mickil
157 posts
Apr 24, 2009
2:38 PM
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OK, here we go, another bitchin' thread; we're all used to them by now and ain't it fun?
A few weeks ago, I started a thread 'MB Deluxes have sealed combs?????' (http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/431205.htm) and it got some interesting responses.
A while after that, I found out that Hohner are releasing yet another MB: the Crossover, which, this time, has a completely sealed comb.
I had a look at Harponline; they will be selling them for 65 Euros. They sell the MB Deluxe for 37.50.
This is just too much. Anyone with a modicum of common sense would think that, would presume that, the whole point of the MB Deluxe was to eliminate the problems associated with the standard MB, i.e. produce a harp that's not designed to be 'disposable'.
Here's the thing. What I don't understand is how is it that Seydel can produce the Soloist Pro with a fully sealed comb and charge less for it than Hohner do for an MB Deluxe? Maybe all the Seydel folk are living in a basement at the factory and eating cockroaches to save on costs. But, I doubt that.
The impression I get is that Hohner is trading on its historical position in the Blues. No book written on the subject in decades to come will be complete without a nod to the absolutely incredible sound that the MB has contributed to the art form; and, at least in my view, Hohner are taking advantage of this position and hiking their costs accordingly.
Of course, I may be wrong. I'm not an economist, and I'm certainly no expert in the field of manufacturing. But, the whole marketing thing with Hohner and their MBs does seem a bit fishy to me; so much so that I'm seriously considering never buying their harps again.
Lastly, I'll just say to all those folks who are already beginning to type the words 'Why don't you just buy a different brand of harp?' that I am trying a lot of different harps in pursuit of 'the one'. As obsessed as I am with the instrument, it's important to me to find and stay with one that I'm completely happy with. And the MB fits the bill more than any other. But, on principle alone, I don't like throwing money at a company who seem to delibaretaly make something that's designed to go wrong in a short space of time.
Why they can't - after some 40 versions of the MB since 1896 - just make it to last (reedplates exempted) so that you can hold something in your hand that is cherished and cared for is beyond me.
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
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Pullis
8 posts
Apr 24, 2009
3:00 PM
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Profit, profit and profit. Hohner's trying to get some action by makin new harps with the MB reputation. It really sucks though when a corporation starts putting income ahead of it's customer's satisfaction. It's like creating new editions of miniature games every two years :P. The new rulesets and miniatures cost a fortune. That is, if there's any gamers on this forum, I think there might be some of us freaks among the harp geeks :>.
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scottb
30 posts
Apr 24, 2009
3:01 PM
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$3000 Gibson guitars,
$100,000 Mercedes,
$10,000 Rolex watches
$1000 Armani suits
$30 Corndog at a fancy restaurant. (If you're ever in NW Arkansas, I highly recommend the corndog at James At the Mill, if not for anything else just to say you ate a $30 corndog!)
It's free enterprise baby! It's every companies dream to build their name to a point that the name alone makes their product more valuable.
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Blackbird
70 posts
Apr 24, 2009
3:09 PM
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Hohner can't sell a harp if we refuse to pay the price. Granted, their 'suggested' prices are never paid by even desperate retail shoppers, but the big message is to choose not to buy until the harp hits your budget, and communicate to Hohner. "Dear Hohner, I will not buy a $60 dollar harp, but I will pay $30 for the same thing." And Hohner responds "We can't do that." and you reply "Neither can I, then... good luck!" Like anything else, the profit is determined by the market class or demographics of its intended consumers. If the intended consumers say no, the manufacturer lowers their price, or dies. We hold the power.
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jonsparrow
164 posts
Apr 24, 2009
3:52 PM
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just but custom harps an never be disapointed. that what im gonna start doing.
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mickil
159 posts
Apr 24, 2009
4:33 PM
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jon,
I've been looking online at buying custom combs - wooden ones - cos that's the only bit that's really pi**ing me off about MBs. But I might do just what you're suggesting. Trouble is, it's gonna work out at about $1000 for a set of MBs that way. If I knew for a fact that the MB parts of the future would always fit the combs, I'd spend the dough. But, that is a big gamble. I might just defect to Seydel. The Blues ain't just one sound, after all.
