Well, after this huge B-Radical thread I thought I'd make a little statement. When I started playing around three years ago a Special 20 was priced at around $17. The Marine Band was even less, at around $15. This, of course, was without shipping. I think putting this in mind, the low prices of harmonicas created a mentality in me that would keep me believing that the harmonica should be a low priced instrument. I do think they should be, as long as the quality is right.
So, Jason made a huge post about all that is being done with the B-Radical. Now, I am not saying at all that the B-Radical is the first serious harmonica out there, but I think in the next few decades the harmonica will be like most instruments...You have the cheap-o guitars and the good guitars, then you have the customs. You got the Chinese Fenders, the American Les Pauls, and the customs. Sometimes the customs are cheaper than the Les Pauls (Warmoth, for example) but it does not mean they are always better. How I am seeing it, and this is because I have a clearer mind and I am willing to see all sides, that the Marine Band will always be the standard. Of course, it will be like a starter instrument, the middle range. So like a Mexican Fender. Now, you got the B-Radical, the American Les Paul.
So, I guess what I am saying really, is maybe this new entity is filling a void that should have been filled years ago. Whether or not they are good or not, I don't know. I've never played one, and I do not think anyone's thoughts are valid until the harmonica is released, and is FULLY mass-produced. The prototypes have most likely been modified a little. But, customs are made for the person wanting something closer to their needs. Well, guitar players can do their own work to make the guitars more for them, or they can go out and do the custom route. I do not think business wise the venture into the high end market is the best way to start, but as long as they can keep something going and they have lower end models to support them, it will work out. If I ever manage to get one, I will be honest about it. I want to play Jazz, and I have played great set up harps. I work hard to get good instruments, and as a player I do hope this harmonica meets those demands.
I'm not sure I agree that the harmonica is coming of age. When I started playing a harp was 1/3 what it costs now, the same goes for a pint of beer and a bag of crisps - it's just life. No matter how much we like to compare a harp to a "quality instrument", it isn't. There's more technology in a volume pot on a guitar than in a harp, so you're not paying for that. A Marine Band is just a chunk of cheap, fast growing wood sandwiched between some cheap metal and nailed together; they must cost pennies in terms of raw materials - can you say that for the tonewoods used in guitar making?
I try to imagine telling the guys in my band that I paid over £200 for a harmonica, whether it's a B-radical or a custom (purely hypothetical - to me that's a month's groceries). Would their response be respect and a warm welcome into the 'real instrument club?' Piss themselves laughing more like.
However much WE as harp players want credibility, no matter how many Jason's, Adam's and Chris' there are in the world, it just isn't going to happen. A harmonica is always going to be a toy to the majority. Sure we can reeducate and challenge that view by striving to be the best players we can be, but harmonica is not going to set the world on fire the same way electric guitar did. Find someone who doesn't like or know about blues to name 5 harmonica players. I'm afraid the average person's image of a harp player is Dylan. That is just too iconic an image to change.
I agree with you. But it's not about being the status of a guitar, but more or less the availability of a good harmonica for the people who want it. Will the harmonica EVER be accepted as a REAL instrument? I don't know, and you don't. Know one does. But I know it is more accepted today. That is undeniable and that is a start.
every time a play harp an go into a warble people say "THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE SONG FROM ROSANNE!!!"
you know that show with the fat bitch thats realy anoying. an i realy hate her so i pisses me off even more. so thats the image people around me get from harp. mainly the warble which is in a million songs but some how people think of that stupid show.
I never followed the B-radical thread from the get-go, so pardon me if this has been said already.
I agree with MrV that we're never - well, maybe not never, that's a long time - going to have credibility as musicians.
A lot of harp players come to the instrument via other instruments; ones whereby you actually have to learn something about music, e.g. notation, harmony, what have you. But, a lot of them don't, and their musical knowledge is sub-standard.
It doesn't matter as far as the music they make is concerned, but you can see why so many musicians sneer at us.
Not only that: it's a lot easier to pass off in front of an audience with crap harp than it is with crap piano, guitar, drums, etc.
