Ok, so I just got a lesson fom Chris Michalek over skype. It wasnt what I expected. I was the best lesson ever, I can't believe how much I have learned. This guy really knows his stuff. There is no way that you cannot become a better musician after taking his lessons. No, not just a better harp player, but an better overall musician. It was truly amazing. If you can, I implore you to take at a lesson. Their like pringles; you can't stop at just one. (Warning: if you can't take complete unabashed honesty about your playing and arn't open to new stuff, find somebody else). ---------- Brandon Bailey
Brandon, I'm glad you said "if you can't take complete unabashed honesty about your playing and arn't open to new stuff, find somebody else." Good for you.
I for one am completely baffled by the current trend of encouragement for encouragement's sake - tell 'em they can do anything if they try. Positive thinking works. Tell them they're great even when they're not. This is how you end up with the poor saps on American Idol who've obviously been told how GREAT they are! (Oh, don't tell him the truth - who are YOU to take away his dreams!" ) And they can't sing. Not even close. No pitch, no rhythm. They Can't Sing! They SUCK! And they DON'T KNOW IT because everyone has been telling them how great they are. It's crap! What a terrible thing to do to someone - leads them to nothing but embarrassment and humiliation, when all the time they should have been guided to find something they might actually have a chance at and encouraged to pursue that.
Some people simply aren't made to play harmonica. Some people just don't have musical genes, simple as that. I personally don't want to waste my time at something I'm no good at. I also sincerely want to improve so I have no time for people blowing smoke up my ass. I want constructive criticism and you know what? My self-esteem is good enough that I can take it! If it wasn't, I could never be a decent musician because I'd never have faith in my OWN opinion. I want honest teachers like Chris. Doesn't mean they have to be rude - just honest. There is a way to be honest and caring/gentle at the same time. But I'd rather have honest and brutal rather than gentle and dishonest.
In American Idol terms, I'd much rather have Simon Cowell as my critic, not Paula Abdul.
---------- /Greg
http://www.BlowsMeAway.com http://www.BlueStateBand.net
Last Edited by on May 30, 2009 11:51 PM
Greg, I dig what you're saying regarding having a good critic and the effects of not being told the gods honest truth.
However, I HIGLY DISAGREE With your statement:
"Some people simply aren't made to play harmonica. Some people just don't have musical genes"
I think some people are born to be genius, and not everyone can be a genius (in academics or music) but I don't think people are necessarily predisposed to "music genes" I always hated that train of thought.
Anyone can do anything (to a certain extent) as long as they WANT to.
I have to agree with Greg on this one. BTW- thanks Greg. Not everybody is cut out to be a singer or a dancer or a harmonica player or a construction worker people are just different.
When I'm not doing harmonica stuff, I train dogs and let me tell you, the people in that world are completely different than the people in the music world. In my dog club, everyone is a Cop, fireman, former military etc... you know a "man's man" kind of guy like Buzadero ('cept he wears a scarf). These are the kind of people who when angry, have nearly come to blows and then they go out and have a drink.
Yes I know there are some people like that in the music world but as a whole creative types are just not like that. All of those guy always make fun of me in one way or another. "Let's face it Chris, you're just not a real hard guy but we like you anyway" They always try to get me involved in things like shooting shit out in the desert, or knife fighting or how to defend yourself when you're unarmed and they have a bat... seriously!! There was a time one of the guys bet me that I couldn't hit him with a stick. In the end, I had to buy breakfast for the group and I ended up on my back FOUR times. In four tries with a PVC pipe I couldn't hit this guy ONCE. BTW- "Chris, you're kind of a soft guy and you need to know how to protect yourself..."
The point is people are just different and you can see it for yourself if you watch TV. I totally got sucked into American Idol this year and now have been watching So you think you can Dance. I seriously used to NEVER watch TV unless it was MN Vikings football and now I watch some of the biggest rubbish on TV. The AI kids are mostly serious and introverted people whereas the SYTYCD kids are all very emotional and extroverted. Very different.
But, I get something out this crap. I think if you're a young musician, you SHOULD watch American Idol. Look at what they make those kids do. Sing music in genres they don't like and force them to take a song and make it their own. They say from the beginning they are looking for artistry and if you watch it enough, you can see what they are saying and how the contestants do it.
