sopwithcamels266
27 posts
May 10, 2009
11:02 AM
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I'm learning new things all the time off you guys so heres one for those who haven't experienced ZONE yet or not sure.
OK everyone An Exclusive for MBH. Understanding Zone or what I prefer Right hand side of the brain.
This is the main reason today why I continue to play as a jazz saxplayer,flute, piano,Guitar,blues harp oh and voice but i try to forget that one.
.
This is why for many as the years roll by, audiences need only become the icing on the cake.
OK, Harpers , Go and get a piece of paper and a pencil.
No-don't leave it go get it now go on- OK a pen is fine.
Step (1)
Dwaw one continuous line;a side profile of a face. Starting at the forehead down as far as the chin and neck.
Step (2)
Dwaw a short horizntal line from top of continuous line ie forehead. Do a similar line parallel to first at the neck.
STAND BY TO EXPERIENCE ZONE
step(3)
Draw another face FACING the first one starting at top end of horizontal line. Changing faces into a VASE.
Done correctly (Vase should be symetrical)and you will
FEEL THE ZONE.
Try it again say a a little more intricate eg:A Witches face. When you create the symetry of the vase and measure with your eyes you shift to Right hand side of the brain.
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jonsparrow
274 posts
May 10, 2009
11:30 AM
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um...
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Buddha
384 posts
May 10, 2009
12:40 PM
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pass the flask of Jack please.
Thanks!
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jonsparrow
276 posts
May 10, 2009
12:42 PM
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lol!
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tookatooka
218 posts
May 10, 2009
2:56 PM
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I think what Sopwith is talking about is that one side of the brain deals with logic, numerical and linear matters, while the other deals with abstract, colour, rhythm etc. If you can cancel out the logical side the rhythmic side is more dominant for a while, and free to be more expressive. I think?
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When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
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KingoBad
36 posts
May 10, 2009
3:18 PM
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Me thinks you are full of crap. Stop reading psychology books and spurting unassimilated nonsense and put the damn harp in yo mouth.
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Buddha
386 posts
May 10, 2009
3:29 PM
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I know what he was talking about but you simply can't rely on one half or the other. The best musicians are WHOLE brained.
Furthermore, the brain of the musician is PHYSICALLY different than that of the non-musician. This is not to say they are born differently, playing music actually alters your brain in ways that are visible to the trained eye.
Gottfried Schlaug used brain imagery to measure the sizes of different parts of the brain. He found first, for example, that the corpus callosum - the big band which unites the two hemispheres of the brain - tends to be larger in musicians. And then he found enlargements of the cortex, the grey matter, in the auditory parts of the brain, and in motor parts of the brain to a degree which may be almost visible tothe naked eye. So that, say, if one looks at pictures of brains, you might not be able to say this man is a genius or this man is a fool, or this man is a visual artist, but you could say that man is a musician.
Last Edited by on May 10, 2009 3:38 PM
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Buddha
387 posts
May 10, 2009
3:55 PM
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I know. Too much Jack and weed huh?
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jonsparrow
278 posts
May 10, 2009
4:03 PM
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too much everything over the years. im pretty much sober recently though.
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Buddha
388 posts
May 10, 2009
4:09 PM
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that's good. Sober is the best way to be. show me a guy who needs to drink or do drugs to play music and I will show you a guy who has problems beyond being a good musician.
To me the musicians make their best music when completely sober. It's a spiritual thing and if your brain is altered then it's generally closed to the channels of harmonious vibrations.
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jonsparrow
279 posts
May 10, 2009
4:16 PM
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i totally agree. but i think theres a part where it is needed at some point in life to develop the right state of mind for the future. well depending on what you want to be in life. for instance you cant realy play the blues if you never experienced it.
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Buddha
389 posts
May 10, 2009
4:31 PM
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"for instance you cant realy play the blues if you never experienced it."
Totally disagree!
I think everybody needs to experience what I call the "death channel". A person gets themselves into such a dark place they can only see two things: Their demise or Love. It's at that moment of choosing to go one way or the other our major path has been defined. It's hard to fight your way back to the lightness of being but when you do, you discover true love of the self. I'm not speaking of ego here. I mean, a person discovers and decides on who he/she is and begins to walk that path.