The audience might not realise, but the band does. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
http://www.youtube.com/user/SlimHarpMick
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2009 2:24 PM
I find that the vast majority of people wouldn't recognize a good harp player from a bad one. My guitarist buddy, whom I've been blowing harp with for 10-12 years, still doesn't know and he's into blues!
Well, then change that then? The issue is people need to learn this stuff. If you want credibility as a musician you need to learn a little about the basis of music itself. Of course, you don't need to. Guys like Chris, Jason, Howard, Michael, those guys are respected not jut because they are good players, but because they have great music knowledge. I've seen Jason once and he was talking theory. Good on him! It seems like harmonica players make themselves not respected by believing what the others say. As long as you believe you are a musician you are. And, I know, when you respect yourself others begin to respect you. Don't say you are not good, but know your limits. That's what I mean by respecting yourself.
While I have enjoyed reading the Tolstoyian nature of the threads on the B-Rad I must say that I have a much less sophisticated take on the whole topic. First off I'd remind everyone that it is only another harmonica player or a sophisticated listener that even knows when a harmonica player is doing something avante garde or difficult from a musicianship stand point. Of course we all recognize that fact and pardon me for insulting anyone's intelligence. I think the notion of whether to buy a B-Rad boils down to some basic (obvious) factors such as; do you have the curiosity to find out what it plays like, do you have the disposable funds available, do you have an ethical problem with the price, do you want to support an american entrepeneur in a new endeavor, do you want to be one of the first people to try the harmonica, and does the product appeal to you as a harp player. Part of my curiosity is to see how this harp matches up to all the other harps I've tried especially the Suzuki Firebreath and when I receive my custom harmonica from Buddha his too. I am okay if the harp is inferior to Buddha's as that would be my expectation, but unless I try it how will I know. I'm not saying everyone should go out and buy a B-Rad, but I am a little perplexed at the emotions exhibited around the topic. I think some of us have spent as much money as we would on a B-Rad on a date or possibly even a bad drinking venture. I think this would be a superior expenditure than either of those from a life experience perspective (considering none of the above are so lofty experiences as to make them hugely significant).
As for Zack's comment on whether the entry into the market should have been with a high end harp or a low end harp I would politely disagree and state that the decision has several facets related to market share, margin, etc. that would best be decided by those whose money is invested in the product. My thoughts on that would be that it would be far more likely to sell enough of the product initially at the high end working with a bit larger margin to facilitate perpetuation of the business end than it would be to sell a lot of them at a cheaper cost and to have a smaller margin. Startups are tricky and cash flow to promote furtherance of the business are probably the main drivers part of that decision. I'd guess you would likely be dealing with Brad Harrison's preference related to what his name is attached to as well. High end versus another middle of the road albeit professional harp.
There you go - there's my 4 cents. Sorry I couldn't make my post a little longer. This thread is going for the record I am sure. Peace to all and keep on harpin.'
Zack, I think you may not have read my post. At least, you didn't address or disect it. It doesn't matter, though. It's only a forum; they're like that sometimes. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
I did, by I didn't understand it fully, I think. Of course, I still stand by what I said. Snakes, you make an incredibly good point. When I meant going into the market, I should have stated such high end. Maybe $100 would have been a better entrance price. But I agree with you ONE HUNDRED PERCENT when you speak of making money back, and then receiving your profit!!!
Zack, I suppose our life experiences must differ greatly. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
Yeah, it pisses me off that the harp is perceived by many to be a toy. Even many music shop staff have this perception & it can be seen in the limited stock and low (toy) quality they exhibit.
I recently went in a talent quest where I played a medley of classical tunes on a diatonic. The judges kept referring to it as a 'mouth organ' and said that they had never heard it played properly before. They liked what I played but spoke jokingly about the 'mouth organ' almost inferring that it is easy to play.
I went Ok in the quest. However, had I been a violinist playing the same medley it would no doubt have been treated more seriously? The nub of it is IMHO that most harp players would put in more practice and playing time on their instrument than do other musicians? My harp is with me everywhere and at every conceivable opportunity I practice and play. This is not possible with most other instruments. In fact putting in the same time on another instrument would be difficult unless it were your profession.