One bit of the lesson with Brandon last night was he has to play a popular harmonica song. And for me as a teacher I looked for ways that he could related to doing it properly, "Brandon do you watch American Idol" "Yes" "Do you see how they tell those kids to take a song and make it their own?" "Yes" "Some versions are fantastic while other singers make it sound karaoke" That was a light bulb moment for him.
My method of teaching is very different from most teachers. I teach light bulb moments. I teach people like I train dogs. Create a pathway and make the subject think they are doing it themselves. Then they realize they actually are doing it. Like teaching a dog to sit....hold a treat high above it's head and the second his but hits the floor BAM a treat comes out of nowhere with the other hand. The dog learns quickly if I do X then Y will happen.
I also break people down to their foundations and then build them up correctly. There were some hard moments of truth for Brandon last night but he gets it now and you all should seriously watch out for him in the future because armed with his new perspective, his amazing level of dedication to detail and his natural brillance, nothing is going to stop him.
Back to the original point, no not everybody is cut out to do something because they want to. I'm sure everybody here would like to, has wishes for or wants to be a gazillionaire. How many actually are? Not me.
I think most people fall into a natural course of action and through those actions they become one thing or another and sometimes both if they are especially gifted. Let's look at the harmonica world and guys like Howard Levy who I think is a guy who has both musicianship and talent.
There are other players like Sandy Weltman, Jason Rosenblatt, Otavio Castro and many more that have a near equal knowledge of theory and harmony as Howard yet none of them can play at Howard's level. There is something special about Howard. He's simply more creative and he's dialed into levels of music that most will never achieve and that's the stuff you can't get no matter how hard you try. It's also the stuff I try to teach but even then it's clear to me that some people simply are not capable of doing it to that level. Guys like Brandon, Zack Pomerleau and Jay Gaunt have the ability to dial in deep and they have the biggest chance to make the largest leaps.
Oda said "Anyone can do anything (to a certain extent) as long as they WANT to"
OK - you qualified it with "to a certain extent" so your statement is irrefutable. But just in case you mean "Anyone can do anything as long as they WANT to", (there certainly ARE people who believe this) this is precisely what I'm ranting about:
No - they can't. That statement is among several that fall into the same category of thought I'm talking about. It sounds nice but it just isn't true. I know some really smart people who can't spell. Some people can, some people can't. I know some foreigners who speak english with no discernible accent. I know a couple of PhD's who have lived here for 30 years, speak perfect english and still have such thick accents it is hard to understand them. Some people can, some people can't. And I have a friend who has wanted to be a blues singer for years and years. He really tries. And he can't sing. He has no sense of pitch. He listens to blues constantly. He sings every song using a maximum of 3 notes. Some people can, some people can't.
Some people have bona fide disorders that interfere with their ability to perceive pitch, intervals or rhythm. These disorders are described in a book called "Musicophilia" by famed neurologist Oliver Sacks. I recommend the book - it is absolutely fascinating.
Wanting to (sadly) just isn't enough.
Last Edited by on May 31, 2009 8:03 AM
WHAAAAT!! I need more than 3 notes????? Oh crap!!!!! Gotta go find a fourth note, I had a B flat around here somewhere!!! ---------- If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!
Last Edited by on May 31, 2009 9:05 AM
So I don't go in for that (Ivon pavlov dogs technique)
Yes it is a way of learning alright, call and response."
Most people don't know how to train dogs at a high level. You have create pathways for success. You have to add pressure and then know when to release it at the correct moment to create "lightbulb" moments. You have to be extremely consistent in teaching so no confusion is created.
My methods of teaching have been VERY VERY successful. And everybody I have taught leaves the lesson with a feeling of WOW.
Greg, the encouragement for encouragement sake is not just in our community. it how people are right now.
in the magic (magician) community people do the same thing. awful, i mean awful stage performers and sleight of hand performers ask for feedback and if you say anything negitive, you get attacked back or they have a excuse.
people don't want to practice to get good. they want to be good already. its a instant gradifcation world
Interesting thoughts. This article might back up what Greg was saying. It seems, like pretty much all behaviour, musical ability may well be genetically determined...
Chris has 'harsh' words that are meant to do good. If you can't deal with it, fine, that's cool. Personally, I will deal with it. Shall I learn from a random Blues guy or a Diatonic player who plays Chromatically, and also good...Which one do you think I'll choose?
harshness has shock value. Like throwing a bucket of ice water on a person to get their attention. When you have somebody full attention that's when things sink in. The other way to make words sink into a person's head is to whisper but that gets a little weird unless it's a significant other or high end escort.