I think playing music is a form of controlled rage. In that state, nothing matters yet all is absorbed as you battle through to victory or death.
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jonsparrow
280 posts
May 10, 2009
4:41 PM
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"I think playing music is a form of controlled rage."
but if some one dosnt have any rage where would they draw from? it would just be fake. even if they could still play the music it wouldnt have any soul or meaning to it. there has to be some point of there life that they had that rage or blues that they can relate to.
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Buddha
390 posts
May 10, 2009
4:51 PM
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everybody has rage in them somewhere.
I train dogs, not just for Obedience but rather for serious protection work.
Do you know how you get a dog to bite that doesn't want to bite? You put pressure on them until they snap. For some dogs that means you get to the point of whacking them with a stick until they bite. For other dogs all you have to do is stare at them. The point is EVERY dog has a break point.
In fact every living thing has a break point.
Its about pressure and how you deal with it and when the decision is made to deal with it, then you're in the Rage channel. When a person rages enough, they learn to control it. Then then learn to use it.
This is no shit when I say this, most of the people on this board need to have the shit kicked out of you in one way or another or you will never be any good.
Part of the reason why I am such a good teacher is because I know how to put pressure on people and I know how to release it.
Learning to control your rage will give you that killer instinct that really good musicians have. It's not about competition, its about confidence and dominance.
Last Edited by on May 10, 2009 4:53 PM
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KingoBad
37 posts
May 10, 2009
7:13 PM
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I would also say that most people need the shit kicked out of them one way or another to be a decent human being. Some people more than once.
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jaymcc28
47 posts
May 11, 2009
6:46 AM
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@SOP...ummm...what do I do with all these lines I've drawn on my face? I have to go to work and I look a little silly...
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sopwithcamels266
28 posts
May 11, 2009
8:44 AM
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tookatooka:Exactly right man you nailed it.
Budda: The demonsration WASN'T designed for the converted.
Its purpose WASN'T designed to remain in the zone.
The object was merely to EXPERIENCE the SHIFT.
Kingobad:Thats funny
Jaymcc28: Ha, Sorry man Hope you keep your job
Last Edited by on May 11, 2009 8:48 AM
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Buddha
394 posts
May 11, 2009
9:01 AM
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SOP,
I think it's the wrong shift your asking people to experience. You don't want to shift right to left or left to right... There is no shift, it's on or off with both right AND left. And eventually it does shift to ONLY ON.
Am I misunderstanding you?
Last Edited by on May 11, 2009 9:05 AM
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sopwithcamels266
29 posts
May 11, 2009
9:34 AM
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Buddha:I think that although both sides have to be engaged the right side needs to be more dominant in order to be creative, musically or artistically.
Interesting very interesting about the statement you make about musos brains (being physically different ) Hey man I didn't know that, thanks I will have to do some research on that one.Check it out.
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Buddha
395 posts
May 11, 2009
10:00 AM
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ok, then I think you're not correct in thinking the right side has to be dominant. That's the old way of thinking. The best musicians are whole-brained.
I'm glad I can turn your eye and mind on to something new. I suggest you begin your journey with Oliver Sacks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Sacks
Have fun!
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XHarp
46 posts
May 11, 2009
10:56 AM
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Whole Brained would be a good way to put it but perhaps well rounded would be a better definition.
I mean surely we do all have some rage in us, but I'm not sure that being raged is a journey to musical improvement.
Does it have some link to musical skill? Perhaps because to be outraged is allowing yourself to release an emotion or emotions for which one would feel so strong about. Music is about emotion so I can buy that they feed off each other in some way.
It might be that people with rage have a higher emotional presence and if they can find release for that rage in the music they may be better musicians. Who's to say for sure?
It has long been understood that musicians develop their brain at different rate and in particular in the areas of language, as well as other areas. But as we all know language is how we express our emotions so perhaps its all tied to how emotional each of us are.
