Hollistonharper
73 posts
Apr 30, 2009
10:55 AM
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I'm on the lookout for an inexpensive vintage 5watt tube amp. Have come across a Sears (Danelectro) silvertone model 1431. I believe it has 8" alnico speaker & 6au6, 6v6gt, 6x5gt tubes but need to verify. Would this be a decent harp amp? Thanks for your thoughts.
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chromaticblues
32 posts
Apr 30, 2009
11:19 AM
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It depends how much you have to pay?
If you can get less than $200 Id say yes. Even if you don't like it!
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Hollistonharper
74 posts
Apr 30, 2009
11:26 AM
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Thanks. They're asking a bit more but that was the number I have in mind.
I should have specifically asked--I've read that the best tubes for harp begin with 12, so is this a good setup?
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Hollistonharper
75 posts
Apr 30, 2009
11:28 AM
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It's local to me
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chromaticblues
34 posts
Apr 30, 2009
11:32 AM
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Yes 6au6 is a good tube, but it is not daul triode like 12ax7. It is a sharp cutoff pentode. I have military versions of the 6au6. I don't remember the number, but they were sold as low hum 6au6's.
6au6 is best known for being the tone generator in hammond B3 organs. They worked pretty good in those. You'll need a hot mic to drive it into distortion. What kind of mic do you have or plan on using?
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Hollistonharper
76 posts
Apr 30, 2009
12:18 PM
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All I've got is a BottleO'Blues and a Nady VHM-7 Bushman bullet style mic...wouldn't begin to know if they are hot or cold...
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Oxharp
78 posts
Apr 30, 2009
12:24 PM
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My advice is to try before you buy.
I have bought a few amps and I always end up selling them on
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chromaticblues
35 posts
Apr 30, 2009
3:22 PM
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Yeah I'd certainly try it first, but amps like that(including the fender champ sound high pitched in stock form). I could modify it very easily or tell you what to have someone else do to it.
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jbone
58 posts
May 01, 2009
5:49 AM
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you NEED a better mic. maybe swap the element in the nady mic for a controlled magnetic or crystal element. or just shop ebay and see what you could get a deal on. but wsith a tube amp, and esp with the gain cut down as with th 12au7-which i use- you need something with real punch at the harp end.
i tried a bottle o blues in a hg2 recently and was really not impressed- sorry jim mc, it just don't stand up tall like a cm or crystal.
if you're going to tube amp, put the right mic with it or you'll be disappointed. imho.
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MrVerylongusername
288 posts
May 01, 2009
6:07 AM
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The Bottle O Blues claims to be a hi-z mic, but 500Ω is a relatively low figure when compared to other hi-z harp mics where KΩ (1000Ω) and MΩ (1000000Ω) ratings are common.
The Nady is definitely low-z
Both will be much better - tonally and in terms of driving the amp - if you plug in a low to high impedance transformer. If you're in the UK Maplin has them. In the States, try Radio Shack. They don't cost a fortune, but the more you spend the better the quality. Shure do a good one.
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chromaticblues
36 posts
May 01, 2009
6:42 AM
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This is a lot of good advice! Hey! This forum can be useful!! Mr. longname is right and that is the best advice at this point. Radio shack or any music store has the low to high impedence inline transformers. And they are cheap. You just want to test an amp with a good mic setup. I wouldn't spend money on a different mic yet, but a different mic will make a big difference.
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Greg Heumann
18 posts
May 01, 2009
7:28 AM
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Before you make an amp purchase, let's get some more info to ensure we give you better advice. What kind of music do you play? What kind of sound are you after? (i.e, clear country tone, effect-laden funky jazz, dirty chicago blues?) What do want to use the amp for? Practice? Rehearsal? Gigging?
The answers to these questions impact what the "right" choice is. Don't let the impedance of your mics make the choice for you. It IS important that the impedance of the mic and amp match, but there are inexpensive devices called "impedance matching transformers" you can use when they don't.
----------
/Greg
http://www.BlowMeAway.com
http://www.BlueStateBand.net
Last Edited by on May 01, 2009 7:29 AM
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Hollistonharper
77 posts
May 01, 2009
9:50 AM
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Thanks all for the great advice--keep it coming, I really appreciate it!