Buddah say "harshness has shock value. Like throwing a bucket of ice water on a person to get their attention. When you have somebody full attention that's when things sink in."
Ahh, but harshness can put people on the defensive, and make them less receptive to learning or discourse of any kind. (Dogs too.) Surely you've encountered that?
There are often more effective ways of getting a point across. Different people respond to different things - and if you limit your approach to the brutally honest 'you suck, deal with it' attitude, you reduce your effectiveness. I'm just using that as an extreme example to make my point, not claiming that's your approach.
I basically agree with you. You're speaking about talent--musical gifts. Some people have them; some people don't. Some people have much more technique than me, but they're just not very musical, or no more musical. L.D. Miller is a good example. Incredible technique, but where's the song? What does he sound like if you force him to slow down? Some people have roughly the same amount of technique as me but they're also noticeably more musical: Jimi Lee, when he's on his game, is simply much more musical, much more lyrical, and it astonishes me every time I get together with him. William Galison is a virtuoso, technically, but he's also incredibly lyrical. You can't fight that. You can't keep practicing faster and faster scales, more and more complicated runs, hoping that you get more musical. You can only do your best to hear YOUR song and bring it out with the help of technique and feeling.
In other words, not everybody was born with enough innate musicality, OR enough reflex-skill, to play the harmonica well.
But that leaves a lot of grey area. Some people aren't terribly musical, but they've got pretty good reflexes and, if they devote themselves to practice, may end up playing a kind of rough-and-ready harp that will enable them to get up at the occasional open mike or even join a mediocre band. And that's great, as far as I'm concerned. More power to them.
Other people will never get the hang of the technical side of the harp, but they're actually very musical. They hear a song inside them. And as a harmonica teacher, I think it's important to teach these people how to bring that song out, even if they'll probably never join a band. Because you just don't know what they'll end up doing with their music, once the ability to express even a little of it has been granted to them through my instruction and their own hard work.
In my experience, this second sort of person often does two things with their music: 1) they enjoy it greatly in the privacy of their own homes--as an after-hours diversion, as something to share with family and friends; and 2) the soulfulness that they're now actively engaging with on the musical side often insists on expressing itself in some entirely unforseen way. They end up volunteering at a hospital, for example, and playing their (bad) harmonica for bedridden senior citizens who greatly enjoy it.
We need to keep in mind that the commodified public sphere--with American Idol at the peak, and the "blues world" of clubs and festivals down below--is a fairly recent phenomenon in history of music. For centuries, being a musician consisted of making your own instrument and playing it for family and friends. Their were castes of "serious" musicians, griots and the like, and they had their own inner-circle rituals. But there was also a lot of community music-making by spirited amateurs. Read COAL MINER'S DAUGHTER by Loretta Lynn. She grew up in that kind of environment. Singing at home with her family, etc. Eventually she made it out into the commodified public sphere--the "country music world"--but that isn't the only way to go, and it's standards aren't the only standards we might have.
So while I mostly agree with you--some people have talent, some don't, and it's a mistake to coddle those who don't if they harbor ambitions of becoming the next big thing--I also think it's important to remember that there's a whole other way of thinking about music, including our beloved harmonica. Bad harmonica playing has its place.
Basically, as long as you can play "Oh Susannah" with a strong groove, you're ready for the bars. That's what I tell my private students at the end of the first lesson. Tap your foot! I tell them. You need to keep that groove :)
Last Edited by on Jun 01, 2009 7:01 AM
"Ahh, but harshness can put people on the defensive, and make them less receptive to learning or discourse of any kind. (Dogs too.) Surely you've encountered that?"
That's EXACTY right except is doesn't make them less receptive to learning. And that's how you train dogs to gain confidence. Push them the edge of a cliff and quickly changed their course because it then makes them feel like they've won because they held their ground and fought back.
Think about this... ever been a car accident or real fight? Notice how you mind spins on the event afterwards?
Whether or not you agree with me, people are animals and like all animals there are certain things that drive a person. When you understand all of those drives and know how to shift a person from one drive to the next then you can channel drives into each other to create balance.
I'm sure many of you have dogs. When you're sitting around or out and about you can call the dog and it will come or sit or lay down. But what happens when a cat runs across your path and you dog chases it? Can you say Sit, Lay Down or Come? and will it do it? Unless you REALLY know how to train dogs it won't. Try tossing a ball and see if you can get your dog to sit on a dime and stop chasing the ball. I bet you can't.
