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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Food for thought MBH members.
Food for thought MBH members.
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sopwithcamels266
119 posts
Jun 21, 2009
5:47 AM
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Everyone has a right to an opinion.I notice one particular members recent openning thread post is full of contradiction which is funny to me.
Experience:
Well it seems obvious to me that, if you have had the experience of playing thousands of gigs over many years.Everything from back street dives twice a week with hookers playing pool to more diverse TV and radio, jazz festivals and holding weekly residences together year in and year out and survived, well!
That survival is mainly due to the fact that if some folk don't like what your doing and they certainly let you know,
you take it for what it is.
If you handle it the way I've seen folk handle critisism on here, then as sure as eggs are eggs even if they become a wonderful technical player, they won't ever have an audience.(guaranteed once there youths gone)
No one will care less.
As a muso you play and work for all kinds of club owners and promoters.
Handle them the wrong way and you can find yourself in a lot of trouble and often it won't be musical I'm refering to.
Folk buy from who they like.I'm not really talking music here. Iv'e come across hundreds and hundreds of musos far better than I could ever be sat at home and the phone dosen't ring.
No one gives a shit if they were a GOD, while the rest of us are out strutting our stuff.
Now, I'm speaking from experience.Everyone has a RIGHT to an opinion
Last Edited by on Jun 21, 2009 5:52 AM
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mickil
261 posts
Jun 21, 2009
7:06 AM
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Here we go again. This must be about WW5 since I've been around on this forum.
I don't know why people bother getting upset enough to do all that typing; it's not like you're gonna change anything.
If some peeps have got a problem, just ignore them. That's what I do with a tiny minority on here. I don't even read their posts.
It's a bit like when you go to a bar and try to be civil for the nth time to someone who's always shitty to you. No point.
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
http://www.youtube.com/user/SlimHarpMick
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eharp
267 posts
Jun 21, 2009
7:39 AM
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i am glad i had a big father's day breakfast this morning.
now all i got to do is mow the lawn, screw some plates onto a new comb, play some harp, and not worry about other folks' opinions.
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Buddha
673 posts
Jun 21, 2009
8:07 AM
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did somebody say something?
hmmm...need more espresso.
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sopwithcamels266
120 posts
Jun 21, 2009
8:41 AM
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Excellent, all opinions are vallid.
There was design to my post, ha ha make of it what you will.
Intellect and understanding are atributes of a fine muso
mickil:Understand the meaning of the post.Where it is coming from and why. etc etc
It is not rocket science it is an observation centered on folk with limited experience.
It is funny actually how people see it
Some folk can't see the wood for the trees Ha ha.
Last Edited by on Jun 21, 2009 8:43 AM
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ZackPomerleau
234 posts
Jun 21, 2009
9:23 AM
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Well, I have one thing to say, and it is why is experience an issue? Why?
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Buddha
675 posts
Jun 21, 2009
9:26 AM
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Zack, experience is very important and not everything can be done well just because you know how something works. You'll understand the first time you're with a girl and/or a boy
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ZackPomerleau
236 posts
Jun 21, 2009
9:44 AM
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Well, no boy. I've had a girlfriend before, and then some weirdos going after me. What I mean though Buddha is this whole life experience makes you play better so many go at. That isn't true. Unless my life experiences have let me become a somewhat decent player.
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kudzurunner
518 posts
Jun 21, 2009
9:45 AM
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As Mr. Satan was fond of saying, "Knowledge is knowing what to do. Wisdom is knowing when to do it or not." Something like that.
Seriously: if we're talking about harmonica playing, and blues harmonica playing specifically, then "experience" can mean a range of things. It can mean that a player has played with a range of other players, other instruments, and in various sizes of combos; has played a range of gigs for a range of audiences; has played very small stages and very big stages (from a small crowded juke to a streetside crowd to Friday night at a big blues festival before 15,000 people); has suffered a range of technical and spiritual challenges, even catastrophes (the amp quits just as you hit the first note; the girlfriend moves out just before you go on tour), and somehow gotten through them; has gone head to head with more experienced players and held his own.