Cool topic but the drawing idea at the top???? You'd need to be somewhat skilled as an artist to get the first line drawing to represent a facial profile.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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XHarp
47 posts
May 11, 2009
11:22 AM
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Interesting that you took my statements as negative. Perhaps that's ingrained in us when using the word rage?
My relationship to rage is that it is an emotion however it is defined as anger as noted below from wikipedia so it does have a negative understanding.
Rage, in psychiatry, is a mental state that is one extreme of the intensity spectrum of anger. When a person experiences rage it usually lasts until a threat is removed or the person under rage is incapacitated. The other end of the spectrum is annoyance (DiGiuseppe & Tafrate, 2006). Psycho-pathological problems such as depression increase the chances of experiencing feelings of rage (Painuly et al., 2005).
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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Buddha
397 posts
May 11, 2009
11:27 AM
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i think you're right x-harp
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XHarp
48 posts
May 11, 2009
11:47 AM
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Man what a topic for research and publication. If only I had the credentials to be an accepted authority.
Hmmmm......
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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KingoBad
38 posts
May 11, 2009
1:05 PM
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I think many great artists (not neccessarily musicians) sumblimate mental energy - anguish,rage,fear,even psychosis - into that channel of action. They allow that raw energy to be transformed into something beautiful
(although plenty of others into not neccessarily good things).
I also think that others who perhaps have no overriding mental(negative let's say)energies behind them can learn to tap back into those primal passions that are within all of us. Learning a disciplined ride of that primal energy can drive music that resonates with others. I don't think most of us (probably shouldn't say all) watch or hear someone play and say "those quarter notes and eight notes were perfectly in meter...well executed lad..." We would probably say "that was sweet!" or "I think that sucked." While I am not arguing against enjoying technical mechanical mastery is not part of the musical experience, I think that making others feel something is. It starts at a basal level and builds in complexity from there. I would much rather hear something basic that makes me feel deeply as opposed to being overrun with 32nd notes and leave me cold and uninspired. Amazed at technical accomplishment perhaps, but unmoved none the less.
As to the right brain/left brain issue:
Musicians surely must use their right brain. It is creative, artistic and spacial. However, music is also logical, numerical, metered, organized, lingual, etc. - very left brain. I think it is in that harmony of both working together that creates great music - or a good musician.
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XHarp
49 posts
May 11, 2009
1:10 PM
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So it seems that the whole brained thing has merit.
I can buy that.
Right brain, left brain, or the whole brain
It leaves me badly drained.
Gonna go and jam with the band.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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Buddha
398 posts
May 11, 2009
1:21 PM
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I just want another beer and maybe some herb.... where the heck is Todd Edmunds when you need him?
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sopwithcamels266
30 posts
May 11, 2009
2:14 PM
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Aussiesucker: Nice one man, good link the dancers cool. currently I can only get her to go clockwise.
Check this link Guys (Reference the RAGE thing)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8043688.stm
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Aussiesucker
269 posts
May 11, 2009
2:26 PM
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Sop : clockwise is good ie the correct zone for an artist/ musician. I get about a 50/50 response.
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Zhin
299 posts
May 12, 2009
12:25 AM
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I've read that true geniuses use both sides of their brain almost equally. like 49%/51%. I can believe that.
If someone was completely right brain dominant there would be no control or refinement and lack of planning. Just pure id and instinct.
Too much of the left side and things may get boring and repetitive. As they say, too much thinking can really mess up your playing.
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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin
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Andrew
310 posts
May 12, 2009
1:11 AM
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True geniuses work hard. Like someone said, put the damn harp in yo mouth!
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Andrew
311 posts
May 12, 2009
1:15 AM
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Seriously, I've been to drawing classes and seen how they get the untalented daughters of the bourgeoisie to free the logical sides of their brains - they teach them to do an entire drawing in less than 3 minutes (or however long a pop music single lasts - that's their attention span).
They produce such freeeee drawings! And they all look the same - "art-school marks". And no-one learns how to draw: no-one becomes a draughtsperson. Picasso as a teenager learnt to draw academically. His mind was free.