So why doesn't the dog listen to you when it's chasing a cat? Because the dog is in "drive" or focus mode. There are a couple of different drives but I won't go in to them. The way to get a dog to come while in that mode is to train in that mode. It's very intense and very focused and the animal is very open to learning.
I've never told anyone they suck but to use your example...
You suck I don't suck YES you do suck NO I DON'T!!! Show me how you don't [student plays....] I guess you don't totally suck but play the same thing and do THIS instead of THAT. [student plays...] Hear the difference? Yeah!!! NOW you don't suck at all! That was great!!! WOW, I didn't know I could do that.
Last Edited by on Jun 01, 2009 7:09 AM
Teacher: My gosh Timmy, you play harmonica like a pro -- and after only 2 lessons. Here's a trophy!
Student: Hmmm. I thought I sucked, but you must know you're talking about, after all you're a teacher. I think I'll quit my job, leave my family and go to Nashville.
2.
Teacher: Damn it Timmy! That was terrible! You're not doing what I said to do! WHY???
Student: Bite me, a-hole! [Student cancels future lessons, becomes bitter and develops a hatred of all things musical]
3. (ness' way)
Teacher: You are doing pretty good, but there are some things I think need improvement. Blah, blah, blah. Let's work on those until we've mastered them and then move on to even more interesting stuff!
Student: Thank you, kind sir. You certainly have a way about you. It puts me at ease, and makes me very receptive to learning. I'd like to sign up for two years worth of lessons, and order a complete set of those custom harps you've been hawking. Also, my dog won't quit pooping on the carpet -- can you help me with that? I'd pay BIG money!
I think we'd all agree that example 3 is the best outcome. :)
Last Edited by on Jun 01, 2009 7:49 AM
completely disagree unless you want to create a ***** harp player. Where's the passion? The energy? Those two things are WAY more important than technique and notes.
I create musicians.
The way I teach is on YouTube and hopefully people like Brandon, Zhin and Zack will chime in on my methods. Let's hear it from a student perspective.
Music as a whole is not taught correctly. It's a language, think about how you learned to speak. How you learned inject passion into your words. How you can make people cry, feel loved or angered. Music can do this too.
Last Edited by on Jun 01, 2009 7:51 AM
If you really think a teach like the one in option three would make me sign up for a few years worth of lessons and buy a bunch of harmonicas, you are crazy. Lets sort of demonstrate a little of how Buddha teaches.
He'll send you a track lets say. He'll then go, "find the right key harmonica." Then he'll say "try to play along." Now, when you do, he'll honestly say, your tone isn't good, blah blah blah, but that's not the same as saying YOU SUCK. There is a difference between, "You have pretty good tone, but it could be worked on" and "You have weak tone." Notice they both encourage improvement? The first one is the easy way out, because the student assumed they won't have to work as hard. The second way is correct, as it is true, but it also leaves room for improvement. If someone just said you suck, and you are paying them for lessons you are not very intelligent.
Chris's lessons are not for everyone, but he is going to be hard on you because he plays stuff that most don't play. I want to play JAZZ, BLUES, ROCK, COUNTRY, POP, EVERYTHING!!! IF you want to do that you need a teacher that will kick you on the ground and break your arms and legs and then force you to get up. Otherwise you would never learn. Of course, some want to do only rock, or blues, and that is great. But it still takes some hard work.
Last Edited by on Jun 01, 2009 8:19 AM
I'm on skype chris.michalek hit me up sometime and we'll spend a few minutes to see where you are and you can experience it yourself so there are no more assumptions.
Last Edited by on Jun 01, 2009 8:37 AM
Have any of you here ever seen Part two of Kill Bill were Pai Mei teaches Beatrix how to fight better? Have any of you ever seen the original Drunkin Master movie starring Jackie Chan were Su Hua Chi teaches Jackie the Drunkin Style. In booth of these films, and many other martial arts films, the old mystical master of the art instructs the student in the secrets of martial arts. The old gruff masters are always very hard on the students letting them know that their fighting skills are very subpar despite what the student may think. To prove their point, the master will often challenge the student in combat. The student always looses horribly. After having faced horrible defeat, the student realizes that he/she has much to learn and full devotes their attention to the tutilage from the master. With time, and much grueling work, the student then becomes a master him/her self.
Chris' instruction is very much like this. He will let you know right off what is wrong with your playing, with no fluff to make it sound sweet. He is very direct, which gives you a sense of reality. Much like Morpheus in the Matrix films, he will open your eyes to the reality of your skill.