For me, as a player, experience is the reservoir I draw on when I encounter any new playing situation, as I did yesterday during the Bentonia Blues Festival in Bentonia, Mississippi, when I got to sit in with a nameless older bluesman at Jimmy "Duck" Holmes's Blue Flame Cafe. (I think that's the name. Google it. It definitely began with Blue and ended with Cafe.) It was 97 degrees outside and warner inside. Experience--all those gigs, all those earlier performance situations--helped me know the songs the guy was playing as he pulled them out of his hat (including "Honky Tonk"); helped me quickly sense that he had a good but not perfectly steady sense of time; helped me stay out of his way when he was singing; helped me set my own volume; and gave me the confidence not to feel the slightest bit apologetic or self-conscious about being a "white guy" on stage. I knew what I was doing and I belonged where I was; that freed me to pay quite a bit of attention to what he was doing, and make him sound good, while still projecting my own music with relaxation and intensity.
All of these things take time to accumulate to a player. They're part of the journey, and the journey can't be rushed. Early on, I didn't recognize all of them as important goals, important attributes of skilled musicianship.
There was a young white guy with a guitar, about 20 years old, who came in at one point; the owner of the juke came up to me, leaned down, and said, "Let the white boy sit in on a tune or two." I was happy to. I got another beer and listened to him from the front of the room. He was too loud and, although he had some chops, he didn't know how to keep a groove. He was clearly trying to impress people, but what he didn't realize was that the thing that would have impressed people was an ability to lock down into a rock-solid groove. That's how you rock a juke joint. He hadn't yet discovered that. (As a bluesman-in-training, he had more of a rock aesthetic.) Still, it was clearly important to him to have his juke joint performance experience, and he got it. But he's raw, and anybody with experience could see that.
If you haven't lived it, it can't come out of your horn.
That's what Charlie Parker said. Wise words.
Last Edited by on Jun 21, 2009 10:01 AM
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Cadillacfrank
1 post
Jun 21, 2009
9:55 AM
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Happy father's day! I am new to this forum and excited to talk with y'all. I've played harp as an amateur(and some paid gigs) for (gulp) 40 years and still love it! I currently play in a delta blues amplified acoustic trio with slide guitar and standup base, as well as sitting in once a week in an established blues jam, which is mostly jump blues and dance oriented. I love to sing and write tunes as well. My last bit of fun was fixing up my 25 yr. old Shure 520D mic. I converted it to balanced low impedance, which all but eliminated that nasty feedback, and painted it candy apple red! I also play through an audix fireball mic, which I highly recommend for the money.
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addict
3 posts
Jun 21, 2009
10:21 AM
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I have a question for you Zack. Do you think your playing is going to change over time? If so, why and how will it change?
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sopwithcamels266
122 posts
Jun 21, 2009
10:22 AM
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Kudzurunner: Man you have a way with words I wish I could communicate like that, then again it is a professional interest.
That quote from Mr Satan, well all I can say is brilliant quote, that cat knows where it's at for sure.
Cadillacfrank: Welcome opened account on this thread
nice one.
Oh shit, one of my daughters has just been stung by a bee, all hells breaking loose and the bloody foods on fire in the garden....................,
Last Edited by on Jun 21, 2009 10:29 AM
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wailing
2 posts
Jun 21, 2009
7:34 PM
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Hay man I am new to this stuff wasn't, going to say a thing till I read Kudzu runners thing .I must be selfish I like the music for myself everything else is a close second.I sat down the other day with a little girl who is autistic she would pay no attention to me at all until I tweeted a little on that harmonica she looked me right in the eyes and smiled so big she could have whispered in her on ear.Sometimes we don,t know how good we have it.
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ZackPomerleau
241 posts
Jun 21, 2009
7:50 PM
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Addict, I am going to get better because I am going to have lessons. Me shooting someone or getting my arm cut off will not make me a better player or anything. Miles Davis' Dad was a doctor, and he had a good life. Did that make him better? NO. You're good because you learn.
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jaymcc28
69 posts
Jun 22, 2009
7:10 AM
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This is a pretty interesting thread considering it started on Father's Day. After reading Adam's and Zack's thoughts on this subject A Mark Twain quote came to mind:
"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."