I dont think that more expensive harps will change the perception as there will still be the cheapies and standards available. As musicians it is up to us to elevate the Harmonica into serious acceptance.
Not having played another instrument it is not possible for me to say how easy or difficult it is to play compared to other instruments. I have a belief that it is easy to play simple tunes on the Harmonica badly but extremly difficult to play it well. Unfortunately there are cowboys that promote 'learn blues harp in an hour'! If only it were so!
I might be wrong but.. the first time a harp player will be perceived as a "musician", will be the day that one of us (harp players) will rip out some sheet music, put it on some sort of stand, and start playing..... I'm pretty sure there isn't any other way... And when you are looking at your sheet music (or pretending to) it won't matter if you are playing a $1000 harp or a $3 cheapo, as long as you keep on looking at those pages and turn them over from time to time.... My guess is that playing "Yellow Rose of Texas" WITH sheet music will earn more "credibility" than playing Beethoven's 5th WITHOUT sheet music..... my 2 yen...... ---------- DutchBones Tube
I also agree with Dutchbones on the sheet music thing.
But I also think the harmonica would be taken more seriously (or at least be considered less annoying) if the harp were used as a comping/rhythm instrument more. Most people I know think the harp is nothing more than a one-show-pony. Imo too many bands use the harp exclusively for SOLO, SOLO, SOLO. A "real" instrument is versatile and can be played in all the elements of music: rhythm, lead, melody, ect.
i think it would become more serious if it got some radio play. or if some blues bands would make a music video. you never see blues music videos for some reason. but check out this song. its some south rapper that used stone fox chase in his beat. but the millions of people that heard this song will NEVER know its a harp song.
I've been reading this forum about the B Radical for a couple of days and finally got curious enough to look it up. $180.00 Would I want just one? No. Could I afford several? No. For $180.00 do I have any further interest in this harmonica? No.
I just re-read your 305th post, and, if you'll forgive the rebuke, I think you need to learn a little humility.
We don't all boast about ourselves on here. But, I do have a little experience: former piano teacher, school teacher (music), and guess what, Music Degree to boot?
Like many on here, I've been developing my skills and experience for as long as Doc Gussow has. I'm sure as hell not the greatest harp player on Earth, but I do know a thing or two about music.
Some of us have reached an age whereby we don't actually need being lectured to on self-respect.
Take the advice or not, I don't care. It's there for free if you want it. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
http://www.youtube.com/user/SlimHarpMick
Last Edited by on Jun 30, 2009 2:27 AM
Mc, fabulous, you have went down the path I want to go down. I am not being mean about it at all. I just think a lot of harmonica players ignore music theory. I respect you highly for your accomplishments and I may want to pick your mind on your degree and what it is. You did misunderstand my self-respect thing, and I did not mean it in a bad way.
@Zack and Mick. Over the last few years I've gotten the impression that harp players are often taken for musical illiterates. When I started playing I certainly was one. I've studied informally and now at least have a level of comfort. I've got a lot more to learn.
Perhaps Zack has a point that harp players should take themselves seriously, if they are serious about playing music, and learn some theory. It can only help. Personally, I've learned a lot from Mick's comments on this forum. There is a lot we can learn from each other here. It's hard to leave ego out of posts, so let's recognize that fact, but try not to build ourselves up by putting others down. If we can manage that we'll all continue to learn from each other. Not sure if this rambling makes any sense in the context of this topic.... Peace, brothers.
On people taking the harmonica seriously- It's my understanding that harmonica is taken much more seriously in Asia. There are classical quartets and harmonica orchestras. I've noticed it's rare to see two harmonica players in the same band. (I've been experimenting with doing some multi-track recordings of myself and you can do some neat things if you put different effects on each track. I think traditionally chromatic players get more respect than us diatonic guys.
I don't think I have ever heard anything diminutive said about the harmonica, granted I live in a city that prides itself on music and eclecticism. If anything I have encountered people who were surprised that I would play something other that blues, rock or country.
The underdog status of the instrument doesn't bother me at all, it's part of what brought me to it. I am a punk rocker and heart and don't give a rat's butt what people think.
