Micha
1 post
May 24, 2009
9:07 AM
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Hi everybody,
I have some questions for you harpists out there who obviously know much much more about 'amplified harp' than me.
Let's situate myself: I am playing the harp for about 7 to 8 months now, and am quite comfortable playing most songs from Adam's Intermediate to Advanced intermediate lessons (except for the ones with overblows).
After all the acoustic playing, I think I'm ready to start playing amplified. I've been doing a lot of reading on the internet and have come up with this Amp/Mic combo:
Amp: Gretsch G5222
Mic: Shure 520D Green Bullet (element 99S556 JJ)
What do I expect from this: I want this first amplified rig to be able to give me the classic dirty chicago blues tone. And I don't want it to be very loud. I want to use it to jam with some friends in my garage or play it alone in my room without disturbing the whole house.
I can buy both items at a good price.
What are you're thoughts on this? Is this a good choice? Can it give me the distortion I want? Any other suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
Michaël
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MrVerylongusername
321 posts
May 24, 2009
9:18 AM
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Sounds like it'll give you what you want. It might be a little dry. you might want to consider a delay pedal in the chain for a bit of slapback.
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jonsparrow
339 posts
May 24, 2009
9:29 AM
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i donno what you consider loud, but your gonna wanna crank the volume up to drive the tubes an its going to be loud. i never tried that amp, but my amp is 5watt an it gets LOUD.
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MJ
40 posts
May 24, 2009
9:54 AM
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Micha, That amp/mic setup looks like a good starter kit. The Gretch looks an awfull lot like the Fender Champion 600 Re issue, which is a nice little 5 watt tube amp. If you have a volume control on that mic, you will be able to turn up the amp for the overdrive and control the volume on the mic for when you are at home. I use a Boss DD-3 delay and as MrVerylongusername suggests, I whole heartedly concur.
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Maciekdraheim
33 posts
May 24, 2009
9:55 AM
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I think it would be a good sounding setup, but I have to agree with Jon. Gretsch is a 5 watt tube amp, very similar in construction to my Epiphone Valve Junior. Those tube amps have to be crancked up a bit to give you the tone. With a mic you write about (high impedance Shure I think) you will be able to turn up the volume to approximately 30%, but it will be loud at this level. But for garage playing, jamming and home training it will be fine. Just remember to close the door, so you'll prevent disturbing other people in your house (but they'll surely hear it, so night practice it's not a good idea). I hope you'll be pleased with your rig.
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Micha
2 posts
May 24, 2009
12:22 PM
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Thanks for the fast and accurate response everyone!
Is there a way that you can output your amplifier into somesort of device (perhaps trough the computer?) which can turn the volume down, so you can overdrive your amplifier but it's not that loud?
Or is this only possible with a volume control on the mic?
And that delay pedal: does it matter which one? Or is this just the 'standard' guitar delay pedal from the music store?
I've also read something about an equalizer (maybe combined with the delay pedal?) or a anti-feedback device? Will this be something I could need?
Thanks in advance
Micha
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Maciekdraheim
34 posts
May 24, 2009
12:42 PM
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There is such a device called a "volume attenautor" or similar. It's a kind of master volume. It puts the whole signal from the mic to a preamp letting it to ovrdrive, but lowering voltage on the poweramp stage making it more quiet. I get the preamp distortion, but you'll surely lose some tone on the powerstage and overdriving the speaker. I didn't try that, but I suppose you'll get quite good tone (but not as good as without it) at far more resonable volume level.
About some anti feedback gear. Those small amps are "dirty" sounding. What's more, the decent mic gives a signal about 50 times bigger than a guitar, the characteristic of a mic is omnidirectional, so it can easily "hear itself". The last, but not least, the best sound is achieved when a volume is just a bit below MEGA FEEDBACK LEVEL. So those irritating sounds may be a huge problem. Sometimes I have a hard time fighting with it. When the cup is well sealed there is not much of a noise, but when I loosen it a bit to make some sound effects things start to scream... Some anit-feedback pedal can be extremely useful, but expensive (Kinder Anti-Feedback, the best I've heard about is about 350$). You can live without it (like me), but I wouldn't be angry if Santa could bring me one :).
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MrVerylongusername
322 posts
May 24, 2009
12:42 PM
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buy the amp and mic first and they see whether you need anything else. Feedback is always a problem when you push the amp hard. Knowing where to stand in relation to your amp can make a huge difference. Tone controls also need adjusting, what's best for guitar is not necessarily good for harp. If your amp doesn't have tone controls then a 7 band eq pedal can help. As for delay, there's only one specifically built for harp; that's the Lonewolf Delay. I've never used one, but I've read good things about it, I'm sure someone here must have one. Any guitar delay will sound OK. I prefer analogue ones over digital myself, but it's personal preference. Take your rig to a guitar shop and try a few out. Let your ears decide.
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MJ
41 posts
May 24, 2009
1:24 PM
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Micha, If your mic has no volume control, you can use a volume pedal. I have a Dunlap volume pedal that I use with some of my mics that have no VC. I bought a used one for $45 off Craigslist.
I have also heard that the Lonewolf Delay is really good, but a bit pricey. I use the Boss DD-3 which I found out about because Adam uses one. I picked up 2 of them used for around $50 a piece.
