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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Being Heard On Stage
Being Heard On Stage
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mickil
295 posts
Jun 29, 2009
11:16 AM
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I don't think there's an answer to this, but here goes.
Neither of my local jams have monitors. One is usually not too loud, but the other one is just silly. The wooden floor and very high ceiling don't help.
I used to play quite a lot at jams, and it was always hit and miss as to whether or not I'd be able to hear myself.
I'm more of an accoustic player really, but don't have a local accoustic scene, apart from the local quasi-communist club, which I'm not too nuts about.
So, what do you do? Last week I just played exactly as I would without a mic, but in front of one. I could hear myself, so presumed I was cutting through the mix.
Like I said, without monitors, I don't think there's an answer to this one, but I could be wrong.
It's a real confidence sapper when you're getting the hang of things, but can't hear a bloody note you're playing.
Any thoughts?
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
http://www.youtube.com/user/SlimHarpMick
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Greg Heumann
95 posts
Jun 29, 2009
1:38 PM
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There's always an answer. Not hearing yourself on stage is no fun.
Monitors can and should be used so musicians on stage can hear what is sung/played through the vocal mics and mic'd or direct instruments. You have to be VERY careful with mic'd or amp'd harp amp in the monitors - a recipe for feedback. However playing through the vocal mics, you can and should get enough in the monitors to hear yourself. With amps, if you can't hear your amp you need to place it higher, tilt it back, place it closer to your playing position. And sometimes you just need a louder amp. A 5 watt amp can't be heard on stage in a loud jam unless you get it up to near ear level and keep it very close.
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/Greg
http://www.BlowsMeAway.com
http://www.BlueStateBand.net
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mickil
297 posts
Jun 29, 2009
1:55 PM
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I thank you for your response, Greg. But, like I said, neither of my local jams have monitors as part of the setup.
I was asking the question in that context.
Thanks.
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
http://www.youtube.com/user/SlimHarpMick
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MrVerylongusername
370 posts
Jun 29, 2009
2:34 PM
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I think it was mentioned in another thread, but perversely, ear plugs can actually help you hear yourself. So much of the harp's sound is resonated in the mouth and transmitted through your bones, that reducing all the background clutter can actually help you hear. That's why you occasionally spot singers sticking a finger in their ears. You don't want to block the sound out completely, so you don't need the expensive fitted sort, you just need to reduced the boominess and bring the level you're hearing down - those cheap squidgy yellow ones are worth a try. Cheaper than buying a personal monitoring system.
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mickil
300 posts
Jun 29, 2009
2:46 PM
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That's funny MrV. I'd forgotten that I used to cover up one ear when singing on stage.
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
http://www.youtube.com/user/SlimHarpMick
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djm3801
160 posts
Jun 29, 2009
3:57 PM
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Wow. I just posted on like this cause I wear hearing aids and played in public for the first time amplified and YES, I could not hear myself and YES, it is scary as hell.
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mr_so&so
144 posts
Jun 30, 2009
8:54 AM
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I believe it was my comment in the other thread that MrVLUN mentioned. Indeed, earplugs do help you hear yourself.
But I respectfully disagree with MrVLUN about which ones to choose. I recommend good ones -- the musician's ones -- that are molded to your ear. You will hear both yourself and the band much better, and protect your hearing. The foam ones have two problems: they don't fit as well, or are at least hard to get in properly, so don't protect as well, and they don't attenuate the sound evenly across the frequency spectrum, so distort it. If you are at all concerned about appearance, the fitted ones are very discrete, you can even choose colors that are close to your own skin tone. The foam ones make you look like Frankenstein, but you also have your choice of garish colours.
Here's a link to some info about ear plugs. The fitted plugs pictured on the page are the ones with the little tan filter disks. Those are the ones I have. They are pricy. I paid $170 Canadian. But they are worth it. I have two pairs.
Last Edited by on Jun 30, 2009 8:58 AM
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Kingley
146 posts
Jun 30, 2009
9:31 AM
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In your average jam session in a medium sized pub (bar) you shouldn't really need monitors.
I usually find that they are used by so many pub musicians as it makes them feel like they are superstars if they have all the "gear" in front of them.
You know the kind of thing, bass bins, 18 channel mixing desk, 500 watt slave amp, powered monitors, mics on the drums, bass DI, etc.
This has absolutely nothing to do with being a musician! It's all about ego!
