Today I went smaller amp hunting at my local music store. I played through a blackheart 1w and the 15 models with a 1x10 black heart cab, also a fender woody, pro jr, champ and a blues deluxe with 2x12. The fender blues deluxe was the winner by far. I walked out empty handed. Non of these amps are nearly as good as mine, a Sonny Jr 410. The other amps may sound ok but the SJR amps just flat out blow them away, but that is just one man's opinion. The ones I can't try are the HarpGear 2 and double trouble models. Has anyone compaired the HG's to the SJR?
Last Edited by on Jun 02, 2009 1:09 AM
I haven't compared them but I can tell you that I own a Harpgear 2 and it is my favorite amp (I like it better than my Spirit Harp Pro and my Premier Model 50). It is small and compact but has a line out for going right into the PA. I think a small amp with a line out is the way to go vs. a big heavy amp that you have to crank to get "the tone".
As mentioned a few weeks back, the so-called Blues Luggage 'Sonny Boy' is a handwired Champ tube circuit in a tweed case. I'm really getting to like mine a lot.
Big amps sound good because of presents. They move a lot of air and that makes them sound big and full. The problem I have had is dynamics on stage. It's just so damn loud I can't hear everything as well as should! A small amp can take care of a couple issues. So many people don't understand the importance of practicing amped up. If you play amped. Then you should practice that way. I have a two watt amp I practice with at home and have a line out for gigging! My son said it's like Hanna Montana (best of both worlds). I said what! Then he said it again. I said son, you worry me some times! He asked me why? I told him when I was his age I listened to ZZ top. That was good music! He then asked me(and I quote) Oh do they have boobs?
I'm a big fan of Sonny Jr amps. I've played through Scott's Meteor and Brian Purdy's amps too. And I like them. Wish I could own all of them. The key point here is that ANY amp built specifically for harp will be a better amp. You can chase modifications on a standard guitar amp but its a sure bet you'll end up spending more than the premium you'd pay for one of these "guaranteed to sounds good for harp" amps.
I'm not sure what Buddha is referring to about Sonny Jr- nor do I care. When it comes to >$1K decisions and personal relationships I tend to rely on my own judgement and instincts heavily. I bought my first Sonny Jr amp (A 410) something like 6 years ago. It got me my first gigs. I now own a Cruncher too. In that time I've gotten to know Gary (Sonny Jr) pretty well. He's an odd guy but he has ALWAYS treated me fairly - he goes overboard to support his customers - and he knows tone like nobody else I know.
I can also tell you you will find NOTHING in your local music store, NOTHING, nada, zip, zilch, zero, NOTHING... as good as any of the amps I mentioned in the first paragraph.
---------- /Greg
http://www.BlowsMeAway.com http://www.BlueStateBand.net
Last Edited by on Jun 02, 2009 9:16 AM
go to http://www.sonnyjr.com - email him for prices.
In my book, the Cruncher has the best tone of any harp amp I've ever heard - and it is extremely versatile. With a 12 and 2 8's, it is small enough to deliver good tone at lower volumes - and capable of holding its own at any reasonable gig. And for those unreasonable ones, the line-out circuit delivers exceptionally good tone through the house sound system. I set it up every week at our pro jam with one of my wood mics and every harp player (including Mark Hummel) who shows up is happy to to play through it. After hearing it nobody insists on using their amp.
OK, one guy did. He ended up using mine anyway because he couldn't be heard.
Greg, Is your woody a bullet and what's under the grill. I just went to your site and have more questions? I like the Red Shure 57 mic with the volume nob in the sample photo. If it will meet my needs spelled out below will you quote me a price with shipping to Hawaii? we can make contact through your site if you like. My Tuner+2 bullet has a volume nob and I use it often. What I am looking for is a mic that will allow me to get more of a wah sound when I wanna wah. My Turner is big and fills most of the hand cup which equals less pronounced wah. Do you have any suggestions based on the amp I use?