Zack, you're a very good player now at a very young age. You will improve as you get older because of lessons but you will also improve due to life experiences. I look forward to sitting back, watching your progress and being able to say "hey, I knew of that kid when he was in high school..."
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Blocker
9 posts
Jun 22, 2009
7:18 AM
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Sorry but I couldn't resist :}
Two bulls were sitting on a hill, overlooking a herd of heifers below.
The young bull says, "Hey, why don't we run down there and screw a few of those heifers?"
The old, wise bull shakes his head and says, "Nah, why don't we walk down there and screw all of them?"
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sopwithcamels266
127 posts
Jun 22, 2009
8:53 AM
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Blocker: thats funny I will use that one on the band stand for sure.
jaymcc:That quote man the "mark twain"
I will have to pinch that too excellent sums up the whole thread and others, BRILLIANT.
Zack:Hang in there man were all having a bit of fun.
Let me tell you when you mentioned the Miles thing and his Dad,well be careful.
I know and met the guy and let me inform you there was a whole lot more complexity to that situation.Think before you make any comment like that.You could write a book on that thing and why.
You will understand perhaps in about twenty years, may be,so stay cool ha ha.
You keep walking into the "Mark Twain" trap,it is quite funny really.
Listen I was a good marksman at one time, better than some of my instructors,but still a teenager I had learnt the game and HOW TO PLAY IT. You grow fast in the game I started out in. (Experience,socialisation=survival)
But hey keep going man it's all good fun
Last Edited by on Jun 22, 2009 8:56 AM
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kudzurunner
521 posts
Jun 22, 2009
9:39 AM
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Zack:
I've offered a considered reply to your good question, and I do hope you hear it. (You'll notice that I've said nothing about cutting or shooting.)
I agree with you on one essential point: it takes a hell of a lot of learning to become a good musician, blues or otherwise. Some of that learning can take place on Skype and in other virtual worlds. Most of it doesn't.
Last Edited by on Jun 22, 2009 9:43 AM
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ZackPomerleau
245 posts
Jun 22, 2009
10:51 AM
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Adam, I understand what you are saying. Maybe some of my skill comes from my life experience? I may be sixteen but I know I've been through stuff that isn't exactly what I would call easy for an adult to do. Jay, thanks so much man :-D And, on Miles, I've read his autobiography (if it's even that) and done a lot of research. He changed with the time. Experience is, I admit, something to do with it, but it's not the vital piece. It only allows for the inspiration in my opinion. I love my father and my mother, too, and I love having them around. Maybe I'm not just your average kid...
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sopwithcamels266
129 posts
Jun 22, 2009
11:13 AM
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Zackpomerleau:
Your quote ="Experience is, I admit, something to do with it, but it's not the vital piece. It only allows for the inspiration in my opinion")
Do me a favour man log what you have just written down put it in a draw and take it out again in 20 years or may be 30 years for you for you and reread it.
That is one of the most arragant and ridiculous things I have ever read on this forum or anywhere for that matter.
It tells me everything I need to know about you.
Sad very sad.
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bluesnut
80 posts
Jun 22, 2009
11:17 AM
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My coffee and oatmeal raisin cookies helped while reading these thoughtful words.
Last Edited by on Jun 22, 2009 11:19 AM
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XHarp
72 posts
Jun 22, 2009
11:30 AM
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Zack,
Do not dismiss experience just because you cannot see the end result or net value yet. Keep your mind open. Your youth is what you have going for you and yes experience does provide inspiration but it provides much more then you can clearly understand right now.
There is nothing more humbling then to get on stage fully inspired, with an arsenal of licks and the desire to play like hell only to be berated by the host for not knowing when to play, how to play or keeping the timing. That only comes with experience, and I will be the first to say, live and actual experience, and has nothing to do with inspiration.
I agree with sopwith about putting that away and resurecting it at a later date but I wouldn't wait 20 or 30 years. I'd pull it out every 10 years and see how you feel about it.
And this is just outstanding wisdom in itself.....
"Knowledge is knowing what to do. Wisdom is knowing when to do it or not."