Greg-this is just to screw around with at home, sometimes jamming with a guitar player. I'm just a novice who needs major work developing his accoustic tone, before getting deep into amplified gear. But I'd love a setup that could help me get that overdriven Chicago blues sound. Right now I entertain myself with a vox valvetronix 15w modeling amp, but I'd like something a step closer to genuine. Price is definitely an object--would feel like a wannabe goof investing in something high end like a harpgear. But I'm a wannnabe enough to want to own something vintage rather than an epi blues jr or something similar...so the ad I saw for the silvertone caught my eye and I thought I'd post here before making an impulse buy...I am going to hold off on this amp, but will definitely buy the low-high impedance converter for my lowly mics ....
Last Edited by on May 01, 2009 9:53 AM
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Jaybird803
20 posts
May 01, 2009
10:11 AM
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Hollistonharper, If you just want something to get your feet wet, and you already have a valvetronix(which I have tried but stayed dry),why not pick up a Vox Pathfinder 15R for what you want. The Pathfinder is a great little SS harp amp and can be found used for $50-75 or so.
The other option would be to pick up a Kalamazoo Model 1 or 2 and be real happy. I am sure Greg can vouch for this and even help you out finding one. The Kalamazoo in my opinion is one of the fine little harp amps around. I own one and have built 4 clones of the Kalamazoo. Good luck in your search.
Last Edited by on May 01, 2009 10:27 AM
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chromaticblues
38 posts
May 01, 2009
10:28 AM
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If money is an issue(and when isn't it). The Kalamazoo 1 or 2 is a great idea! They are on Ebay all the time. I love the speaker in those. If you buy one make sure it has the original speaker! The best harp amp I have ever owned was a Kalamazoo 1 that I replaced the 6bq5 with a 6v6! I should have never sold it, but I made a lot of money on it.
Jaybird if you know how to solder you should try the 6v6 on one of them. It seemed smoother after that
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Jaybird803
21 posts
May 01, 2009
11:01 AM
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chromaticblues, I would do as you suggest, but I think that the Champ Tweed 5f1 circuit with the 6V6 is what you end up with,less the tone control (or tremelo with the Model 2). I have a few of the 5F1 amps I also built. I agree that the 6V6 gives a smoother sound, but the edge fron the 6Bq5 is ,for lack of a better word, edgy,and sometimes desireable. I have chained the two together on occasion,and got an interesting mix of the two sounds.
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MrVerylongusername
289 posts
May 01, 2009
11:10 AM
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I'd get the transformer and try your mics out with the Valvetronix first. I think you'll be surprised at the difference it makes.
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chromaticblues
43 posts
May 02, 2009
6:38 AM
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Yeah! Jaybird that sounds cool chaining together. How did you do it? which one was first and did you mic or wire a line out off the speaker terminal.
The kalamazoo I had sounded better than any champ I've ever heard!!
Big difference is the speaker!
The Kalamazoo runs about 30 volts less than the 5F1, the lay out of componants and the output transformer are different!
It seems you have the same sickness I have!!(just have to build things in search for the perfect sound)
Try building a model 1 with the 6V6. Use the original transformer and has to have a good original speaker. Man the more I talk about this the more I want to get another one myself. Want to sell one?
Last Edited by on May 02, 2009 6:40 AM
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Jaybird803
23 posts
May 02, 2009
11:32 AM
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chromaticblues, I simply plug into the #1 input on the 5F1 with my mic, and run an instrument cable from #2 iput to #1put of the Kalamazoo. I do this with the volume turned down and adjust the volumes after the hookup. I may just try slipping a 6V6 into one of my model 1 . Unfortunatly, mine are not for sale at present. lol.
My origional speaker is in a box as I prefer my Webers far better.
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Hollistonharper
79 posts
May 02, 2009
1:20 PM
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Hey Mr. VLUN--I got a low high transformer--my Nady mic does sound a lot better-thanks!!! Can't figure out what to do for my Bottleo'blues though--it's a little funky as it has a1/4" jack right on it--can't seem to find a transformer with the proper ends to it....
I'm starting to feel that gear fever though ( hope it's not swine flu) and now I find a local guy selling a kalamazoo 2 for $250. Pics and description says it's in great shape--if I check it out and it is, is that a fair price? Thanks again all.
Last Edited by on May 02, 2009 1:24 PM
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