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jonsparrow
341 posts
May 24, 2009
2:06 PM
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i realy didnt have much of a feedback problem until i got my high impedance mic. then it was realy bad. couldnt even turn the volume up at all. so i got the kinder anti feedback pedal. works like a charm. i can crank the volume way up an be right next to the amp with zero feedback. for delay im useing an ibanez but pretty soon i might order a lonewolf. the BBE two timer that jason uses sounds just like the boss but with a nicer tone. theres also the MXR carbon copy. my friend has one an it sounds real nice.
Last Edited by on May 24, 2009 2:46 PM
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Ray
23 posts
May 24, 2009
2:54 PM
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Dan Echo by Danelectro is a good affordable delay pedal. I picked up one in mint condition on ebay for $30 About as close to an analog sound you can get for the money. A lot of feedback can be controlled by how close and where you stand in relation to your amp.
High impedance Shure controlled magnetic and controlled reluctance elements are notorious for feed back. In-line volume controls are expensive but are well worth having. A lot cheaper than any anti-feedback device available that I am aware of.
You want vintage tone, use vintage equipment.
Last Edited by on May 25, 2009 3:17 AM
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JoshTheMagish
11 posts
May 24, 2009
3:35 PM
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a good practice amp to start with that is a really good amp is a roland cube. It has models of several popular amps, i use it on a fender twin reverb setting. it also has built in delay/reverb and chorus/flang/trem/phaser.
it has a setting for vocal mic which is nice if you don;t have a pa but want to amplify a acoustic harmonica sound.
runs on batteries or ac and is a mere 100 bucks.
hard to beat i think.
I also use a valve Jr head/cab no mods that i really like. if you go that routine you will need at least a reverb/delay... sound is just to dry without it( on any amp IMH). i use a bbl two timer analog. i also run a compressor on it.
my mic experience is not great. i use a bottle o blues mostly. i prefer it over a shure green bullet i have.
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Micha
3 posts
May 27, 2009
2:12 AM
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Thanks a lot everybody for the great responses!
I've ordered myself the mic and amp.
Once I get them and tested them a little, I'll probably be back with some more questions :-).
Thanks!
Micha
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Micha
8 posts
Jun 02, 2009
8:38 AM
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Hi everybody!
Got the mic, and it has a volume control!
Just played it on a digital guitar pedal from a friend, which had the function 'Tube' it. Sounded really cool for my first amplification experience :-).
Is a real tube amp like the Gretsch even better?
One more question: my friend told me he could output his 'solid state' guitar amplifier (the pedal too) to his headphone. That way he can play without anyone else noticing it. Is that possible with the Gretsch, because on the picture I don't see how it can be done.
Thanks in advance!
Micha
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MJ
42 posts
Jun 02, 2009
8:43 AM
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I always laugh when I visualize someone playing an amped harmonica with headphones. Is that so no one else has to hear it, or so you can't hear other people asking you to stop? LOL
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Maciekdraheim
36 posts
Jun 02, 2009
10:17 AM
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Gretsch, just like the smaller Harley Benton, Epi Junior or Fender Champion 600 doesn't have the headphones output, so I can't plug headphones into it.
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Micha
10 posts
Jun 02, 2009
2:46 PM
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That's a pitty.
Is there an amp who has almost the same sound as this one, with the headphone output? Or is it gonna cost me alot more than it's worth?
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JoshTheMagish
19 posts
Jun 02, 2009
8:40 PM
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im tellin ya check out the roland microcube. it has amp models for fender twin reverb and others, and built in BOSS effects. it really sounds great. you can plug in head phones...
i use mine i plug in my mp3 play and jam along with tracks so the sounds is all comming from the same source.
only 99 - 125 bucks
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JoshTheMagish
20 posts
Jun 02, 2009
8:41 PM
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oh and if you want a bigger amp with more power they make a larger one the roland cube
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Micha
11 posts
Jun 03, 2009
5:01 AM
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Thanks for the advice! I'm going to check out that Cube!
What do you guys think about getting a Line 6 POD XT or Behringer V-AMP 2? (Amp emulators?)
Can their sound come close to a traditional tube amp? It allready has effects built in, so it is gonna cost me a lot less.
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RyanMortos
186 posts
Jun 03, 2009
5:52 AM
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What kind of mic could you recommend for a roland microcube for under $200? Id prob be interested in something dynamic but better then bottle of blues model. What are the differences between roland microcube &, say, the little pignose thing thats also $100? Id like my first set up to be under $300 & be able to get away with use in front of small audiences.
----------
~Ryan
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
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JoshTheMagish
21 posts
Jun 03, 2009
11:49 AM
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well for one the roland has GOOD models of several heavey hitter amps ( marshall, fender, roland trem, etc )
built in effects. has a setting for vocal mic, has aux input and headphone jack.
i think it sounds better. I am so impressed by the black label model (fender twin) im thinking of getting a larger one like a cube 30 or 60 and using it as a primary amp
mics are tough. you could prolly grab a shure sm57 used for 50 - 60. bottle of blues is better then you think tho. i like it far better then a green bullet
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MJ
43 posts
Jun 05, 2009
7:34 PM
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Micha, I have found (was sent) a simple schematic for adding a headphone jack to an amplifier. If it works well I will let you know. Something you could add to your own amp. I am told that the tone suffers some in the translation.
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