This link details my work model in dealing with old vs. new Hohner reeds. The "new" reeds make a very good harp when you know what you're doing, up to a certain threshold. Many players will never surpass that threshold, and might even prefer these to the top model I offer. Because I can do them efficiently, they are priced very reasonably for the performance they have. Certain specific older reeds make an even finer harp. But I have to take the good with the bad, some older reeds are worse than new ones and I have to eat them. Some new reeds found in new harps are even better than the older ones I like. But they're not consistently so.
They're all just parts to me. Including the 200 dollar Fabulous (makes a great harp). I'm confident the same will apply to the Harrison. Ideally, having something potentially superior to work with will enable me to spend much less time fixing problems. I'd be able to spend minimal time calibrating some proprietary parameters (that are impossible to do on a production line), and have an even better harp in the end. Time will tell.
Just my 2 cents.
Joe Spiers http://www.spiersharmonicas.com 816-449-0205
Last Edited by on Jun 28, 2009 12:52 PM
I don't know about God but I do know about YOU if that's how you want play.
And to your credit, at least you're honest and don't F*** with 16yr old players like one of the other customizers.
Last Edited by on Jun 28, 2009 3:28 PM
I have NEVER thrown you under the bus. I don't know you nor don't dislike and haven't heared enough about you to through you under the bus. Gimmie me an example or STFU about it.
I've got nothing with Brad, never done more than talk to him on the phone, but I got fired up anyway in the interest of class. I have calmed down now, will take you at your word and STFU.
Thanks David, I don't mean to be harsh with you. I love watching your videos and your contributions to the harmonica world. You could always ask Violin cat what I think of you because you can bet I would have said something to him if I had and issue. I don't and never have. Peace.
Buddha whats with the Brad Bashing! He's been good to you, I have seen it. I know everything hasn't been perfect between all of us but we all go back a ways and this stuff is really more for you and me and others on the phone or in private then public forum...No? Thats not true what you said. Everyones work is different. I KNOW your a great enough customizer that you don't have to do put others down to but feel free indeed you know you are, you know the workings of Will and the consequences there of as well. I love, respect and admire you my friend. Your a great and inspiring human being, I don't care if you don't like Brad but that was uncalled for in my book, you rule and I love you.
Everyone else, Thanks for the ALL the postings on this thread. Brad has lost loads of money, a wife and tons of sleep creating this instrument. I have never ever attached my name to junk. I left Hohner as an endorsee before I had more than two customs because I didn't find it fair to say I played their harps after all the work all of us (Spiers/Harrison/Sleigh/Filisko etc) were putting into making their harps great.I didn't feel it was their harp entirely any more. I have done my own work for years every one knows that. I have lost sleep over these harps. We are trying to give something to the world that is better than what we have all been getting and sustainable. Would you rather play a 200.00 guitar for three months and throw it out or have a 4,000.00 Les Paul the rest of your life? We are ALSO like Joe Spiers so wisely said, trying to give something great to the CUSTOMIZERS!!!!!! U TOO CHRIS! If we can make a harp that blows as good or better than most customs than what can you Buddha/Spiers?Filisko etc.. do with it!!! The possibilities are endless! Is there a limit on how great something can be???
To Eharp you said" "walk down the street and talk to harmonica players." anybody else notice that walk was about 3'!! and shouldn't he say that those players are tied to the company and not just man on the street testimonials?"
It dosent say "Talk to harmonica players" it says "Talk To world renounded harmonica players". Also we are AT chess records it's not supposed to be some random street...Additionally when I start speaking IT DOES SAY IN PRINT: " PARTNER OF HARRISON HARMONICAS" AS WELL AS MICHAEL!" So we did STATE that we were "tied to the company" geesh...please, please, before you rip things to shreds that we have sacrificed so much for do a little "Dummy Check" and save yourself this trouble and me the trouble of repeating myself. We have been honest, straight forward and sincere from the start. If you don't want it don't buy it. I think I have asked some decent questions here concerning why the hell we built this thing to begin with that really address most if not all the flack and other questions that have been posed.
I thank all of you for your interest, sincerely, and will try to remain patient here and else where with your concerns, questions, doubts etc. I love this community (Arguments/aggreements/Musings etc..) and it shows in everything I do and you do as well. Lets try be a little more diplomatic if possible if nothing else at least wait till the damn thing comes out before we rip it to shreds! Me and Michael are the only ones who have played the new reeds so far! The Ones at SPAH last year were Hohner reeds. Just wait and see please but all press bad and good is ok with us so do what though will, I Do what though wilt and that is the whole of the Law, Love is the law,love under will. Brads true will was to make this harp. and he has done it with love not for money remember that in your speech if nothing else.
