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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Looking for some guidance on key selection
Looking for some guidance on key selection
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Bluzeman
1 post
Jun 21, 2009
1:01 PM
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Hello all,
I'm a brand new harp player. Bought my first Hohner MS Blues Harp 2 days ago, and I've watched about 15 of A Gussow's amazing lesson video's on youtube so far... Man, to play like that one day...
I've been playing guitar off and on for about 16 years now, with a healthy break from it over the last 10, but now that I have the things out of my life that were distracting me from my music, I've found myself rejuvinated and inspired once again to dig deep and let it out.
I bought an E Harp, not really understanding yet about crossharp or the register that the harp plays at relative to the key. I will be, like most raw beginners, playing mostly solo for quite a while, and already am kind of kicking myself for not buying a lower register harp, as I think it sounds so much better solo, from the vids I've seen.
Here is my question:
Being brand new at the harp, literally a "raw beginner" as Mr Gussow puts it (with credit to another he mentions),
What key would some of you recommend based on playability - as I am understanding now that the register of the harp makes a difference HOW you play, and versatility? I would like to be able to play along with as many cuts as possible while I work on my chops and try to get the right sound.
One thing I have noticed is that while I am already trying to get that 3Db I don't really have any outside reference how it should sound if I get it right while doing it on my E Harp. I haven't found any lessons yet featuring a E Harp, for me to match pitch with. Any help there would be awesome too!
Since I can't afford to buy 3 or 4 more harps, I really want to make the wisest choice possible when I by a harp in a new key!
Thanks all in advance, and I really look forward to gettin to know my way around!
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Bluzeman
2 posts
Jun 21, 2009
1:07 PM
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Oh, I did want to mention I saw a set of harps,
This set,
Hohner Piedmont Blues
VERY inexpensive, but I'm a little leary of the quality.. I mean.. really? 7 harps for $20?! That's HALF what I paid for my MS Blues Harp...
Does anyone have any input on whether these are worth spending the money on to have the variety of keys, and would they be suitable to learn on, giving if the tone and quality could potentially not be up to par I don't want to develop bad habits, and not know it til I pick up a quality instrument.
Last Edited by on Jun 21, 2009 1:09 PM
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snakes
262 posts
Jun 21, 2009
1:31 PM
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I would not suggest the Piedmonts. I haven't tried them, but you get what you pay for and Hohner has quality control problems enough with their professional harps. The Piedmonts are definitely not professional quality harps. As for the key to buy I'd suggest either an A or a C. The A is my favorite key as it is key of E for the guitar when you play 2nd position (a very popular key). The most common tutorials you will find will be in the key of C, though. My 2 cents. Welcome to the forum.
Last Edited by on Jun 21, 2009 1:33 PM
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eharp
272 posts
Jun 21, 2009
1:32 PM
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i would buy a quality harp; around the $30 dollar range. a C is good because it is mid-range and many instructional materials use that key.
many of us prefer the low harps, also. Bb being very popular and A being widely used in blues.
those piedmonts are inferior from what i have read but may be nice so you have all the keys and the case is worth the price.
enjoy the journey and the forum.
(i think Eharp rules for obvious reasons.)
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Bluzeman
3 posts
Jun 21, 2009
1:41 PM
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When I bought my harp it was a toss up between the A and the E. I wish I could have just gotten both, but $40 is a chunk of change to me for ONE.. lol. I wish now I HAD gotten the A instead, Cause I DO play ALOT in E and it would be kewl to be able to jam with myself in a key I'm familiar with.
Thanks for the advice on the Piedmonts. I was pretty much already thinking it wouldn't be worth the money. I'd rather learn on something with some quality behind it, and in general, you really do get what you pay for.
I am TOTALLY loving my new harp though regardless! Much to the consternation of my girlfriend...