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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ZackPomerleau
247 posts
Jun 22, 2009
11:42 AM
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Sop, you do not know me so do not go thinking I am some ignorant kid who doesn't have respect or anything. I know what I have been through, and I know I will experience. I have an open mind. I am just saying it does not take getting shot at, almost dying, being robbed, etc, to be a musician. Music is a universal language, and disregards this. You should know that, you're a Jazz player. You have different experiences because you're older, so what? My Jazz and my music is different than yours. So please don't go off thinking I am some stupid kid. I have an open mind; I am ready for life. You know, your comments about ME tell me everything I need to know about you.
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Miles Dewar
369 posts
Jun 22, 2009
12:54 PM
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I believe the quote is a religious one.
Last Edited by on Jun 22, 2009 1:14 PM
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jaymcc28
70 posts
Jun 22, 2009
1:07 PM
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@SOP: "...That is one of the most arragant and ridiculous things I have ever read ..." I think you're wrong. I have a son about the same age as Zack. It's (probably) not arrogance but naivety on Zack's part. I don't know the kid either but I know teen boys. Aside from having one of my very own I've spent the last 20+ years of my life coaching them and I KNOW arrogant kids. Based on my observations you've misread him.
By the way, I also don't know you, SOP, and I don't normally get involved in 'forum battling' but it's my opinion that you're looking for trouble with the kid. Why? Back off and give him space.
Zack, I hope you don't mind my stepping in. You're a big boy and can defend yourself but sometimes, well...
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MrVerylongusername
362 posts
Jun 22, 2009
1:14 PM
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Experience is crucial, but age and experience are not synonymous.
Would Anne Frank's diary be more powerful had it been written by an adult?
No two lives are the same. By the time I'd reached Zack's age, I'd gone through a nervous breakdown, mental illness, attempted suicide and psychotherapy - but hey I was just a kid, so that's not 'real experience' is it?
Stop patronising him. If you're going to criticise someone base it on facts that you know, not assumptions based on age alone.
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addict
4 posts
Jun 22, 2009
1:17 PM
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I doubt that many of the people who read this forum have been shot.... I would say that experience means having to live with all the mistakes you have made, not the things other people did to you.
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ZackPomerleau
250 posts
Jun 22, 2009
1:51 PM
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Jay thank you!!! Mr. Thank you also, that is quite a lot. It seems like age is synonymous to him. I've had some stuff I won't talk about, but I also have O.C.D. which is the one thing I'm not afraid to say. It makes me who I am but it does not mean it's easy. Most people make fun of it, but step into my shoes and you will se.
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oldwailer
791 posts
Jun 22, 2009
6:39 PM
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Adults: Stop messing with Zack! He'll learn his own way and do just fine at it, just like we did. Telling him things about how he will be in 20 years is pointless. Did you listen when your dad told you that crap?
Zack: Stop messing with adults! Some of us don't have forever left to live--our "experience" is all we have to hold you in place--our joints hurt and we need drugs to get it up--let us have our illusions in peace!
HUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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Miles Dewar
370 posts
Jun 22, 2009
7:38 PM
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I think they are talking about the "very tiny pieces" of experience accumulated together over time.
The church down the street from me has a saying on their sign that says:
"Wisdom is knowing how Not to do a lot of things"
..........But really...Who cares if we DON'T have the experience.
We will with time.
Last Edited by on Jun 22, 2009 7:41 PM
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Philosofy
230 posts
Jun 22, 2009
8:07 PM
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I'm hearing two different things here:
To me, Zack is saying you don't need (bad)life experiences to play the blues. You don't need to grow up poor with an alcoholic mother, your wife doesn't have to leave you, etc.
What some members are saying is that you need experience playing in order to become a better musician.
I think both are correct.
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gorignak
48 posts
Jun 22, 2009
8:15 PM
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I've read through this post and have followed this whole fiasco. Now it's my turn:
I'm calling YOU out jaymcc28,
I'm 19 and I got my father a book for his fathers day present, the book is called "fathers are special" or something like that. And inside the book is hundreds of quotes from well know people talking about their fathers, and that Mark Twain quote is in there. I may be wrong, but I have a strong suspicion that you got that quote from that book.
hahahahaha! I really don't care, I just thought I'd call you on it. All in good fun jaymcc28.