Here's some things he knocked together when he was 15 (they are impressive but academic):
http://www.artlex.com/ArtLex/ij/images/juvenil_picass.1stcom.lg.jpg
http://www.copiesandfakesinart.com/images/Picasso1.jpg
http://site.mynet.com/vahdetcakir06/mynet_resimlerim/picasso1_1__1_.jpg
(don't worry about the copies and fakes site - that drawing has been famous for 100 years)
Put the harp in yo mouth. If you have it, you'll find it.
Last Edited by on May 12, 2009 1:22 AM
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Arbite
26 posts
May 12, 2009
1:21 AM
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This topic is amazing, More topics like this about the Musical mind, and how to expand your brains potential to music please,
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http://www.youtube.com/arbite83
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Andrew
312 posts
May 12, 2009
1:27 AM
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The best artists just do it. This left-side, right-side crap is just psychologists flailing about. Anyway GENES, the great "explanation" for everything [/ironic], have now superceded the left-side, right-side thing.
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The Gloth
31 posts
May 12, 2009
2:30 AM
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I don't know about that left/right brain thing, but on the subject of rage being the motor of playing music I would agree with KingoBad's point of view : rage is an emotion one can use to play music, as well of expressing it and make the audience feel it, but there are a lot more emotions you can use/express/transmit to the audience : joy, sadness, peace, spiritual enlightment, even humor. I don't believe that rage (even in a positive acception of the word) is the driving force behind every (good) musician.
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Oisin
248 posts
May 12, 2009
2:59 AM
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As the great Johnny Rotten once said "Anger is an energy" . Turned inwards and not expressed it forms depression...turn it back out again and you've got..........the Blues.
Oisin
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sopwithcamels266
31 posts
May 12, 2009
3:04 AM
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Andrew:your statement= best artists just do it
Of course thats OBVIOUS. For you the learning process is different. Its different for everyone.
Example:
I am on the band stand cutting Hard Bop thats a form of jazz, on my main instrument TNR Sax with another sax player.We may or may not play a similar style but the way we evaluate the lauguage is more often than not different.At the point of execution playing has to be second nature but DIFFERENT.
The way in which I see jazz or blues for that matter in my head is not neccessarily the way I would show others. It depends.
This topic for some NOT all could be crucial in their blues development on harp.
Its how each individual opens up their mind and inperpretes it.
Gloth: check the link below if haven't already had a look.I kind of see what you mean. Could rage simply the driving force that makes you bother to wake up in the morning.Yea to me ONE of the functions of music is freedom of all expression.
Interesting the dancer that Ausiesucker posted this link.Everyone should try it.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22556281-661,00.html
(Reference the rage thing)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8043688.stm
Last Edited by on May 12, 2009 3:06 AM
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Buddha
401 posts
May 12, 2009
4:13 AM
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I've seen that dancing girl. I can make it twirl in both directions at will and I can make it stationary. I have yet to meet another person who can do that... Can any of you make the bitch stop spinning?
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The Gloth
32 posts
May 12, 2009
5:06 AM
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I always see it spinning clockwise first (*), but then I manage to change it's direction. With some concentration I can create illusion that it's moving slower or faster, but not make it stop... unless I close both eyes !
(*) I'm left-handed, which should mean that my brain-hemispheres are reversed.
Last Edited by on May 12, 2009 5:11 AM
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XHarp
50 posts
May 12, 2009
6:09 AM
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OK That's cool, I think I can get it to slow down but not stop and its always turing clockwise.
Not sure I buy this as a definition of brain activity. The photo is spinning on a preplanned axis in a preplanned direction. Its not random, it is a definitive action and machine generated on some prior plan.
I would think that if you saw it turning in the direction opposite to its plan you are definitly processing the image differently. I'm not sure I can buy it as defining right or left brain activity. What would you call dyslexia then?
Yet, there are many who claim to see it both ways or one way or can even stop it. OK, so call me a skeptic.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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sopwithcamels266
32 posts
May 12, 2009
6:27 AM
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Gloth: I am ambidextrous but its still bloody clockwise for me.
Hey Budda man I think you got something there.
The F.......thing keeps spinning clockwise for me.