I've been reading around the forums and there seems to be alot of folks that have issues with Hohners quality control standards, and i really haven't seen any mention of the Blues Harp line at all. It all seems to be about the Marine Band, which as far as I can tell is a staple of blues harp playing.
That said, the only real reason I chose the Hohner was availability and brand recognition. i just HAD to have a harp RIGHT NOW!
Oh..I guess I ought to mention I DID buy a cheapo chinese made Hohner, the "American Ace" model for like $9 and immediately was disappointed... It's in C of course. I notcied RIGHT away I could bend the Blues Harp, maybe not perfectly, but I could DEFINATELY bend it, but not hardly at all on the cheap one.
Last Edited by on Jun 21, 2009 1:45 PM
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GamblersHand
40 posts
Jun 21, 2009
2:06 PM
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To answer your earlier 3 draw half-step bend question - I'd use your guitar to play a "D", then aim for the same with the harp. Or use your tuner if you've got one.
I found that higher pitched harps can be a little trickier to maintain a constant bend when you're starting out, but on the up side require less effort.
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tookatooka
245 posts
Jun 21, 2009
2:07 PM
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I'd be inclined to opt for a C as a starter, and as you'll be using it a lot I'd steer clear of wood combs at the beginning because you'll probably be playing a lot and it could make your lips sore. I use Suzuki Bluesmasters most of the time. They are reasonably priced, kind to the lips and very responsive. Enjoy the journey.
----------
When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
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Jim Rumbaugh
51 posts
Jun 21, 2009
2:43 PM
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Bluesman, welcome to the world of harps
As a guitar/bass player, I also thought the E would be very popular, but it is not. My E harp is now my "carry in the pocket, knock around" harp.
My opinion. If you like guitar tunes in E, get an A next. Otherwise, I always recomend C, which is the classic starter harp. It's good for guitar tunes in G. At our club, 70% or more of our tunes use a C harp. You can hear these tunes at theharmonicaclub.com.
Third is a G, IF YOU DO A minor tunes. A minor is about 10% of our tunes. Otherwise G is for D tunes
Get a F for C tunes, D for A tunes. (or E minor) With those 5 harps, you can do about anything you want. For some reason, a lot of harp players like Bflat, but I rarely played the key of F on guitar. The six keys I carey on a Hohner belt are, A,Bb,C,D,G, and G.
The B flat is RARELY used.
My opinion of the Piedmont harps. I have played them. I found them to be a good value, not bad to play. They are better that the $5 Johnson harps I began with. But if you did not like $9 American Ace, you may not like the Piedmont.
My opinion on brand. The Blues harp is not bad, but I say get either a Hohner Special 20, or a Suzuki Bluesmaster, or a Bushman Delta Frost (if you can find one). If you cannot play them, it is not the harp, it's you. Later, you may change to another brand, but these will not slow you down. example, John Popper uses special 20's out of the box, and tosses them to the crowd at the end of a concert.
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jonsparrow
480 posts
Jun 21, 2009
2:57 PM
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id have to agree an say either A or Bb. those are my favorites. almost all of adams earlier videos he uses a Bb. so if you wanna practice along with those get that.
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snakes
263 posts
Jun 21, 2009
6:22 PM
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I have bought many Hohners, Lee Oskars, Seydels, and Suzukis. I AM only an intermediate player... But as long as we are talking about learning and what brand to pick my suggestion would concur with some other postings. Buy a Suzuki Bluesmaster for $22.00 american on ebay. It is the most playable harp for the money. Continue to buy and try other harps. Some (like most Hohners...) are hard to play right out of the box, but have great tone. Learn on the Suzuki because of the ease to bend and the airtightness. When you get better the inferior quality harps (that sound better tonally) will be easier to play. By then if you have bought enough different brands you may have settled on a choice which is right for you. You may end up only being satisfied with a custom harp. We all hope to have that much disposable income and skill to accommodate all keys in customs, unless of course we do it ourselves (which I do not).