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
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jonsparrow
165 posts
Apr 24, 2009
4:38 PM
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ya but think of it this way. if you were a guitar player you would be spending over $1000 for one guitar. an guitarist normally have a few guitars. granted they last longer then a harp but you get the picture. harps are cheap in price compared to most instruments.
dig your signature. zappa is the man!
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harpwrench
29 posts
Apr 24, 2009
4:41 PM
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Marine Band reedplates are interchangeable from 1897 until now, what makes you think they'd change now?
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mickil
160 posts
Apr 24, 2009
4:51 PM
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js: in light of what harpwrench just said, maybe I'll buy those combs.
harpwrench: thanks for that. I didn't know that was the case.
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
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jonsparrow
167 posts
Apr 24, 2009
6:02 PM
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who are you thinkin of getting them from? just wondering cause im in the market too lookin for some. theres a few to choose from.
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Buddha
300 posts
Apr 24, 2009
6:06 PM
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I make combs $30 shipped
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mickil
162 posts
Apr 24, 2009
6:33 PM
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js, I was looking at this guy:
http://www.builderofstuff.com/harpsforsale.html
But, if CM can do it for that price, he'll be hearing from me soon.
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
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Buddha
301 posts
Apr 24, 2009
6:50 PM
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yeah Chris does good work. He actually helped me get set up to be able to cut combs.
For $20 I'll cut you a raw comb and you can shape it however you want. Lots of people do that and it's kind of fun because you can have round corners, no corners, a rounded back...whatever you can think up.
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jonsparrow
171 posts
Apr 24, 2009
8:04 PM
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buddha what happened to your site? i tried to look at it the other day an it asked for a password?
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Buddha
302 posts
Apr 24, 2009
9:52 PM
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its still being worked on
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Oxharp
75 posts
Apr 25, 2009
10:33 AM
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Hey Chris,
Do you make or know of a site that does composite combs for Mb's I would like to try something other than would. I am sure if effects the tone of the harp alot. I have got an Tony Dannecker blues harp in C with a heavy metal comb and it sounds alot different to my others. Any suggestions?
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Buddha
303 posts
Apr 25, 2009
11:20 AM
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I make them for MB
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jonsparrow
177 posts
Apr 25, 2009
12:08 PM
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i ment how much for a completed harp with reed work/sealed comb etc...
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Buddha
305 posts
Apr 25, 2009
12:28 PM
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$85 basic reed work no comb or cover modifications. You will experience a night and day difference between this harp and one out of the box - ANY harp out of the box.
$150 - Extensive reed work and destressing. There are reed plate modifications, comb modifications and in the case of the Marine Band the comb will be sealed and come with screws
$175 for the same as above but with composite combs that are ground perfectly flat.
There is a night an day difference between my $85 and $175 harps. You will not be disappointed.
Last Edited by on Apr 25, 2009 12:29 PM
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snakes
192 posts
Apr 25, 2009
7:26 PM
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Hello Mr. Buddha,
I am a friend of Oldwailers and have seen your work. VERY impressive. Would it be possible to get your harmonicas made with a thinner profile? I find that one of the things that has drawn me to Suzuki's (MB's are like this too, but out of the box they have other disappointing features that turn me away) is their thin profiles. I liked very much what I saw Ray playing of your handiwork, but wondered if the comb material could be made less thick. If possible from an engineering perspective, what would you otherwise say I may be losing in a quality sense in asking for this modification? I am guessing that if this is possible you would need to know fairly closely how much of the comb thickness I'd like removed (do you prefer it in Centimeters or inches?). I am not always real good at depicting my thoughts so apologies if I've only made an unintelligible gaggle of comments. Oh, one more thing - what is your preferred mode of payment (MC, checks, indentured servitude, etc.). Peace.
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Buddha
306 posts
Apr 26, 2009
1:22 AM
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Yes, of course Snakes. I purposely make them thicker but I can do thinner with no issues.
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Andrew
243 posts
Apr 26, 2009
1:55 AM
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Like snakes, I prefer thin harps.