Yes, he may get on you nerves at first, but it will only make you stronger. I good student will be able to see through the harshness as something that is very beneficial. ---------- Brandon Bailey
No really, I was. Example 1, 2 and 3 were *all* caricatures. Sure, there's a little bit of an underlying message, but I'm not out to criticize your approach. Just suggesting there's maybe more than one way to skin the cat.
I've seen what you've written, watched a couple of your videos, and I've seen others descriptions of your teaching methods. Nothing in all that scares me away.
I can tell you where I am in all this: I suck. My goal is to not suck. I'm trying to learn this strictly for fun. I'm not looking to do public performances or change careers, just maybe play stuff around friends and family. Exercise the brain a little, add to my repertoire of mediocre skills.
My mother has Alzheimer's. Through Adams teachings (which go beyond blowing harp), I'm able to take my bad playing and put it to good use. Helping settle my mothers mind and bring her joy. She carries a harp in her purse. We make "music" for the joy of it.
There are other things that are very much on the positive side of things like my inventory of appropriate musicians. I listen to so much music of vastly difference styles I have a virtual database of appropriate musicians in my head for the student.
I don't teach players to be like me or to play like me. I do my best to bring out the best in the student. Once it was identified what Brandon wanted to do, I turned him on to very good musicians in his chosen style - like Andrew Winton and Bjorn Berge
EXACTLY what needs to be done. Chris has sent me links to classical artists, Jazz artists, everyone. If you wanna go solo, I'm sure of it that he can help you out!!! Bjorn is great!!!
Why defeat yourself before you start. I doubt you suck and even if you do there is no reason to tell yourself such things. If you're going to chose to suck then do it with passion. It's hard to intentionally suck at anything.
In the music world you come across guys that see things one way,its black or white nothing else.
It's their way or no way. That's fine for a few, It's idealistic and I don't buy into it.
They constantly have to tell everyone how great they are because they are a somebody.Bit like graduating from West point and then going down the local station looking for salutes.
It dosen't take much to work out why they have to do it.
I'm a nobody but I have been around quite a few who were somebodies and none of them ever needed to go looking for salutes.
Folk learn in very different ways.
The Idealists, have a place in the Art world for sure but I don't like it.
Yes there are more ways than one to skin a cat but we all pretty much have our own ONE way of doing it. If I don't like your way then I will find a way that I like. If you don't like my way then its up to you to find away that you like.
I don't fault you for seeing things your way and expect others not to fault me for seeing things my way.
We all walk our own paths and if I like the way you cleared your path and choose to explore it I will but I would be an asshole to tell you that the way you cleared your path could have been done differently as it then would not be the same path. So in that SENSE there is ONE way to do things but many people doing it.
In this case One = infinity
Last Edited by on Jun 01, 2009 10:09 AM
buddah thanks for posting that video of andrew. never heard it before i realy like it alot.
also this thread reminds me of the movie crossroads how he keeps being mean to the kid every time he thinks hes doing good. an at one point he fights back then the guy says something like "oh your never gonna get no where if you keep thinking your robert johnson! like your the next big thing for the blues! how you gonna learn anything new if you think you know every thing?"
free session with the purchase of a harp or $90/session which is always at least an hour but I like to go until the student is at the point of becoming overwhelmed.
most sessions are around 1 1/2 hours but I have gone up to four hours. My focus is on the student not the time or the money. The $90 is set at the point that I feel comfortable not working on harps for awhile. I think of it as a gig.
Last Edited by on Jun 01, 2009 12:54 PM
Chris's teaching methods are solid. He designs them to provide what the student expects AND needs.
He doesn't teach me crap I don't want to know unless it directly affects something that I do want to work on.
I personally feel that I can openly talk to him about everything I know as a harp player and my future plans as a one. I don't feel threatened or have something to protect when I'm interacting with him. I'm comfortable enough to let him influence some of those plans because that's just how well he knows what he's doing. (you don't have to let him though, but I do)
He's definately aware of the tremendous responsibility that it is when it comes to being an influence on his students.
At the end of the day, if I'm not getting any better I know I only have myself to blame for not putting in enough hours. It's nice to have that kind of confidence when you're learning.
Me and Zhin know Chris pretty well. He's right. There have been times when Chris starts questioning me and then goes, "do you see what I am doing," or something like that, and then it hits you how important it it. He just knows on some subjects.
