In other words does the listner NEED TO KNOW what the instrument is when listening to Cd dvd live etc.
Sometimes when I listen to a diatonic harp player playing jazz for example it often sounds like a jazz saxophone player or trumpet player who isn't very good.
Yet when I know it's a harp player I think wow what a genious I can't do that that's wonderful.
So was it important to know what instument they were playing.
I remember the first time I heard Stanley Jordan on record. It was Ok stuff, until I found out that it was only him playing then I thought that's brilliant.Same to some extent with some of Robert Johnson although I think a different ball park and it's brilliant on lots of different levels anyway.
Now when I listen to Kudzurunners style that's the site owner AG the those who just parachuted in.None of this seems to be going on to me. I did this experiment with a lot of my friends in the jazz world and all of them dug Kudzurunners style, and prefered it even to the wonderful Howard levy, who to me is fantastic.
Now the one thing jazzers are, are their own cats for sure They can't be manipulated no matter who they talk to.
So why do they think this way ?
What are everyones views is it important or not ?
Last Edited by on Jun 04, 2009 3:12 AM
Sopwith--I had a strong reaction to your post. I think the performance has to stand on its own merits. When you say that you didn't like a piece until you realized it was a harp--then you thought it was great. To me this illustrates what I think are the ultimate limitations of the harp. I often admire the technical skills of masters of the instrument who try to play in different idioms, but at some level it feels like a carnival act--the reaction from the audience is wow! How amazing that he can play the William Tell Overture in Carnegie Hall on a diatonic harmonica!! Not--wow what a stirring performance of the William Tell overture. I think that is one of the reasons that the Howard Levys of the harp world don't receive widespread recognition outside of the harp subculture. Instruments need to fit the music, and sometimes the harp is not the right instrument.
I know I'm taking a strong position here and curious about people's thoughts.
I agree with Hollistonharper to an extent. I just want to leave a bit of room for that boundary pusher that does manage to find a way to fit the sound of their insturment into a particular style. You just never know how some people manage to push the boundary ... still Banjo and death metal may never happen.
I dunno about this debate, surely a harmonica can be used to make great jazz. Im not all that familiar with Levy's music. Does he even have a single CD of his works for sale? It seemed to me to be more a song on this compliation & that.
Perhaps we just need to hear more harmonica in jazz.
---------- ~Ryan Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
I think that pushing boundaries with the harp or any instrument is good. When it is done successfully the effort stands on its own as good music. If the reaction is "Was that harp? Then WOW!", then perhaps the experiment was only partly successful.
I agree holistonharper, but that shouldn't stop anyone from taking chances. It takes a long time to get good at different stuff. That means your going to blow some shit for awhile. That's just part of learning! I've heard great harp players play things that I didn't like at all! I just don't react to it, because I know how hard it is. It's much easier to be a critique than a pro!
Last Edited by on Jun 05, 2009 10:01 AM
I don't think a harp player has to mimic an other instrument when playing jazz or any genre different from blues ; check this video of Thierry Crommen, probably the best harp player from Belgium (if you except Toots Thielemans, who plays only chromatic) : Thierry plays jazz on diatonic as well as chromatic, and it still sounds nothing but harp :
For example, when we listen to Doc Gussow playing The Entertainer on harp, we think 'wow' because we understand how difficult what he's doing is; that adds to our appreciation of the music.
However, put me and Doc in a bar and get him to play The Entertainer on harp and then let me play it on the piano. I suspect that most people will be more impressed with my performance. They simply wouldn't have the faintest idea of how much more skill is involved in the harp version.
So, to try and answer your question: the music is important, well, paramount. However, people are also moved by the apparent level of skill involved in making it.
That's what I think. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
The Gloth:This video man, your right it sounds like a harp player, chromatic or diatonic yes,it's immaterial to the listner.This style of rhythmic playing is very simple and dated to a modern jazz player however if I look at it purely as a body of musical work it is excellent.
Basically what I observe even if I don't favour this style is that they all tell a very good story which in essence is key to any musos playing.
For me when it comes to diatonic harp I have to say what attracts me to it is when it is played with oscillation, bends pitch etc at the extremes as a blues player.
mickil:Yea man you make Very interesting points, I could quite imagine more of less this style on chromatic harp so I understand he plays both, an interesting change.
When I mentioned the harp sounding like other instruments I wasn't meaning that was neccessarily a conscious thing by the player.
Just like blues, in Jazz you pitch your self against the best, right. So (as a soloist)Iv'e yet to hear a diatonic harp player improvising at the same level as, sax players Jerry Begonzi,who was the reason Michael Brecker botherd to still expand, Coltraine and further back Bird.
I think along similar lines when I hear jazz. I hate jazz especially the freeform stuff. To me it sounds awful but at the same time it would have to be some of the most skillful to play. It always strikes me as something that must be fun to play if you have the ability and I think wow what mastery of the instrument and understanding of music theory, but I certainly wouldn't pay money to listen to it.