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djm3801
150 posts
Jun 21, 2009
7:21 PM
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I have only been playing for a year or so but my comments are based on harp sound and quality out of the box. I like Special 20's to start. Plastic comb easy on the mouth. I play D, C, Bb and A most, F next, E and G next. Someone suggested Delta Frost. I like them as well and they are hard to get. Coast to Coast music is my favorite vendor They carry all major Brands, located in Maryland I think, and service is super fast.
I have also been using a slightly more expensive harp of late, a Seydel Soloist Pro. Got one in A and it was really nice. Wood comb, but I do not think comb material makes a difference.
Good luck.
Dan
Good luck.
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ZackPomerleau
240 posts
Jun 21, 2009
7:23 PM
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E isn't great. I'd get an A and then a C.
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Cadillacfrank
2 posts
Jun 21, 2009
7:57 PM
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No doubt, harp prices are daunting these days, and they didn't really used to be. Used to be, there was only the wood comb marine band for $2.98. I was earning 5.00/hr. Given that math I ought to be earning $60.00/hr now....
Oh, and start with a C, but don't avoid the lower harps like G or A for too long, they help build stamina!
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nacoran
72 posts
Jun 21, 2009
10:15 PM
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I bought a set of Piedmonts because money was tight. Actually, I still play the C a lot, although I've got a new cover on it, and the G, again with a new cover on it. The numbers and keys wear off and for the first couple hours of play they taste horrible. They bend alright but I think overblows are out of the question. If you get them, make sure you get at least one "good" harp too. I actually picked up a second set so I'd have some cheap harps to experiment with fixing. The case isn't too bad either. You can smoosh Blues Harps and Special 20's in there. I can't stress enough though how bad they taste when you first get them. (It does go away though.) I didn't have any bad reeds in the bunch and I've only blown one out. They are easy on the lips. It's all about the Benjamins!
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Bluzeman
4 posts
Jun 21, 2009
11:48 PM
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After messing with the American Ace a bit more I guess it's not too bad, actually. I DEFINATELY like the lower register of it but I can hear a HUGE difference in tone compared to the Blues Harp. At least i DO have a C harp that is playable. It's MUCH more difficult to bend but that is probably just my "raw beginner" status.. lol . The one hole draw sounds really flat on the American Ace though, that's a little annoying, but I think I can fix that after watching Mr Gussow's awesome lesson on harp tuning. Worst case I'll be out $9 and learn something .
I do like the smoother feel of the plastic comb. The blues harp has a sharp edge that I'm not very crazy about that i think I can fix at work tommorrow.
Man thank all of you for all the great input!
And i figured out about the first half of the national anthem last night :D . So far I think I'm doin allright. It's so ADDICTIVE!
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nacoran
77 posts
Jun 22, 2009
10:03 PM
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My secret shame is that I can never remember which parts of the national anthem go in which order. My bombs burst before they should and my ramparts gleam too late. I can play it on the harp, but only if I have the words in front of me. It's too bad too. It's a good song to learn intervals on. When I was first starting out Yankee Doodle gave me fits.
I can also play most of O Canada.
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Preston
431 posts
Jun 23, 2009
5:57 AM
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Hi bluzeman. Welcome to the forumn. Everyone here in the U.S. (and whoever else wants to) should be learning the national anthem. It is less than two weeks till the 4th of July!
To the beginners I would say learn it in first position. I can play it in cross harp, but it takes the 5 overblow on some sustained notes, so you gotta have good OB chops or you sound like shit. I've never tried it in other positions, so there may be some even better options. But first position keeps you lower on the harp.
Find free sheet music for it here:
http://musicedmagic.com/patriotic-sheet-music/the-star-spangled-banner-free-sheet-music.html
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Jim Rumbaugh
54 posts
Jun 23, 2009
10:10 AM
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This is the tab I use for Star Spangled Banner
http://www.harptabs.com/song.php?ID=2267
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