Only once did I subconsiously stare at her feet when I first saw it and that was anticlockwise. Once I looked at the whole body it would not do anything but clockwise.
Last night or when ever it was (different time zones)
I called my other half into my music studio to look at it at the same time.
As I saw it clockwise all the time, she was seeing it 50 50.
The only way I can get that dancer to be stationary is a freeze on my PC when it first enters the site
or as Gloth mentioned shut your eyes.
Does this mean Buddha you can command at will women to stop in the street, wow could be useful. Only the next two steps would be making them spin in both directions.
I will just go and rewire my brain and give it another go sometime.
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The Gloth
34 posts
May 12, 2009
6:58 AM
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The trick to reverse the direction is (for me at least) : direct your eyes not on the dancer, but on the text on the left, and don't focus ; try to "see" the dancer instead of "looking at it" and it should change direction.
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XHarp
52 posts
May 12, 2009
7:04 AM
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So you can all trick the ladies into performing for you eh? and you do that by not looking at them?
Nice. Very Nice.
I can't even get them to stop when I ask them a question. But I am building up a good immunity to mace.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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sopwithcamels266
33 posts
May 12, 2009
7:05 AM
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The Gloth: Got it man, thanks, nailed it both ways.
That trick you just shared did it for me.
Buddha: Thats funny; nice one.
Last Edited by on May 12, 2009 7:07 AM
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Aussiesucker
271 posts
May 12, 2009
2:19 PM
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Yes, The Gloth is spot on. If you focus your brain on the text ie think logically or vice versa then she will switch direction. As for stopping her in her tracks only a pause button could do this. Could be useful for us all to have a pause button in our brains at times!
Am surprised the amount of reaction this 'dancer' got as it was well publicised ca 2 years ago.
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Buddha
406 posts
May 12, 2009
2:50 PM
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"As for stopping her in her tracks only a pause button could do this."
I can do it so keep trying.
So I just did it again.... what happens is the dancer splits into to parts and I have two spinning dancers going in opposite directions and then they get blurry and stop as they merge.
Last Edited by on May 12, 2009 3:02 PM
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sopwithcamels266
36 posts
May 12, 2009
3:53 PM
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Well I play blues harp for sure but mainly Im a jazz man on sax. Buddha plays jazz harp. right.Mind set similar to Airbourne soldier*
Now Im thinking is Buddha toying with us here or can this be done Can the Sopwithcamel of 266 stop the dancer and split her in half as Buddha suggests can it be done.
My leaving report from Airbourne forces many years ago stated.
*This man dosen't understand what giving up is.
At the time I thought it was an insult. Anyway I relate it also to some musos, Artists etc
Budda: Not only have you got me into the Research on Oliver Sachs for starters.I did it tonight.
After Gloth gave me the trick initially for both directions I found after a short while I could control that much better and to my amazment you can do a kind of split.
And yes if you get it right you can stop the dancer.
At will as Buddha says
Buddha:Man you were right I didn't believe you before but I wasn't going to give up till I had tried everything.Actually it didn't take that long to sort out but yes your right and you can change at will.
Its not bullshit you can do it. As Buddha points out try again.
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gene
192 posts
May 12, 2009
4:37 PM
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That website didn't say a thing about what left brain/right brain has to do with the direction of spin. I don't get it.
Anyway, I saw her boobs first, then I saw her spinning counterclockwise and could not see it could the other way, though I understood how it could be the other way. I concentrated on her foot (the one on the floor), and then I could see it the other way. After that, with a little practice, I made her go back and forth without making a full rotation.
Making her stop??!! Your computer must be freezing up!!
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Buddha
410 posts
May 12, 2009
4:50 PM
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I find it interesting that so many people think it's impossible so they stop trying.
It's possible. I can do it and so can sopwithcamels266. Its likely you can do it as we'll if you believe it's possible.
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Aussiesucker
272 posts
May 12, 2009
6:26 PM
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Yep! I finally, ever so briefly, got her to stop a number of times. I'm a believer.
Far too much time to waste - back to woodshedding!!!
Last Edited by on May 12, 2009 6:27 PM
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