Concerning Zack was that a joke and how would I know that from print? Your input on this foum has been motivated entirely by you and Brads fight and thats fine just don't involve other pretenses. If you don't like Brad just say Brads a dumb ass and I'm not buying anything from that dink. I and Brad can handle that and even understand it. As far as the whole "I'm 16 card you have been playing latley, Your wise beyond your years and don't mind reminding all of us about that too frequently. Your a great player, a great kid, and a home boy to me for life but call a spade a spade, mean what you say and say what you mean and try and not ay it mean works for me most the time on my good days.
Last Edited by on Jun 28, 2009 4:23 PM
I wrote a long response to Jason about Brad but deleted it until he reads it first. I may or may not post it later
Last Edited by on Jun 28, 2009 4:44 PM
I think it's very interesting, especially from a business perspective, to watch this thing unfold. To those who say a production harp will never surpass a customized harp -- I'd caution you about using the word 'never'. And the two are hardly static. Technology will advance, and presumably so will the customizers -- especially if the harps they start with are changing.
It is a bit tiring, some of the rest of the nonsense here. But as Forrest Gump said so eloquently, 'that's all I have to say about that.'
This is probably a question that I should ask Brad, but I want to see if violincat has the answer.
Will this first model of the B-radicle come with combs in more than just black? I'm thinking that it would be more or less easy to make models with different comb colors.
And I will not make any judgements about the quality of a harmonica until I have tried it myself. The first best harmonica I ever played was a stock marine band when I was first starting out. The next was a Seydel 1847, and currently my favorite is the Brad Harrison custom marineband. I have made the mistake of making prejudgement about harmonicas in the past. I found out that my huange playes better than my seydel blues session, although all of the reviews would tell one differently. Even my cheap suzuki harmonicas play better than some of my hohner models (except for overblows. So like Jason said, we should really wait until at least more people actually try the completed producted before we make judgement about it.
P.S. But on the other hand, Chris MAY have a good point about a machine made harmonica never being as good as a handmade one. All of the evidence would say that it's impossible. But, in the great history of mankind, the evidence has sometimes been wrong. ---------- Brandon Bailey
Jason, I do not know. But I may be influenced by my bad experience, but my questions about the B-Radical ARE not inspired by that as they have been my questions since day one. I am interested to know how it will work and it has been all kept secret. I do not mean any harm dude, and the whole sixteen card...Why has that been used? Because people need to understand the fact that I do not appreciate being insulted, and they should have the decency to not do that. I'm not trying to get famous by saying I'm sixteen, I am just sixteen. I have played no cards I feel, and I just want to help people. But when I am told I am a puppet and those other things it bothers me because I work hard to know what I know, and I just wanted to help when someone asked. You're a cool guy Jason and I love talking to you, I respect how you are able to be okay with me no matter what. I am sorry about everything.
Elk River, always wanting to sell his combs! That was a joke right there, by the way. I think Dave is a cool guy, and if it wasn't for his videos I'd be lost.
Zack, I would have figured it was, even without the explanation. I just think the chestnut is so freaking cool, I'm like a kid in a candy shop... only the kid owns the candy shop.
I doubt I'll ever spend $180 x 12 for a complete set, plus I'll want my Paddys for 4th position, ALL of B-Radicals. But, I'll probably get one. I mean really, how many of us play only one harp? Or even only one brand? If swapping out these reeds are THAT easy as JAson says, I would have one of these Harrisons for an abuse harp, the one I play harder and blow out reeds on every year or so. That idea seems feasible to me and would, for the average Joe, be cost savings in the long run.
I'm more excited about this harp of JAsons, I understand its looks are more like a harmonica than a spaceship. My personality is more traditional than space shuttle.
I did play a prototype, and it was just that, a prototype, but I liked it. If the main production plays like that one, I'd say it's worth what they're asking. I wouldn't stock up a set, but I might have a couple.
If I were involved in it, I'd be pushing for a third option, a kit. You could buy a kit of reeds, sorted by slots. You have a guide that says "If you want paddy richter, take reed whatever and put in blow slot 3" Then, a man could swap around and try every tuning on the planet.
That would of course work with the interchangeable reeds on the B-Radical.
Maybe there should be an ElkRiverHarmonica manual coming out on altered tunings.
As for the whole debate on the B-Radical, I gues this will only be settled when they are in folks hands.
Like Dave I'm more excited by the "Jason" harp too. I suspect that although the B-Radical may well turn out to be a great harp, I suspect that the "Jason" will outsell the B-Radical.
I am too really interested.I'am pretty sure many harp players in Europe would like too purchase B-radicals,do you have any plans to have European distributors? I think this is great that an other brand is created,and everybody should be glad that people spend time and money to make better harps.In my opinion it doesn't really matter if this harp isn't the best ,as long as it is excellent and doesn't require hours of tweeks. As Dave mentionned if i can change reeds and get alternative tunings this harp might end up to be a bargain :).