Last Edited by on Jun 02, 2009 8:00 PM
I believe the amp Chris has is the HarpGear 5F1. It has an incredible sound. It has been superseded by the HarpGear 2 which is also a killer amp, just ask Adam Gussow! I have played a lot of amps (vintage and new) over the years and to me the HarpGear is the best to my ear.
for some reason when i decided to buy another amp last year for guitar , I went for a fender custom vibrolux, but if you stick a harp mic through the normal cahnnel , have the treble rolled back , bass up to 7or 8 reverb off it become s a great harp ampwhich doesn't feedback as much as my british amps ( laney vc30 and a '64 selmer zodiac) also a friend , west weston uses stock 59 bassman reissue and doesnt need to spend over and above for a dedicated harp amp! I'm sure the harpgear and sonny jr make fine amps , but like any boutique amp builder , you pays yer money! It's funny coz i bet players like little walter etc didn't use dedicated harp amps and they're tones were legendary , same goes for custom harps ? as Adam Gussow uses stock marine band , and he seems to get the best out of what has always been an industry satndard professional harmonica , why spend money on anything else?
Last Edited by on Jun 03, 2009 6:45 PM
I put crystals, CMs and CR's in my shells. The overwhelming majority are CM's - best tone per $$ and other advantages too.
Ultimate 57's are $219; $129 if you supply the "donor" 57. Loads more info on my web site - please do contact me by email if you have further questions!
P.S. -Although the Turners are uncomfortable to cup well because of the fin, you should be able to get a good WAH from any of these mics. Mine are more comfortable making it easier. But my guess is your problem is in the front, not the back of your grip. See related threads on sealing the front of the harp.
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck9SBiZw2ds (acoustic) and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcEQZApX5NU (amplified)
---------- /Greg
http://www.BlowsMeAway.com http://www.BlueStateBand.net
Last Edited by on Jun 04, 2009 9:39 AM
to Buddha. I agree that the older amps wre built better, and easier to fix too as they use tag boards etc to wire everything to , I'm still hloding up for standard harps though as they were always designed as a cheap musical instrument but the modern requirments i suppose may warrent them having to be upgraded . at the end of the day , how much are you willing to shell out for a rig and what kind of use it get etc etc
That 5w luggage amp is is comparable to a Harpgear? or is it a novelty item. It looks cool and functional but is it loud enough and how's the tone? What did you pay for it?
i have a double trouble harp gear amp. when i got it i wasnt too to happy with it,it was loud without feedback but i didnt like the tone it wasnt defined at all.i tried a bunch of different tubes, but it didnt make much of a difference until i changed all the tubes to braimer and the sound now is incredible. i also own a SJ2 6X8 SPEAERS, 57 DELUXE REISSUE, FENDER BASSMAN, plus a stack of other amps it is definetly the best tone. my point is change the tubes . it will improve the amp a 100 times. The double trouble is amazing. The DT SOUNDED LOUD BEFORE BUT NOT DEFINED. WITH THE VALVE CHANGE IT RIPS OUT THE FRONT OF THE SPEAKER IT HAS ALL THE BASS BUT THE SOUND IS SHARP AS WELL. ITS A STRANGE SOUNDING AMP. NOT THE BROWN CREAMY SOUND OF LOTS OF HARMONICS NOR IS IT A VINTAGE SOUND. BUT A VERY SIMPLE SOUND, SHARP. IT CUTS THROUGH A MIX AND NOT AS EASY TO GET LOST, BUT IT WILL STILL NEED TO BE PUT THROUGH THE PA IF YOUR WITH A LOUD BAND. THOUGH IT IS DEFINETLY THE LOUDEST AMP FOR ITS SIZE THAT I'VE PLAYED. A VERY WELL BALANCE SOUND
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2010 7:09 PM
I have a Harpgear HG2 and I love it. I use it for blues jams, gospel jams, and yiddish music. Despite the very simple controls it just flat out does the job and does it well. I can get a bright tone when I want it and I can make it crunchy when I want that. It has a line out for a PA and seems to not mind being lugged around in the cold weather. Brian Purdy was great to work with as well.
I have no experience with Sonny's smaller amps but have had a chance to play with the Cruncher and the 410 and they are great amps. I've played the smaller Harpgear and they are great. I thought the HG2 was a little too farty on the bottom end but I think it's the way the owner had it dialed in. I guess he liked it that way. Talking quality Harp amp you have to list it as a tie between Harpgear and Sonny Jr #1 and #1a the only thing is Sonny has been doing it longer.
I've tried all of the boutique amps, Harpgears 30 (my amp) and 50, Sonny Junior 4x10 and Sonny Junior 2, the meteor (i don't know which one), the Wezo 40, and the, surprisingly unmentioned, 50 watt Harpking.