If you rock you rock and if you don't you don't.
Our instrument is a lot more expensive, by the way, when you consider owning all keys plus some special tunings if you do that sort of thing.
Another thing, part (certainly not all or the majority) of what we call custom, other musicians such as guitarists, call tuning your instrument, as in couldn't every harp player benefit from being more hands on with their reeds, gapping etc.
I think custom harps are cool, but I think about back when I raced mountain bikes...most of the fastest guys had very simple, serviceable rigs, all the expensive titanium and carbon fiber shit tended to be consumed by the folks who were rich in cash and limited in skills and endurance.
In my world there is a point of diminishing returns with this kind of stuff, performance wise, not that that is the only criteria for value, just the only one I have come to care about.
I think the brad is way cool, but there is a massive world sitting right there in my bag of self-tweaked s20's that I have not come anywhere near exhausting, and these tin biscuits can change the world... ---------- http://www.youtube.com/1shanester
Harp did get a bunch of radio play with Blues Traveler in the 90's and then the majority of harmonica players went out and crucified John Popper for his style of play.
Players who are pushing the boundaries of the instrument are often met with the most mainstream resistance. The mainstream listener doesn't give a crap how good you are or aren't at anything so long as it is marketable and entertaining.
Paradigm shifts take in excess of 100 years. Think of just about any advancement in your field of study and then think about how hard it was to get across no matter how good of an idea it is. The B-Rad will be a blip in history that may lead to significant changes in the harp world (where a blip is huge), but we are in the minority of a minority instrument.
This forum seems to ask a lot of interesting questions, many of which maybe don't really matter and are just discussion for discussion sake (which is great for killing time, but we tend to look for black and white where there are shades of grey), but in this instance, try thinking a little deeper about what a "serious" instrument is and why it is important to you whether or not harp is judged as such.
Sorry if I sound negative in this post, as I am not trying to be, but there has been a lot of tension on the board lately and it seems to be all to serve ego or in vein.
So true about there being a "massive world" in your self tweaked harps etc. I think if harmonica comes of age it's not because of the B-radical but a shift in the players thinking about playing more than blues or folk or irish tunes on it. I am almost approaching a point where I can play all the scales relatively in tune and am doing this on a untouched stock marine band. Of course, I ordered a custom to follow the path of least resistance, but I think the harmonica, custom or stock, can be used to play all styles of music. Frankly, when I hear Howard Levy play jazz on harp, it IS inspiring but his tone is very bright and sometimes harsh to my ears. I think that playing jazz with a light airy tone and attack still needs to be explored with harmonica. I mean, there are SO many new places to go with harmonica, all of us should be excited to be the next charlier parker, or miles davis, of the harp.
I'd like to buy the world a Coke...anybody remember that jingle? That's how I feel about harmonica. If everyone in the world had to spend 30 minutes attempting to play a simple melody on harp then it would be the most respected instrument in the world, not because it's the most difficult to play, but because it's so deceiving.
Last week I was talking to a new employee who plays guitar. He bought a harp a while back assuming he'd easily play what he knew on guitar but gave up because "it's harder than it looks".
Last night I spent a hour giving lessons to my eight year old who's been asking to learn. I was showing him how to get single notes to play melodies. He eventually got some single notes but then told me it was to hard and asked if we could do some easier songs. I had to explain that the technique would be the same for all of them unless he just wanted to play chords like on his guitar. He decided to stick with guitar for now.
Six billion divided by a few thousand harp players. How long will it take us?
Tuckster stated: "I find that the vast majority of people wouldn't recognize a good harp player from a bad one." As a gigging musician I profoundly disagree. In fact it is often the naive members of the audience that become most impressed with the musicality of the harp (in my experience) if played musically (as in not too loud and part of a community of band members). I am a modestly talented player relative to many here but I do get paid to play NYC clubs. More often than not it is the singer (we have a modestly talented female front) and harp player (myself) that are singled out for our signatures even though the guitarist and drummer are superlative (and full time musicians). Why: the audience as usual resonates with the singer if soulful and affable. And they like the versatility of the harp: you can shimmer it like a duet with the singer, or swing it, or POG it when you want to confuse and arrest attention. I'm not talking about me per se but a decent, pretty sounding, effusive harp player will get positive attention and I say that empirically. ---------- Myspace: dennis moriarty
Dennis is too modest. His playing is awesome and the rest of his band is legit too. However, some of the reaction Dennis gets would be similar regardless of instrument he played. He is just a good musician with lots of taste.