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2009 2:35 AM
Kingley, I'm already trying to figure out how to get nails in one.
Sparrow, Paddy is when you sharp the three blow one step. Brendan Power, as far as I know, came up with it first to get that note you have to bend all the way down on the three... This is what Brendan had in mind.
Me, I came up with it on my own, long after, I'm sure, than Brendan did. I spent a few weeks trying to figure out the simplest, easiest to figure out minor key harp. I came up with the same tuning. In first position, that sharped three blow gives you the fiddle note (B in key of D, for instance), but in fourth position, you now have the "do" of the A minor scale and pick up the I minor chord. It's awesome, to me, it minorifies the whole harp.
Here's what I had in mind to do with it... quite a bit different than what Brendan had in mind. Just goes to show how versatile the instrument is.
I'm really curious about the B-radical. If it holds what it promises, then one of my wishes will be fulfilled: finally a custom harp out of the box.
Only time will tell how good the product is. As soon as it hits the streets, people will start buying and testing it and then you'll read their comments on the product. It makes no sense to criticize it before it's even available.
180$ sure is a lot of cash for a harp. But then again so are 6 harps for 30$ each (or if you go for the expensive ones 2 - 3 for 60$ - 80$). If the 6 harps are all crappy you'd better go for the one good harp imo.
Ok not an expert on custom harps but scanned my way through the thread. I have to say I love it when Kudzurunner makes those comments about been gone a short while and comes back to the anti aircfaft fire in full flow.( my words but you know what I mean)
I kinda of agree with DaDoom on this one but I would add
If this harp B-radical is near to a top customise harp,looks good and can be mass produced then there will surely be a market for it.
The theory being that people will pay that bit extra and be happy to IF and this is key IF they can get them delivered to the door step within a couple of days.(that is the selling advantage)
If they can do that then I think it's good business.
But hey harp isn't my first instrument so what do I know!!
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2009 8:58 AM
"If this harp B-radical is near to a top customise harp,looks good and can be mass produced then there will surely be a market for it."
when i talk about a market for it, im referring to a market that alot of people would be interested in. not just us harp players. the blues scene is very small compared to all other genres of music. an when you compare the amount of people that buy a harmonica to the amount of people that buy a guitar or drums there is no market for harmonicas. its not like some one who never played a harp before or has no interest in it is going to see a new awesome technologically advanced innovative harmonica an want to spend $200 on it. where as some one might be like "i like hardcore metal. im gonna buy an ibanez guitar for $1000." ya there are alot of harp players out there but when you compare them to how many guitar players, drums players etc... are out there we are the minority.
Man oh Man!!! I'm not a pro I'm no where near good, but I love to play. I get on this web site to learn from Pro's to get advice. I don't have any teachers so I subscribe to Adams youtube lessons, Jasons, Elkrivers all that, Then you get someone with something new and all the PRO's act like babies, name calling,trashing,things I doubt any of you would say to each other if you were in person and thats a shame.I under stand everyones passionate for the harmonica, but lets not all start acting like guitar players and be civil and respectful of eachs own craft and products.I still love the forum but it's these posts that make me just want to sign off. Thanks and just breathe it will all be Ok.
I was really looking forward to the B-radical, but I feel hugely let down by the price - especially as a UK player bearing in mind the above observations about UK shipping and import taxes.
I don't play bought custom harps - I play out of the box or do a little tweaking to create overblow friendly ones.
The reason I was really excited about this harp was the effect I hoped it would have on the market. Love 'em or loathe them, you have to accept that the innovations of the Lee Oskar line gave Hohner a proverbial kick up the backside in the late 80s. Had it been priced between $40 - $75 there was a chance that the B-Radical might have worried the major players enough to improve their quality control yet again. At $180 plus shipping, the only other stock harp that comes close is the Fabulous. I can't imagine any of the big harp producers are concerned at all about their market share - least of all Hohner who have the most to do. The only market that might be effected is the customisers, hence all the discussion here and even then in the long term I doubt it'll have much impact on their work because it's not a Marine Band which is what the purists seem to want.
I think Hohner will be more concerned about Seydel - who are offering choice, innovation and quality at affordble prices - rather than Harrison harmonicas
Mr. is saying what I am saying. Of course, though I bet they will be great harps, I don't think otherwise. I know Brad can make a good harp so I assume this will be good. I think the ONLY way to justify the price is if you are a player who uses more than three positions and does more than blues. EVEN then it's hard, because of custom. But look at it this way, you got jazz guys who don't use customs. If this reed changing thing is actually good that's great. I pointed out lots of the negative, but if you want my opinion this isn't a blues players harp.
It'll be interesting to see the price point of the cheaper "Jason" harp from Brad.
I should think that if it bore a resemblance to a Marine Band and has most of the reed features of the B-Radical, is very overblow friendly, at a price point of $40-$80 then I suspect it would fly off the shelves.