My least favorites right out of the gate were the Sonny Juniors. Although still great, they were a little too treble-y for my taste. The sound also seemed to lack definition, if that makes sense.
If I were Kim Wilson or Mark Hummel I would probably go w/ the Meteor. It has an AWESOME traditional blues tone, but that's its only gear.
The Wezo is a phenomenal amp. Really diverse, great blues tone (David Barrett swears by it), yet also great, defined, modern-sounding, jason ricci-esque tone. It's on the top of my list for my next amp purchase.
I played through Dennis's harpking at a gig once and I loved it. Sounds exactly like a sax, well the way he dialed it in. It also is the best amp out there for blues chromatic, bar none. Its an amazing blues harp amp, but for me, who plays a 57 or an Re-10 instead of a bullet, its not quite my for me, I don't think. Great amp though.
As much as a dig the amps that I mentioned, harpgear is my favorite. I own a harpgear 30, and it does almost exactly what I want it to. It gets some nice litle-walter sounds, but, more to my liking, it gets that cool, modern, defined Jason Ricci distortion. However, the 50 is a much better amp than the 30. It has so much cool nuance that just couldn't be fit into the small 30 watt package. However both are great choices, as 50 watts is sometimes just too much.
In comparing rigs in my vicinity, it seems that the amp of choice is the Fender Blues Jr. ...probably for the price and availability. It certainly is loud enough for most small to medium venues, but it never attains the tone and warmth that a decent harp amp should have. This is with four different players/units. I tested out a guitar friends Epihone Valve Jr. and it had much better tone, but only at lo-volume. Once cranked, it too had tone issues ( for me ). One pro player has several rigs, but his main gigging one is a rather beat up 2X12 Tweed that he says is an off brand, but I would swear is an old Peavey Classic 50's combo. Sounds pretty good at lo-vol, but I have heard it when it was not. I used to have a Peavey like that. I'm guessing he's modded it for a better harp sound. Another long time pro plays thru a Bassman 4X10 that sounds great for harp, but the fellow can only seem to play LOUD. Just sounds too harsh for my tastes. One more talented harper uses an Ampeg Jet that is just a little bit less loud and harsh than the Bassman. More of a disciplined player also ( not as hyper as the Bassman guy ).
For myself, I'm lovin' the vintage sound I'm getting from the Blackheart Handsome Devil BH-15H piggyback, but only after much experimentation / tube swapping / mic configs and settings. My other BIG rig is a 1971 Traynor YGL-3 MkIII that I have had to tame with lower gain pre-amp tubes and other methods. It had always been a choice of fair tone with acceptable volume, but only on one channel or the other; until I found the right tube to use as the phase inverter....an Amperex 7062. Now, the clean channel is just loud enough and actually has some Butterfield-like distortion. Channel two is warm and fat. Don't use this much except for outdoor gigs or large indoors. Even with wheels, the 80+ pounds is UGH!
Don't know about Alligator amps. Marble is another eorupean manufacturer that makes custom harps for harp. I have 7W Marble Max which has got very nice tone, line out for PA's and it looks nice too. Quite similar to HG2 I've understood.
If I ever need bigger amp I think I'd try HG50 or HG35
In my opinion the best current production Fender amp for harmonica is the '65 Blackface Princeton Reverb Reissue. I have one and it's my favourite amp for gigging.
The Princeton amps in all it's various forms is a classic harmonica amp that has been used by everyone from Big Walter to David Barrett, Bill Barrett and Steve Baker to name just a few.
Little Joe, The Epi Vjr is a great starting platform but you need to do some mods to make it a great Harp Amp. The treble cut gets you out of some of those "problems" when driven hard
I'm from Europe and buyed a HarpGear 2 end of last year. I loke the sound very very much and also other musicians ask me often from where I took that little-big-tone-monster.
All the other harp-amps described above are good enough to do a very good job for a harp player but the tiny differences are even subjectivly. The HG2 meets exactly my wishes of sound!
The luck for us in Europe is, that the relation between Euro and Dollar is a big advantage at the moment, so it makes American products cheaper than European once despite the tax and duty.
For bigger audiences I use a 1971 Fender Super Reverb, which is modified for harp and sound as good now as the original 59' Bassman or a Sonny Jr FourTen, believe me - it's been tested. I choised this way, cause I had very much luck to get the SR very cheap here years ago...