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sopwithcamels266
130 posts
Jun 23, 2009
12:12 AM
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Jacmcc28:Yea, I understand what your saying I have kids myself,and to a certain extent your right.
However where I come from telling me to back off is a threat.You will note I have the maturity and experience to realise you have a point of view as I have.
It's for the site owner to judge.
What goes around comes around.
We all know what will happen right.
Iv'e made the point and thats cool.
gorigak:You have just parachuted in with something that has no meaning or bearing on anything!!!!!
Philosophy:Interesting observation.
milesDewar: Interesting point
mrverylongusername:It's experience I'm addressing not age.
Experience has foundation simply by definition.This guy,(ZP),theories have none.
If you stand at the bar with the big boys and act in this manner they shouldn't be suprised when they are picking themselves up off the floor with a broken jaw.When they look around for someone to help file assault charges, there is no one available.
Thanks Kudzurunner for letting the thread flow, no worries.
Experience is an invaluable commodity.
Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2009 3:18 AM
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Baker
24 posts
Jun 23, 2009
3:35 AM
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I have been following this tread with interest. It's got me thinking about music (and creativity in general) and what it is, where it comes from. I think Adams comments about having experience as a musician making you a better musician are spot on, but I have been thinking about the role life experience plays in the making of a musician.
Please bear in mind that this is only the way I see it. Everyone sees things differently, has different reasons for making and playing music and different process' for how they arrive where they do.
For me music, like all art, is about communication. It's about expressing something about the human condition or the world we all live in. I think that blues music especially is about human and personal experience, and I think that is the reason why it resonates with many different people from many different backgrounds and cultures. It is more often than not written from the point of view of the author and talks about a certain event or experience that person has had.
The way you choose to play a certain piece of music is an expression of who you are and how you see the world. I could learn every one of Little Walter's tunes, note for note but I still wouldn't be able to play like Little Walter, because I'm not him.
Zack, your comment that "it does not take getting shot at, almost dying, being robbed, etc, to be a musician" is true. However that man understands something about life which those of us who have not been shot can never understand. The same as a man with O.C.D. understands something about the human condition that those of us who do not have O.C.D. can never understand. These experiences make us who we are and we will bring these things, deliberately or instinctively into the way we play and choose to express ourselves.
Also your comment from earlier in the tread that "You're good because you learn" is only partly true, yes you have to learn, but music is not like maths 1+1 doesn't always equal 2. I can play a 2hole draw, but that doesn't mean it's going to sound like Howlin' Wolf's 2draw or Adams or yours. Technically amazing players can be boring, basic players can find something which resonates with everyone in the room. This is unquantifiable and is about expressing something personal to you.
MrVLN I agree with your comment that "Experience is crucial, but age and experience are not synonymous." There will always be the Robert Johnson's but I think most of have to work at it.
Ok that's my .02. Like I said this is only my opinion on the matter.
Thanks, Baker.
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sopwithcamels266
132 posts
Jun 23, 2009
3:44 AM
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Baker:
Excellent post well said I could not put it better.We can all learn from your post and gain experience ha ha.
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MrVerylongusername
365 posts
Jun 23, 2009
6:02 AM
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One of the toughest jobs I ever had was teaching alongside classroom assistants twice my age.
I'd trained as a teacher; I was armed with theory and psychology and the knowledge of the world's best educators. My assistants were unqualified, but all were parents. They thought they knew how to educate from their parenting and life experience. They didn't like 'taking it from a young kid'.
All their percieved experience was misplaced. Parenting one stroppy youngster didn't mean they could control a class full of them. Their arrogant refusal to accept my knowledge over their experience just made them look stupid. I won. End of.
Baker, your reference to Robert Johnson raises a good point. Johnson didn't sell his soul. He worked hard; dropping off the radar completely and woodshedding. Then came back and people were blown away at how much he'd learned in a short space of time. The young pretender.
It's all just pack dynamics on MBH these days. The only inevitability about being Alpha is that one day you'll be replaced by a younger, fitter, stronger dog.
My opinion that I have a right to?
