Arbite
53 posts
Jun 17, 2009
2:48 AM
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By playing the C major scale in C on a C Harmonica i get the C Major Scale,
But if i instead play the EXACT same Holes with the exact same bends but i emphasize the 5 Draw as my root, then it transforms into the 12th post F LYDIAN scale?
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http://www.youtube.com/arbite83
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mickil
253 posts
Jun 17, 2009
3:59 AM
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Yes, 12th position starts on 5 draw. But, positions and modes aren't the same thing.
Take the C major scale, or all the white notes from C to C on a keyboard; it just happens to be the Ionian mode.
Now imagine playing all the white notes from D to D; that is the Dorian mode. It's not the same as a D major scale.
The main difference between scales and modes is that scales have the same arrangement of tones and semitones - and, therefore, sound the same - whatever key you're in. Modes, however, each have a different arrengement and all sound unique.
Have a look here for more about modes:
http://www.phillipsguild.org/modechart.html
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
http://www.youtube.com/user/SlimHarpMick
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GamblersHand
36 posts
Jun 17, 2009
5:09 AM
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Yes, that's a Lydian Mode
I'm messing around with 12th at the moment, but a tend to use the single bent 3 draw i.e. Bb on a C harp. This is the natural fourth, and sounds better for most of the rock/folk/country major tunes I'm playing along too. I don't think that the Lydian Mode is actually used much.
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but I've never found the mode descriptions that useful when discussing positions. While I don't OB (at least musically), with the right bend intonation I can usually get more than one modes per position - or have I got my music theory all wrong?
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jaymcc28
66 posts
Jun 17, 2009
7:04 AM
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OK, I'm still at the beginner/advanced beginner stages. My music theory is very low. So, do I need to be more concerned with modes or positions? I think I need to focus on positions but there have been a lot of discussions about modes lately. My head is spinning enough so I tend to ignore all the 'mode' discussions. Should I?
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GamblersHand
37 posts
Jun 17, 2009
8:05 AM
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I'd think so
As I understand it, the Mode names, when based on positions, are the descriptions of the relative (to the key) mode when you would play
1b 1d 2d" 3d" 3d 4b 4d 5b 5d 6b 6d 7d 7b 8d 8b 9d etc
But as you play other notes, I find the mode descriptions a little redundant...or I'm missing something
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mr_so&so
132 posts
Jun 17, 2009
9:48 AM
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I'll try to clarify positions, modes, etc.
A position is just defined by the root note, period.
E.g. first position root notes are 1+, 4+ 7+, 10+
second position roots are 2-/3+, 6+, 9+
third position roots are 1-, 4-, 8-
etc.
If you can bend and overbend, you can play any scale you want in any position. This is the "modern", chromatic, playing often discussed here on the board. A skilled player can play anything on a diatonic harmonica.
Modes of a scale, e.g. the major scale, are the simplest way to change positions. E.g., if you just play the same notes as the major scale on a C harp, but start and end on D instead of C, you are playing the Dorian mode of the major scale. This is one way of playing third position. Dorian mode creates a minor scale with flattened 3rd and 7th degrees. But you could also play a "blues" scale in third position very easily, or any other scale you want if you can do all the bends and overbends.
I mentioned in another topic that sometimes harp positions get named after a mode of the major scale. E.g. third position is often called Dorian mode. But such a name is not really appropriate in this modern era of the harp.
The "circle of fifths" gives the relationship between the key of the harp and the key of any chosen position on that harp. It also determines why the positions are numbered the way they are.
Last Edited by on Jun 17, 2009 9:57 AM
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bluzlvr
212 posts
Jun 17, 2009
1:38 PM
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I found the easiest way to learn my modes was on the guitar.
I like to look at the modes as "outlines" for various licks.
If I'm playing say, a jump blues in second position, I might use the mixolydian mode as an outline for my licks along with the minor pentatonic. No overblows required.
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Arbite
59 posts
Jun 19, 2009
2:38 AM
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The FGABCDE - Lydian scale, contains a B wich is Draw 7
But how come i read in an earlier Topic that you should stay away from Draw 7 Playing in 12th position? Or did i get that wrong
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http://www.youtube.com/arbite83
Last Edited by on Jun 19, 2009 3:38 AM
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GamblersHand
38 posts
Jun 19, 2009
3:07 AM
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If you happen to be playing a song which uses the Lydian scale - which wouldn't be very often, in my experience - then by all means play 7d (and 3d natural)
But if you're looking for an approach to playing a major key song, then 12th position with the 3d bent - and generally avoiding the 7d, could be the way to go. Personally I find playing 12th easier or naturally more melodic than 1st
So if you're playing in C on a G harp
C D E F G A B
2d" 2d 3d" 3d' 4b 4d 5b
5d 6b 6d 6ob 7b 8d 8b
And you can add a little bluesiness fairly easy with the 3d''' and 6d' etc
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