Time will tell I guess.
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2009 11:02 AM
I would expect though that the Jazz guys who don't use "customs" do their own work. Any serious player works on their harps to a degree.
Although I understand exactly what you mean,I don't entirely agree that it's only justified if you play more than 3 positions and not just blues.
If that was the case then guys like Rick Estrin, Kim Wilson, Mark Hummel, Rod Piazza, etc wouldn't be using custom harps.
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2009 11:12 AM
Well, I can agree. But Jazz guys I bet use customs most of the time. What I am saying is mainly eat is easier to justify the price when you're not just a bluesman.
ElkRiver- What about a harmonica looking like a space shuttle isn't traditional... they used to have those great novelty harmonicas that looked like zeppelins! (And bananas, and hotdogs, etc.) Just a question for you customizers out their, has anyone ever tried to customize the guts on one of those? It would be awesome to be able to whip out a banana and play. I'd probably play John Coultan's "Code Monkey".
I just plain don't understand this about harp players. These are professional instruments... not toys.
over time I paid 2000 for a peavey wolfgang guitar, 500 for a godin, and a few cheap fenders (200 - 500) and others
thats not include amps ( 5150 combo, 5150 II head , triplex head )
and harp players wonder why they are not taken seriously. maybe some of it is that they themselves have such little respect for thier own instrument they can't fathom paying more then a months worth of coffee money.
no, not everyone needs a 200 dollar harp, just like not everyone needs a $2000 guitar. but some that want to get a little more out of thier insturments will put in the extra effort and the extra dough
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2009 12:21 PM
Zonkeah: Look man I don't see what the problem is here let guys blow off a bit of steam , bit of name calling it blows itself out eventually. As long as it's not sick stuff,
In amongst the smoke there are usually a few jems,Iv'e learn't quite a bit from heated debates on this forum and changed my views on more than one occasion.
If B- radical is a business then let them get on with it. As someone already stated time will tell.If they do well, good for them if not is was their money invested not ours.It's up to the business what price they set.
Hey I only put this post on because this thread broke a 100 not bad lipripper .
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2009 12:32 PM
Lotsa folks talking like the price tag is a huge mistake. Well, that's yet to be seen but the price will be the price, and Brad will have the ability to move it if he sees fit.
Hell, if I was introducing a new harp with a radical design and some cool new features, I wouldn't price it like a Marine Band or even a Firebreath. I'd put a premium price on it too.
Harmonica folks have settled for crappy instruments for too long, in my opinion. They're essentially disposable, and need fixing right out of the box a lot of the time. Suzuki and Seydel seem to see the same type of issue/opportunity based on the models they've introduced the last few years.
Seems to me there's a lot of room for this harp, and there will still be room for customizers too.
From strictly a warm-and-fuzzy standpoint -- I hope Brad makes a bundle, and raises the bar for everybody else.
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2009 1:00 PM
If the quality of my last Seydel 1847 reedplates is any indication, there will indeed be a market for this harp. I have not had the time, but there are three of four reeds that were terribly set up from the factory. Worse than usual for these harps which generally need some tweaking for the serious player.
Beyond general playability and such, the easy-to-replace reeds are an interesting concept, and I think the most interesting issue awaits to be seen- if a replacement reed can be plugged in and have the same playability as the one that came from the factory.
Hey I like to nickname things and your name fits a friend named Andy so there you go. The one harp that I have worked the most on out of 16 or 18 harps is an 1847. The first one I got from my wife as a gift was a real sweet harp in the key of "D" but the "A" has given me fits and you know what they cost. So, What's another 80 bucks?
I gotta say that having more expensive instruments won't earn harp players in general respect.
Having more than one out of ten people who call themselves "harp players" who play in public without being mostly un-listenable might raise other musicians opinion of "harp players"
Really, most people who say "I play a little harp," are over-selling their abilities. It's true. So, learn. Woodshed. Make a deal with 'ol Scratch. But EARN you own respect. Peace. -Bob
YOUR SAVING MONEY! YOU NEVER BUY ANOTHER ONE IN THE SAME KEY!
Replaced reeds work fine when you do it your self now using screws instead of the rivets, reeming out both the reed and the reed plate holes and filing them flat and punching the reed out etc......Is there any reason a screwed down reed wouldn't work as well when replaced with the same screw without any of the above hassle?
BTW Hohner is already approaching bankruptsy on their ow, they don't need anyones help.
I'm much too concerned with learning to play at this point, even if I have to work harder at it. So, no, I don't have a B-radical on order nor plan to in the near future. Sounds like a great instrument though for those who do gigs. I hope the company is successful though cause it would be great to have this possibly better playing harmonica that is cheaper when looking at long term commitment.
---------- ~Ryan Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