The Blues Luggage amps made by Chris Null are cool little Champ clones in a small tweed case. They sound better than you might expect. I like them a lot.
But, dude... I'm not "hawking" anything. I say nice things about gear that impresses me, and I pan gear that doesn't. Read my blog and you will see.
Are my reviews totally objective? Probably not. I have my preferences with respect to tone. The amps I have been previewing on my blog (the Chicago and the Memphis) are exceptional. I have zero concern about "hawking" these guys. I think you will agree after you hear them.
Also, I've done a hands-on review of the new mics from Front & Center, with the NOS crystal elements and hand-carved wooden bodies, but I am waiting for more background info before filing the article. I can tell you this: These mics have wonderful tone and a real feedback advantage over your typical bullet mic with a Shure CM/CR element.
It is my opinion that every blues player should have a small tube amp. In fact, I encourage all my beginning students to buy a simple 5-watt tube amp right away.
If a player aspires to emulate the Chicago tone, he needs an amp, and the ONLY way to learn about tube amps is to play one a lot. After playing a small 5-watt amp for a couple of years, a player will be a LOT more familiar with tube amp issues and will be likely to make a good, informed decision when it comes time to move up to a bigger perfomance amp.
And... a 5-watt tube amp always is great to have for a player at any level, for low-intensity jams or practice, and for recording. You just can't beat the tone of a barky, compressed Champ amp at full tilt.
The amp I specifically recommend for this is the HarpGear H2. It is a very fine piece of gear that will last you a lifetime. The Epiphone Valve Jr. Half Stack is another good choice.
It's taken me a whole career to get to the point where I know just how right you are. When I was playing the streets, I ended up using two Mouses, which are about 5 watts each. I got a great sound out of them. When Satan & Adam moved indoors, I somehow felt that I needed bigger amps. At one point early on I was actually using TWO blackface SuperReverbs. One had been modified and had two 12s. The other had 4 x 10. That is a sick amount of firepower--especially when you rememeber that I was playing in a duo! Insane. It only makes sense to use that much when playing with a band in a big concert hall, or outdoors.
I worked my way through a series of configurations. At one point I was using a 55 Bassman (original) and a 54 tweed Deluxe (original):
It got me a great sound, outdoors, but indoors I could never turn the Bassman up high enough.
A couple of years later I left the Bassman at home and paired the Deluxe with an early 60s Premier. That was a great combination! One twelve and two eights, with about twenty watts between them. I used that with Satan & Adam between 1995 and 1998 and it was an easy sound to work with.
Later, fairly recently, I did another test and realized that my ears had developed and I wanted even more sag in my sound; something softer AND nastier. So I left the Deluxe in the closet and paired the Premiere with a cranked-up Mouse and then, ultimately, a little 5 watt Kay. That last combination is what I'm using here, and it's clear to me, at least, that THIS is the sound I've been heading towards. Listen to how much the sound alone gives me to work with when I take my solo:
I stumbled on this combination in the summer of 2008. I miked the Kay. Little amp cranked up. Exactly what you've said. There's nothing like it. I use the Premiere as my "big" amp and the Kay as the little (and miked) "small" amp.
I agree with you 100% about the HG2. Although the Premier has a lot of character with the two 8s, the HG2 is slightly louder, slighly more of an aggressive rock-ish sound, and I love it paired with the Kay OR the Premier. Here's the latter combination:
You and I see this the same way. I wish I hadn't wasted so many years with big amps.
Last Edited by on Dec 17, 2009 1:54 PM
Small amps, from personal experience, tend to record better than large amps do, plus you don't have the constant bleed thru problem big amps have.
I just use what I need, nothing more or less. If it's a larger sized gig, I'll drag out my real '59 Bassman, but for smaller gigs, I use my '95 Pro Junior. Personally, I enjoy a gig using the Pro Junior as it's more like a Bassman at about 1/4 the volume, which is perfectly fine by me, plus it's less bulk and weight to drag around and if I don't have to bring the PA, setup and breakdown is a matter of about 5-7 minutes max.
I've used the Pro Junior on quite a few recording sessions and it works great, and it's the most powerful 15 watts in the world.
I'll tell you, the smaller, lower powered rig sure beats some of the stuff I've seen over the years for size, weight, etc.. When I used to have a pre-CBS Twin Reverb with SRO speakers in them (those speakers weighed like a ton of bricks, and the magnet alone weighed 15 lbs. each), I hated that thing at the end of the night because of dragging that weight.