I think there are people here who are a little afraid of - perhaps even embarrassed about - how quickly the young bucks are progressing when compared to their own ability. They are hiding themselves behind this myth of 'life experience' and pompous posturing.
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sopwithcamels266
133 posts
Jun 23, 2009
6:43 AM
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Mrverylongusername:A piano player has just left my studio and we both had a really good laugh reading that last paragraph.That is funny, made my day.
A sterio typical response and the other part of your post in my view meaningless.
Music is not about qualifications and whos best and who can blow who away.
As for your second paragraph, it is total contradiction.
I'm off to do some work ha ha.
.
Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2009 6:46 AM
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scstrickland
93 posts
Jun 23, 2009
6:55 AM
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MrV. Your teacher analogy is very good. But consider this. Knowledge and training separates the teacher from the parent. As an educator, I know that it is experience that separates the veteran teacher from the novice. This argument can be transfered to any hobby or profession. The ones who have "Been There and Done That" tend to have deeper understanding of their trade that book knowledge just cant give you.
Furthermore, I don't think the "experience" being discussed here involve shooting people or cutting limbs off. I think what the more seasoned members are saying, is that Experience = playing a lot of harmonica in many different venues under many different conditions, with many other musicians, etc.....
Zack might consider this: How does he know his new Buddha harp is so good? It is the experience of playing other harps that gives him a point of reference. Somebody could have told him it was better and he believed it, and it would only be a belief. In this case he truly, deeply, knows it is better because he has lived it first hand. That face he made when he looked at his harp....That is experience.
Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2009 6:57 AM
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jaymcc28
71 posts
Jun 23, 2009
7:01 AM
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@SOP - No threat intended. I'm not cowardly enough to make a threat from behind a keyboard. Consider it a friendly suggestion. No harm, no foul.
@gorignak - typical teenager :) Reread my message, I DID cite Mr. Twain for that quote. I'm not bright enough to think that stuff up on my own.
Good day all.
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kudzurunner
524 posts
Jun 23, 2009
7:39 AM
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Sopwith:
I'd prefer that you stop throwing around words like "arrogant" and "ridiculous." They're borderline flaming and they're not needed, no matter how much you feel them.
Verylong username: Excellent point warning us not to assume that age and experience are the same thing. Jason Ricci is several decades younger than some participants of this forum and has much more of the kind of experience that I'm talking about: 300-gigs-a-year experience, surviving-adversity experience.
And please note: those two kinds of experience I've just invoked aren't identical, either. Many people have lived lives of unending drama, one catastrophe followed by another, endless rounds of addiction, but they haven't, at the same time, engaged in an intense and focused musical practice that helped them discipline their madness and give it aesthetic form. Jason has done both, in his own fashion.
When I speak about experience and its relevance to a musician, I'm speaking much more about the elements disciplined musicianship that I outline in my long post above.
I can't speak for others here--and now I'm referring to Verylongusername's comment about elder-anxiety towards the young-uns--but I don't have any jealousy towards young players (Brandon, Jay G., Zack, RJ Harman) who are learning quickly. This is precisely because I know the journey can't be rushed. Skip one or more of the steps--such as spending a few years in a band, and playing pickup gigs with several dozen different musicians, and making a couple of CDs, and dealing with showbiz ups and downs--and it's evident, at least to some of us. It shows up in the music.
RJ has his own band; he's starting out on that long and challenging road. He's also a little older than the other three. But there's plenty of time all around. It's probably worth remembering that when Jason was RJ's age, I could kick his ass badly on harp. Now he can kick my ass much worse. All I've got is--well, everything I had before. My own sound. My own approach. The pleasure I take in making music and continuing to grow. I've actually started to grow again, thanks to the stuff Jason is putting out there. His fast playing challenged me to see that I had skipped a step in my own professional development: learning how to play fast 16th note riffs. I'm not afraid of "the young." Jason is "the young." He's taught me a lot, and I'm not afraid to say so.
If there are older players here who are jealous of fast-moving younger players: well, pick up your harp, crawl into your woodshed, download their videos, and figure out what the hell they're doing, if it moves you to jealousy. Learn something new.