Likewise at those kind of jam sessions most (although not all ) guitarists usually play at silly volume levels in an attempt to hide their failings as a musician, and again because it's got more to do with ego than music. It can also have a lot to do with the consumption of alcohol and / or certain substances
Of course their are exceptions to this and some very talented players play very loudly, but they use volume as a tool and utilise dynamics and maintain "the groove" above all else. They are more infinitely more interested in music than the "look at me Ma" brigade. These people are great to listen to, but are unfortunately few and far between. Unless you are in a Pro situation.
How to deal with the volume situation at a jam session though is not an easy one. But there are some things you can do.
1. You can learn to sing,. That way you have more control over the tune and the dynamics of it all.
2. You can make sure that your vocal mic (if playing acoustic style harp ) is never in front of a guitarists amp. I usually put mine directly in (or to one side of) front of the bass drum.
3. You can ask them to turn down (good luck with that one! )
4. You can always try a different jam session to see if it's the same.
5. Or you can (and this will really piss off those guitarists! :) ) take 2 HarpGear HG50's and a HarpKing 6X10 and link them all up, add in a Kinder AFB and also mic the amps into the PA. Then you will be the loudest mother at the jam session for sure!
6. Always only play on a slow tune as they will usually be a little quieter (at least in parts) and you have more chance of being heard.
I don't really recommend option 5 but it would be fun just to see their faces.:)
Last Edited by on Jun 30, 2009 9:33 AM
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nacoran
93 posts
Jun 30, 2009
9:36 AM
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$170 for ear plugs? Ouch. I think I'll stick with drug store earplugs. If you follow the directions, including that weird ear tug thing they tell you to do they work OK. Oh, wait, you said $170 Canadian. Never mind...
I'd talk to the other performers, not just the guys you are playing with but everyone who performs there and have them all start complaining about not having monitors there. If enough people complain maybe the management will do something about it. Short of that, if they have a decent soundboard you might be able to get a line out with your channel and use an earpiece monitor.
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mr_so&so
146 posts
Jun 30, 2009
10:24 AM
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Good one, nacoran. Mark my words... Canada will one day rule the world!
But seriously, compared to the amount of money most serious harp players are willing to spend on harps and gear, investing in some good ear protection is not unreasonable. It will help you enjoy your harp playing more, and with unimpaired hearing. It's the best money you can spend. I will cease the sermon now. Amen.
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mickil
304 posts
Jun 30, 2009
10:37 AM
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Thanks for the suggestions fellas.
I hadn't thought about earplugs, but that does sound like a good idea; both for hearing yourself and for not buggering up your lugholes.
On the health issue, one of my blues muso friends - best damn slide guitarist in South London - developed tinitus because of constant exposure to ear-splitting levels. Now, he's almost completely deaf, but, he's still doing a gig on the 4th (the Oval pub near East Croydon Train Station in South East London, if you're in the vicinity and interested.)
So, earplugs sound good.
Kingley: 3. You can ask them to turn down (good luck with that one! ) I have more chance of winning the lottery - hee hee!
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
http://www.youtube.com/user/SlimHarpMick
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Jim Rumbaugh
57 posts
Jun 30, 2009
12:15 PM
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Mickil :
" Last week I just played exactly as I would without a mic, but in front of one. I could hear myself, so presumed I was cutting through the mix"
I agree, If you can hear yourself, others (probably) can too.
If you want to hear yourself, I like the earplug idea. It is very portable and puts you in control.
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XHarp
84 posts
Jun 30, 2009
12:23 PM
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Nacoran is onto something there, if you want to hear the band or other musician you can get an earpiece monitor or even a pair of headphones and plug into the PA. It may not be practical if the sound board is a long way from the stage but typically in a jam setting its right there beside you or the drummer. This way you have your own personal montiors.
There are even some that are wireless over a distance so you don't even need any chords.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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Sirsucksalot
42 posts
Jun 30, 2009
6:01 PM
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tell the rest of the band to turn their volume down and if they wont do that then they're not good musicians.
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Greg Heumann
96 posts
Jun 30, 2009
9:33 PM
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For me, earplugs suck. Yes, you can hear yourself. But you lose total perspective on your balance in the band. You can't hear your volume relative to them. Now, I know about risk of hearing loss. but I for one just can't play with earplugs.
If the band doesn't have monitors, and you don't have your own amp - you have a problem. The only solution is for the rest of the band to come down, or turn that mic up.
Properly managed in-ear monitors would be good, but are outrageously expensive.
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/Greg
http://www.BlowsMeAway.com
http://www.BlueStateBand.net
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