced to look for extra notes (that is if you don't want to sound like Bob Dylan). That's another very helpful process as it gives you a feeling for what really makes up the character of blues and of music in general. Take some of Adam's videos for instance: what he plays seems quite simple at first. You pretty soon have all the notes it takes to play the same riff. BUT even if you copy it, it doesn't sound the same! Why? Because it's all in the little details. Bends, intonation, breathing, glissandos, coughs, cupping, thinning out the sound etc. Only if you learn all these subtleties you'll sound as good as he does.
|
harmonicanick
248 posts
Apr 20, 2009
2:12 AM
|
Hi Sop welcome, great user name, my grandpa flew one of those in the first world war in Egypt and I have his RAF wings now.
Keep on harpin'
|
sopwithcamels266
3 posts
Apr 20, 2009
3:57 AM
|
Harmonicanick and DaDoom thanks for the welcome.
DaDoom: Yes exactly you nailed it in your first paragraph, thats spot on what I was aiming at.I agree totally with what you say in your post.
Those subtleties you mention as well as some emulation evolve into your own way of doing it naturally.
Back onto my original point in my other world of jazz sax,there are some of the great jazz sax players that struggle to play blues (Outside a jazz frame work).Once you develop a linear approach and substiute harmony.
I kind of here this happening sometimes with some great diatonic players.Bends suddenly become smoothed out through advanced techniques because of concentration on accuracy.
I can only attribute it to the fact that moving in this direction is still in its very early stages or that the player,he or she is unwittingly moving away from convention and the phrasing and approach hasn't been thought about yet.
Harmonicanick:Hey thats very interesting about your grandpa,and you now have the wings.I am a keen on all that History, you may guess the squadron 266
|
Preston
285 posts
Apr 20, 2009
5:18 AM
|
This is a little bit off the subject, but I believe it can be slid in this topic: My wife used to play Tenor Sax, and has a pretty good feel for music. I go to her when I am working on something and ask her opinion/advise and I always lose her when I start talking improvisation.
For her it was always about the notes on the sheet music in front of her. I asked her one time if she happened to remembered what the key of the song "Tequila" was in, and she looked at me like I was suddenly speaking spanish. She didn't have a clue what the key was, but she did remember the notes that made up the song. She has more official music training and experience under her belt than I do, but she doesn't have a clue how to play anything if it's not in sheet music in front of her. And me, well, I can play to sheet music if you give it to me a day in advance and I transpose it to harp tab!
|
jawbone
2 posts
Apr 20, 2009
7:13 AM
|
Hey Preston - Does she still have the sax - if so, teach her the blues scale - that may open up a whole new world for her - I had played the trumpet for years, but left it by the wayside until I picked up the harp and suddenly made the blues scale connection - she may have a blast just goofin' on C - E flat - F - F# - G - B flat - C. Just a thought.
|
Preston
286 posts
Apr 20, 2009
7:24 AM
|
No, she sold it before I even met her. I have been threatening to buy her another one, but she doesn't seem to have the slightest interest anymore.
|
jawbone
3 posts
Apr 20, 2009
10:12 AM
|
That's a shame - I have been kicking around the idea of trying the sax but they are so darned expensive and I realize I need to do much more work on the instruments I'm fooling with now. But I do love the sound. The trumpet on it's own is not really suited for the blues but it is fun to play the melody for the intro of a song, sing a few bars and then duplicate it on the harp in the middle. Not many bands are doing that. (Maybe for good reason)
|
GermanHarpist
287 posts
Apr 20, 2009
6:31 PM
|
Oldwailer, sounds really cool. The one "secret" he forgot to mention though is: years of playing a wood instrument developing that awesome sound...
----------
germanharpist, harpfriends on Youtube
|