But in general, I don't think too many people thought Neil Young was a bad harp player at the closing ceremonies last night. But by harp standards he was! ---------- Mike Fugazzi vocals/harmonica MySpace YouTube Twitter Facebook Album Ordering
PS for my post: I absolutely don't dis the b rad. Don't think this ragamuffin's face isn't jammed against the glass longing to touch feel and hold this work of craftsmanship and art.
I only say that I believe that a $30 harp is a serious instrument and has everything it takes to blow people's minds, and it is indeed a minority probably that could truly capitalize on the performance provided by a low production custom harp.
Our instrument's rep, or what we perceive of it is a double edged sword, it looks small and cheap, but when wielded masterfully, it is one of the most amazing, vocal, and tonally rich instruments on the planet!
There are all kinds of musicians, and the world would be a lesser place without the complete diversity that exists within the world of music. ---------- http://www.youtube.com/1shanester
I know guitar players who can only play in one key, maybe a couple others with a capo, and a few power chords. It's just as easy to play chords on a piano, at least in the key of C major/A minor. I think musicians are, as a group, insecure. Sure, you'll run into a classically trained musician who has played from sheet music for years, who has taken tons of theory, and all that, but I think for the most part, most instruments have people who just learn how to play and people who learn the theory too. Ask a room full of guitar players to give you the tonic in the key of Eb and some people will get it, but you'll see a fair share of blank faces too.
Theory is really useful, but there are lots of ways to play well without it. When you see someone who has played guitar for years suddenly pick up the harmonica and in no time they are playing pretty well, it's because they know theory and have learned to identify pitches, so lots of stuff transfers over. If you stick a harmonica in the mouth of a guy who just plays power chords, well, not so much.
Harmonica has been percieved as a toy for generations because of the way the average player tends to go about things and unfortuntely, I'm gonna be brutally honest about it, the fault clearly lies among many of the people who play them and the good pro players, even with the accolades they may get, often still get looked at by some as 20th rate musically.
Learning theory is something every player should be learning and they can more easily work their way out of mistakes wheras the average player, when they hit a bum note, or can't figure out how to work with changes other than 1-4-5, be it blues, country, or anything else, it's impossible, especially in open jams, NOT to see the look of a deer in the headlights on their faces.
Look at how many times at open jams you see harp players who have to have their key/position charts up there with them on the bandstand, and they ALL should have these things memorized BEFORE they hit the bandstand, and if you need that chart with you, you clearly aren't ready to be on the bandstand because you should know that stuff COLD, no excuses.
I've had some pros tell me the first thing they think of when some harp player asks them if they could sit in with them is this:
"Oh God! Here comes another drunk ass hole that thinks he's a musician just because he blows a little harp and can bend a note on it."
Do you think I'm kidding anyone here??? Trust me, I assure you that I'm not in the least, just telling the truth and unfortunately, what makes things worse is that the number of harp players who do just about everything that falls into the negative stereotypes people have about the instrument and the people who play them is ENORMOUS!!!!! What makes it worse, these same people have absolutely no clue that each player like that HURTS the reputation of every harp player around, including good and great players as well.
The B-Rad is kinda more along the lines of the harmonica version of buying a top of the line Martin acoustic guitar, and anyone who knows guitars will tell you that a Martin sets a high standard.
Now will this ever make the harmonica a more serious instrument or instrument to be taken more seriously?? Truthfully, don't bet on it in a hundred lifetimes until the overall quality of the playing of the average player, and a more improved attitude towards things steps up tremendously.
Look at it this way, I've seen crowds go totally gaga over a solo by a really run of the mill guitar player at least 1000 times more often than crowds going crazy over a solo by a truly great harp player, regardless of the genre being played.