I don't know what I think of Hohner's business plan. It may be that they are only just realising that people are going for Suzuki and all the others, and so they are groping around, like a swimmer just out of their depth, after a century of complacency, and in a rapidly changing world to boot. I'm puzzled by the way people don't ever mention the price of a harp unless it's Hohner (maybe I'm just being selective about my evidence, tho). The point of the MBD is not to offer a perfect MB for an extra 10$: the point may be to offer a significant improvement. There is such a thing as diminishing returns. All the other manufacturers offer 65Euro harps. I don't feel rage at Hohner for following suit.
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mickil
163 posts
Apr 26, 2009
1:28 PM
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Andrew,
I've beem doing a bit of thinking and a bit of research, and I am coming round to your way of thinking. Huge apologies to Hohner if you read this.
Seydel, Suzuki et al all sell harps in that price bracket. I suppose I was hugely disappointed when I fell in love with the MB Deluxe, and after only a couple of weeks I found out it was a little less disposable than a bic razor. I was suckered and I don't like being suckered.
I've done a little reading up on laminated Moso-Bamboo - the wood being used for the MB Crossover's comb - and apparantly it is seriously sturdy stuff; it's used to make chopping boards, kitchen utensils and even hand-washing basins.
So, I'll throw my money at Hohner. But, if these ones go tits up in next to no time, I will be seriously hacked off.
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
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jonsparrow
182 posts
Apr 26, 2009
3:16 PM
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ill wait till i hear some reviews before i think about getting one.
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snakes
197 posts
Apr 26, 2009
4:10 PM
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Mickil,
Why bother with the Deluxe when for just a little more coin you can get something that has been hand modified and tested before you get it? I own over a dozen Hohner's out of the box and I am done with gambling my money on whether they are good out of the box or will last a decent amount of time. I love the tone, but all of the Hohner's I buy from now on will be from someone who has customized them. Just my nickel as I know this opinion has more than two cents associated with it relative to pricing.
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mickil
167 posts
Apr 26, 2009
5:01 PM
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snakes, I have thought about what you're suggesting. But, I'm gonna hold out and see what these MBCs are like. If they f*uck up in no time, I'll have a re-think. Who knows, maybe Hohner have finally listened or got the wind up 'cos of the competition.
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
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snakes
199 posts
Apr 26, 2009
5:07 PM
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Totally respect that man. Let me know how it turns out at wfollis@msn.com when you are ready to pass judgment on your new purchase. It will be much appreciated. Cheers.
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mickil
168 posts
Apr 27, 2009
3:54 AM
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snakes, I certainly will do that. Harponline reckon they won't have them in 'til July. but I've asked them to e-mail me if they come in sooner.
In the meantime, if you're curious about the comb material Hohner is using, here's a link to a company that makes stuff out of the same type of bamboo:
http://www.enricoproducts.com/site/1324395/page/589117
From what I read on that site, I get the impression that Hohner may finally got their act together, but we'll see.
Icidentally, if anyone's interested, Harponline sell acrylic combs for MBs and MBDs. Me though, I've got this thing in my head whereby I've come to prefer natural materials; a right royal pain in the rear where harps are concerned.
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
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chromaticblues
21 posts
Apr 27, 2009
9:37 AM
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This is an interesting subject! I'm glad their are people not happy with the production harp status. I think hohner's manufacturing process does put enough emphasis on a quality finished product. I think the basic design of the Marine band is great, but the finished product is very inconsistent and not user friendly! I to was very disappointed with the MBD and will not buy another. Right now I'm playing SP 20's with MB cover-plates. For now I'm just sick of spending so much time making custom MB that are the way they should be in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Buddha
323 posts
Apr 27, 2009
10:07 AM
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as a guy who sees dozen of different harmonicas on a regular basis, the Hohners are the most consistent in terms of quality. In the end of all the models I have worked on the Hohners make the best harps.
Its hard to expect a mass produced instrument to play as well that has been modified to play better. I spend about 20 hours on each harp to make them better. For hohner to that, they would have to price the harps at $200-300 each.
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