The journey can't be rushed. It has to be lived, and it takes time. This doesn't mean that a few Claptons or Little Walters won't come along--guys who blow up huge in their late teens or early twenties. Some of them, like Clapton, develop addictions and go underground for a while. Some of them, like Hendrix and Joplin, die young. Some players, like Jason--or me, for that matter--don't come into their own until they're a little older. Sugar Blue had his own struggles, but he's come through them.
And a few harmonica players, like my pal Rob Paparozzi, get good young and somehow find a way of making good money at it, supporting a family, doing jingles, playing out with really good bands, going off on the road and hitting it big with The Blues Brothers and Blood, Sweat & Tears............some guys are real pros AND generous, happy people who seem never to have struggled with all the dark nasty stuff, the heartbreaks and addictions. But you never know. You never really know. And that's OK, too.
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Kingley
80 posts
Jun 23, 2009
7:48 AM
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Wise words Adam!
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MrVerylongusername
366 posts
Jun 23, 2009
8:17 AM
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Sopwith
I'm glad I have amused you. You take delight in telling people how meaningless/contradictory their posts are. Please... humour me; explain the contradiction. And please, no oblique "I'll let you work that out for yourself" dodging.
Noone has criticised Zack's ability to learn or to play, but he gets attacked for his lack of experience when he (and others, like Zhin recently) offers the benefit of his knowledge to others. It's a cheapshot; It has nothing to do with it. How does playing a million smokey dives (with or without hookers) help you construct a scale or understand impedance matching?
You attacked Zack for his 'arrogance'; I don't call it arrogance I call it self-belief and nobody makes it without that.
Without foundation knowledge, then experience accumulates far more slowly. So returning to my teaching example; my textbook knowledge forwarned me and my limited teaching practice was enough to succeed where my assistants, with several years of 'experience' in the classroom failed. That is not to say that, as SStrickland pointed out, with more experience I did not go on to control a class even more effectively (BTW I loved teaching - my departure from that profession had nothing to do with classroom management)
My second post was not to contradict my first. In my first post I stated that experience is crucial but that age and experience do not equate. I stand by that.
My second post was trying to understand the psychology of why [edit - strike 'all' change to some of you] older guys constantly feel the need to tell Zack about how inexperienced he is, without any knowledge of who he is, what he's been through etc...
Addendum:
I wrote this response whilst Adam was writing his. I don't want a flame war. This will be my final comment in this thread.
Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2009 8:25 AM
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sopwithcamels266
134 posts
Jun 23, 2009
8:56 AM
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.
jaymc28:Point taken and thanks for that, no worries.
Mrverylongusername: I can't really respond to this
in the way I'd like to debate it.It's no dodge I have to be careful.
All I wish to say is on this forum I am not interested to someones age,or what they have been through etc etc etc.
I read a post and react to it on it's merit.
It wasn't my intention to take peoples personal circumstances or age into concideration I was merely reacting to the words and their meaning as I understood them.
Last Edited by on Jun 24, 2009 10:32 AM
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ZackPomerleau
254 posts
Jun 23, 2009
9:38 AM
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Well guys, I think sop needs to make it clearer what he is saying. Playing harmonicas is not the type of experience put by. But otherwise, I haven't played thousands of gigs. I've played hundreds, though. It weird places, cool places, packed places, not-so-packed places. I love it every time, though. I love the fact I get to play out. I guess that's the experience you are talking about.
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bluzlvr
215 posts
Jun 23, 2009
1:11 PM
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Aww, kids these days.
Why, when I was your age, I had to hike two miles in the snow barefoot to my woodshed so I could practice my harmonica...
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XHarp
74 posts
Jun 23, 2009
1:35 PM
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Geez bluzlvr, I didn't now it snowed in Burbank.
You really did have it tough.
kudzurunner, a little conceit in you too I see... Hmmm be carefull it could be the start of new thread either that or your in bluzlvr's woodshed and its freezing.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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ZackPomerleau
259 posts
Jun 23, 2009
1:44 PM
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Mr. Very: Thanks so much man, that is EXACTLY what I am trying to say.