Another thin, for every "air harp player" you see in a crowd, you're most likely gonna see at least 10 "air guitar players" for every air harp player you'll ever see and that's the truth.
Until the average player steps up their game, this is what harp players are gonna constantly have to deal with, like it or not, because unfortunately, the average player too often fulfills the negative stereotype as being the dumbest musician on the bandstand far too often, and until they step up their game, it's never gonna go away anytime soon.
---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
To BBQ Bob's point... There's a local player (hobbyist) whose playing I quite like - he's no pro, but I admire his phrasing a great deal. Was very surprised to learn, two weeks ago, that he didn't know how many bends were on the 3-hole draw reed, and what notes he would get with them. Especially since he also plays guitar, I was pretty surprised.
-------------------- Murray. The smartist formerly known as Elwood.
I've just re-read the thread and had a few thoughts I wanted to share:
First random thought: Way back up near the top, Zack talked about Howard, Chris, Michael, Adam and Jason getting heaps of respect as musicians. Well maybe... but surely the bulk of that respect is only coming from other harp players (me included - I'm not knocking any of their accomplishments) Their music, brilliant though it is, sadly does not have the wider public recognition it deserves.
Try it! Ask someone, preferably not a big blues aficionado, to name a guitarist - Clapton, Hendrix, George Harrison, Keith Richards - household names. Even people who don't like or listen to their music know who they are.
That was 62 years ago. I bet they thought the harmonica was coming of age back then too. (Although I believe Adler himself was somewhat patronising of the diatonic "Mouth Organ".)
Second random thought: The B-Radical: I do want one, I want to play one to see what the deal is, but... It is a custom. It isn't a stock harp. This is a harmonica built to spec and then given the full customisation reed work. Unlike a stock harp, I'm sure every B-Rad is being setup properly before it leaves the workshop. Building to Brad's own design means eliminating all the design flaws of the typical customisers choice: the Marine Band. Forget the nails, forget the covers, forget the comb - just go to town on the reeds. Genius idea.
Not surprisingly then it is priced in line with other top customs and not in-between the high end stocks (1847s, Manjis etc...) and a custom. Right now it is just another choice for the serious player who wants a custom harp. I doubt it is going to gain any attention from people who weren't already in that small, niche market. The only market it will shake up is the custom market.
Random thought 3: Chromaticism - impressive and challenging though it might be ultimately means nothing to the overwhelming majority of your audience. I'm not an overblow knocker - I like the style and that's where my woodshed efforts are right now. I just know that the good folk who go to watch a band probably don't know the difference between a diatonic and a chromatic, let alone any of the other nonsense that we endlessly debate and dissect. TB vs LP means nothing to anyone who doesn't play. Think you can tell the difference? Maybe. Think your audience can? probably not. Think they care? no. Think they even know what the hell it means? no. Same goes for wood vs. plastic, JI vs. ET. Outside of our own, isolated, self-obsessed little internet community it all boils down to "can I dance to it"
I find myself nodding along with many points BBQBob has made. I for one am not a good player and would really not seek exposure much outside a circle of peers. I don't want to play in a band, but I would like to be a better player. But, they all say to become good then a part of the learning process is to put yourself out there and join a group.
The average audience would I believe not be able to tell a good harp player from a bad one is a point Tuckster made that I agree with. And if you happen to be an average non musician that has no appreciation for the blues then even a great blues harp player might not register. But, conversely a beginner playing a Bob Dylan melody could be judged by an audience to be a really good player.
On the point of Harmonicas being a serious instrument I think that the perception of the public is that the Chromatic is the serious instrument as this is the one seen in the hands of classical & jazz masters. The diatonic is perceived as a toy because IMHO most music stores have stacks of real cheapies on display and only the odd mismatch of keys in Sp20s or LOs in stock. And staff in most music stores don't understand the instrument.