I once had a pre-CBS Super Reverb that I bought from a guy who had originally bought brand new in 1965, making me the 2nd owner of that amp. Great sounding amp, nearly the weight of a Twin, but in 1983, I got rid of it for the Bassman.
The physically heaviest amp I almost bought was a brand new Ampeg VT-40 in 1976. It was pretty good for harp (the later ones weren't that good), great reverb, but it was a worse backbreaker than a Twin was. Any Ampeg amp was alway built like a freaking tank, one roadworthy muthafuyer, and a guitarist friend of mine had bought the 2-12 version known as the VT-22, which made a Twin sound like a very quiet amp, and was way heavier than a Twin with the stock speakers, an Ampeg amps were always way too conservatively rated power wise, and that amp, from the heat generated by that amp being floored, actally had the speakers go up in flames on him while he was playing. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I agree with owning and learning on a small amp. I started on a 1964, 5 watt, 1481 Sears Silvertone( the poor mans champ).Still own and play it. Theres a great Silvertone site today showing all the amps and guitars from the 40's,50's and 60's. Some of these pieces go for big bucks today. Sears was always affordable to most Americans and produced a fine product.I always have fond memories of bluesmen in the Delta in my youth playing with and through their Silvertones.
@ Rick Davis, is this the champ you are talking about?Someone is selling a fender champ 600 for $115. Anybody have on of these? Should I get it?
Last Edited by on Dec 18, 2009 1:39 AM
I agree small amps are much better (to my ear) than big amps. I never play anything over 18 watts these days unless I'm using someone else's rig.
Bluesnut the 5F1 Champ is the amp most people mean when talking about a "Champ". The Harpgear HG2 is based on this circuit. Amps like the Epiphone Valve Jr, Gibson GA-5, Kalamazoo Model 2, Silvertone, etc are also based on similar single ended Class A circuits.
If you can't afford a HarpGear HG2 (killer amp!), then I'd suggest speaking to Greg Heumann (www.blowsmeaway.com) to see if he has any Kalamazoo amps for sale (he often does).
These would be far better choices than the Champion 600 in my opinion.
New forum member here. I gig with a Premier 50, the 1x8 version, usually mic'd to the board. A lot of my gigs are little restaurants, in duos, and I sometimes can't even turn it up to its sweet zone! Last month it developed a transient dropout, so now I'm playing through a Fender Champion 600 that normally stays at home. I miss the tone control. Either amp is a joy to use. I've never tried a modern boutique miniamp and have enjoyed this discussion. John Thaden
The HarpGear Double Trouble is perfect for me. I would like to get something to pair it with for outdoor stages, but I just don't need much more amp than that ever.
It sounds good on small stages, but is perfect for the clubs we play...rooms with stages and seating for up to 300.
It is never "too loud" and I can run it behind me, sideswipe it, or use an amp stand. It takes up next to no room, sounds amazing, and can cut over a full band with keys.
I am playing a new room tonight...have no clue what it looks like, but I'll take pics of my rig and try and video tape. ---------- Mike Fugazzi http://www.myspace.com/niterailband http://www.youtube.com/user/NiteRail http://www.twitter.com/NiteRail http://www.facebook.com/mike.fugazzi
Last Edited by on Dec 18, 2009 9:13 AM
Bluesnut- Kingley is right... When I say "Champ" I'm referring to vintage Fender gear, such as my 1970 silverface Champ. There are scads of good clones, expecially the HarpGear HG2.
I've not had good luck with the new Fender Champion 600... it tends to fart out when I play it. Other harp guys like it. I think it would benefit from a speaker swap. Weber has a good 6-inch speaker upgrade for the amp.
But, if you are a tinkerer and want to learn a lot about tube amps, buy a silverface Fender Champ on eBay and start tweaking it for harp.
Here is a LINK to my blog article about my Champ project.
I keep forgetting that one of my first harp amps was a modified Ampeg Rocket. It had a 15" speaker, which is crazy for harp, but it actually sounded pretty good. Here's a normal Rocket with a 12". Cool look:
Adam, my very first tube harp amp was an Ampeg B-15N fliptop stack. It was big and and loud and looked very impressive with TWO 15-inch speakers, but didn't have the greatest harp tone.