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Max-T
18 posts
Jun 23, 2009
4:27 PM
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I wonder if one more comment may be permitted in this thread? It actually has relatively little to do with the expereince discused here as I belive we have already debated the topic in a previous thread. It actually turned out ver short and at the end for thoes of you who just want to get to the point of the matter.
Which was discussing really young (12-14) harp players and weather they could be feasable players, not just in terms of technical knoweledge but real world knowledge, 'street smarts' or 'street harp' type knowledge.
(not saying that you need to literally play on the street its just that I tend to think of it as "book smarts" and "street smarts" if you catch my drift)
I am also of the corner that "expereince" is essential, and as adam says, its a long road to becoming a blues musician, A long daunting, possibly dark and frightful road. But its a road I am very willing to walk, and walk not run, making sure I do not miss the passer by who will impart knowledge or help me learn a lesson. And I do not know zacks circumstances but I wish him the best of luck on his journey.
I cannot say I know anything at all about O.C.D (I understand the condition is something to do with some kind of compulsion?)
However I do have dyslexia, and I can get frustrated with reading (my reading speed is below the national average)and writing is a struggle for me,(computers are a godsend, thank god I wasn't born earlier, I doubt I'd be able to get into a college/uni if it wern't for word processors)
spelling too, the only reason I can spell even the words I am typing now is due to a private english/grammar/spelling tutor I had for several years from ages eight to twelve
(no doubt I will have made numerous mistakes by now I have given up checking all together, it frustrates me and I imagine that most people can understand me)
It seems whenever I tell anyone about my condition I get one of two responses,
1. they laugh and call me mentaly retarded(my friends do this just to anoy me or for a joke however I have met several people who I am quite shure actually meant it). I then procede to teach them a lesson in computer programming or enter in a philosophical debate with them to see if I can persuade them to think otherwise.
2. They say that they belive dyslexia is a joke and not a real condition, This infuritates me more then the first. I am not lazy, I do try to spell, its just not natural too me, If I am learning a new word often I'll say it in conversation with somone and they will look at me oddly because I'm pronouncing it completely wrong as I cannot connect the symbols on the page to a sound.
I supose what I am trying to get at is that, I can understand the feeling of not being "understood", as i think baker was saying. I must say it is one of the most frustratingly infuriating things in the world. this is the place I draw from for my 'feeling', and I am willing to practice until my lips bleed(funny note here, when I got my first harp this did actually happen but only because it had a weird sharp edge which wasnt filed down very well after playing on it for over 5 hours I found i could taste blood and I was really shoked), and if they start to bleed, well I guesse wood and metle pressed against a wound would act just as well as any gauze..
Anyway Moving on I think I have been rabbiting on without much direction:
My main thought:
"Excellent, all opinions are vallid." was said in a previous post. by sop I think?
I just thought I would point out that this argument has a logical flaw.
From this it follows that I can construct the argument that:
Not all opinions are (equally) valid.
By the previous statement this would be permitted as it-in itself is an opinon,
I hope you get what I am touching on:
A permits/verifies B
BUT B forbids/destroys A
However I supose it could be overcome by making a distinction between Opinion and Argument, but here is where the lines get fuzzy.
I hope thoes of you who are interested have managed to decipher something from among all this, here I have laid my thoughts bare, and I have strayed from what I originally planned to say but If you get bored then stop reading... Its not me forcing you to read this
Oh and one last note, If I have applogised for my spelling in this post (I seem to do that alot out of force of habit) I take it back, I'm fed up with it, as long as you understand what I am saying I think spelling is secondary...
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"imagination is more important then knowledge" - Albert Einstien
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scstrickland
95 posts
Jun 23, 2009
6:43 PM
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Good job Max. Spelling was never my bag either. Thanks for contributing and I understand you completely. We all shine in different light. Meaning we all have our strengths and weaknesses. I hope you have found your strength (computer programing?) And focus on it.
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mr sog
27 posts
Jun 23, 2009
7:32 PM
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I got stabbed at a pub and was in hospital for a couple of weeks once. Had my own bowel in my hands. Didn't help my harp playing one bit.
Maybe loss of limbs is the way to go but I'm thinking it may hinder my guitar progress. What to do, what to do.
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