Time, and more importantly the behaviour of harp players will bring about a change in how the public & other musicians see us. Some years back I went in a national competition of harp players & some 15 of us competed. The majority of the players were great guys and most were good players & a friendly helpful group. The person who won was certainly an able player but an absolute arsehole of a person in the way he related to others with his shitty attitude and demeanour. He was so full of himself and IMHO a dreadful choice as a winner because he would only be another bad ambassador for the harp. No, this is not an observation of a sore loser as I was well down the line in contention.
We have to be aware that it's not always our harp playing that is being judged.
Damn, no I missed him Nick. I do like Neil Young. OK, leave it 6 months and then try my test. (actually I think Adler might top the poll)
Did you check out that link? Imagine an ego the likes of Adler having to stand in front of a panel of "experts" to decide whether he played a toy or an instrument: whether he was a musician or an entertainer. And that's the 'legitimate' chromatic harp we're talking about!
@MichaelAndrewLo: Yeah, I'm totally with you on that, I think jazz is a huge world and there is tons of room for many approaches and sounds and I hope many are coming! I consider jazz a bit beyond me right now although, I have noodled a bit with "Girl from Ipanema" and "My Funny Valentine"!
@all: You know, I think if you put a corn cobber next to Adam Gussow even Larry, Daryl and Daryl could tell the difference. Don't completely underestimate the "roving masses of grazing hack", after all, who are you playing for? It certainly doesn't have to be them, but I have to admit I care a little bit about what they think.
If popularity is your mission, then your goal is to make a hit song, pure and simple, I refuse to believe that the instrument itself is what's in the way. And, there are many other reasons to play music.
As far as being a bluesman looking to expand the reach and notoriety of the harp, the name of this forum is your challenge. How are you going to craft the form to have it expand in relevance and popularity right now? ---------- http://www.youtube.com/1shanester
This is a very interesting thread--and I don't have much to add to these insightful and intelligent remarks--but I would like to point out that, in my experience, people LOVE the sound of the harp!
Maybe they think the player is just a dumbfuck and he's playing a kazoo or something--but they do like the sound that comes out of the harp.
When I'm out busking, I play guitar and sing most of the time--and I do OK. When I add harp--the audience picks up sharply and the tips flow better.
Now--I'm pretty average to poor at harp--but that sound sure does a good job of drawing them in--and, once I have their money--I don't really care if they go home thinking it would be nice if old Ray wasn't such a dumb fuck--playing around with those musical toys and shit. . .
"Another thin, for every "air harp player" you see in a crowd, you're most likely gonna see at least 10 "air guitar players" for every air harp player you'll ever see and that's the truth."
Umm...I think that has to do with the fact that it's pretty hard to "play air harmonica" and not look like a complete idiot. Not that playing air guitar makes you look cool, but it's not quite as conspicous, and is a little more "socially acceptable".
I went to the director of the music school a short while ago. I know they organise the music classes for the nearby public schools. So, I pitched him the idea to teach blues harp in school... He told me: "Not to offend you..." and he obviously tried not to "... but the harp is simply too small." I couldn't believe it! What has the size to do with anything? The recorder is small... I know that he actually teaches accordeon, so that could be the reason. But do you want the kids carry 10kg to music classes? If anything size is THE advantage... I was dissappointed at such ignorance.
---------- germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
Seems to me it would take a breakthrough, highly-skilled artist to change the perception of the harp. Who were the last to gain mass appeal -- The Harmonicats? Popper was close, but not quite.
The tin sandwich has essentially been a toy since the start -- something a cowboy could whip out of his holster and butcher Oh Susannah with in front of the campfire. Dylan and Young (and Lennon, Joel, Tyler, and Daltry) showed the world you could spend $10, practice for 30 minutes and replicate their sound. Blues isn't really 'mainstream', so I doubt the breakthrough comes from there.
Someone mentioned the popularity in Asia, and the fact that it is taken much more seriously there. I think that's a start, but it will still take a breakthrough into less-stereotypical harp and/or more'popular' music before it's taken seriously. Powers and Levy seem to me to be the best shot at that.
I think it might be a good question to ask- do you really want the harmonica treated like a serious instrument? I mean if you can really play it can work to your advantage. Whip out the toy instrument and play it like a pro and you've really got something.
